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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > E90 Problem Tried to many solutions need help



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      05-15-2012, 07:34 PM   #23
GeorgeSorfazian
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KFRAZIE1 > Hello..

I have a got a new key from the dealer same problem...

New CAS Module too... i just replaced the JBE Module Box 10 mins ago... and DID the same EXACT Problem car wont crank ...


SO I HAVE AN UPDATE \/ \/ Hopefully You Guys Might Determine Something here

Still car not starting so i quickly took the air cleaner
box & boot out and the power box under the
throttle body where i located the power wire that goes to the starter solenoid .. and has 11.5 V going to the starter when trying to crank the car ...

so this shows that POWER is going to the STARTER....
this mean ONLY one thing.... the STARTER isnt working correctly! right???
But common i changed ((( 3 ))) Starters ..... 2 Bosch rebuilt and 1 from the Dealer

Here is the results :

Battery Voltage 13.4V
Starter Solenoid Positive Cable 11.5V
Starter Not Cranking
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      05-15-2012, 08:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeSorfazian View Post
KFRAZIE1 > Hello..

I have a got a new key from the dealer same problem...

New CAS Module too... i just replaced the JBE Module Box 10 mins ago... and DID the same EXACT Problem car wont crank ...


SO I HAVE AN UPDATE \/ \/ Hopefully You Guys Might Determine Something here

Still car not starting so i quickly took the air cleaner
box & boot out and the power box under the
throttle body where i located the power wire that goes to the starter solenoid .. and has 11.5 V going to the starter when trying to crank the car ...

so this shows that POWER is going to the STARTER....
this mean ONLY one thing.... the STARTER isnt working correctly! right???
But common i changed ((( 3 ))) Starters ..... 2 Bosch rebuilt and 1 from the Dealer

Here is the results :

Battery Voltage 13.4V
Starter Solenoid Positive Cable 11.5V
Starter Not Cranking
Solenoid voltage is suppose to be around 12.6 volts (right from battery) but i think the difference is negligible. Is it possible there is a problem with the connector from the CAS to the solenoid? The CAS connection is right below the main lead going to the solenoid.

It's odd that your getting power to the starter and its not starting. If this is the 3rd starter you've put in there I find it hard to be the starter. I feel like it is an auxiliary system that supports the starter.

Maybe the problem lies with the solenoid and not the starter; however, this manual says if voltage is present and there's no other visible wiring faults the problem is most likely the starter.

Also, is this an auto or manual tranny?

Any other codes on the scanner?
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Last edited by kfrazie1; 05-15-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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      05-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #25
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I really hope you get to the bottom of this George, must be annoying as hell and costing you a fortune...
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      06-05-2012, 05:28 PM   #26
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Any progress towards a permanent fix?
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      06-08-2012, 11:49 PM   #27
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any updates?
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      06-11-2012, 11:51 PM   #28
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George,

I feel your problem and have the same thing on my 650i. It kills me that it just doesn't start sometimes. Here is what I do to get it to start. I turn off the car, wiggle the sterring column, (I associated it to the steering wheel when I firts got the car because it was more prevelent when I woudl pull on the steering wheel to exit the car. I stopped doing that and it stopped not starting) anyway. I exit the car, arm it(even disable bluetooth on my phone. I walk far enough away from the car to avoid any wirless communication. I wait about 2- 10 minutes then walk back to the car get in and she usually starts right up. I have the same error codes as you do from DIS. It is killing me and she always does it at the oddest times. There is a recall on my cars' battery connection cable. I'm hoping that this may remedy the issue.

One the started having voltage but not cranking. It sounds like the starter is not grounded(connected to the negative) I personally have not looked at my starter, but if the connection to the started is just a hot+ wire then it depends on the connection to the metal of the car for the ground(-). Is this the case or does the starter have a + and - connection?

I hope to figure this out soon. I love my car but hate this.
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      07-13-2012, 02:28 PM   #29
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I have the same problem with my '07 328xi. The car just wouldn't start no matter what I do. I'm about to replace the starter in the process of debugging the issue. I have similar voltage on my starter and didn't see obvious conection/wiring issues. One thing that crossed my mind is BST. I'm thinking of busting the terminal and bypassing the charge so that cable is permanently connected to the B+.
Also does anyone know the positions of grounding wires? There is one just below the jump point, but are there others?
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      07-13-2012, 05:07 PM   #30
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Now that you have ruled most of the "normal" electrical failures, you are left with what could be a computer error. The error code stored about Canbus registration errors could be the sign that the canbus controler is shot. If that is the case, the new CAS you have installed could fail to give the ok signal to your ECU.

Probably very expensive to change the canbus controler, no idea to check the hypothesis. Sorry it doesn't help much.
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      11-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #31
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Hi! I had the same problem. I researched that voltage between solenoid's positive wire and engine (ground) was only 7V in the moment of start, so, starter didn't crank since there was too less power to turn on the solenoid. Then I researched that voltage between solenoid's positive wire and automobile body (main ground) was 9.5V in the moment of start. At that moment I realized that problem was in grounding wire between automobile body and engine. I connected automobile body with engine with additional wire and engin started immediately.
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      03-20-2014, 07:11 PM   #32
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I'm having the same problem. Was there ever a solution for this? My car will not crank or turn over what so ever. I can push start my vehicle by popping the clutch and it drives perfectly fine. I have replaced the starter twice, starter ground cable, clutch pedal switch, New OEM battery and programmed at dealer and replaced key FOB battery. I'm leaning towards the CAS, but I really don't want to waste money. I also disconnected the IBS to see if car would start and still no luck. I do have AllData and one thing I read someone can maybe help me do is to reset the CAS and DME to the initial code value. Here is what AllData says:

IMPORTANT:
It is not possible to replace the DME/DDE or CAS control units for test purposes.
In rare cases, it is possible that the variable codes in both control units deviate from each other. In these cases, it is possible to reset both codes to the initial value via the service function 'DME(DDE) - CAS matching' (EWS matching).
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      04-14-2014, 07:56 PM   #33
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bump same issue here
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      11-25-2014, 01:47 PM   #34
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Same Problem but different....

As a mechanic I run into issues with plenty 3series most the time the issues with no start or weak starting is the ground cable that comes from the engine to the body ground. If you take jumper cables and connect them to the engine(metal parts) to the chassis of the car and try and start it then, If it starts fine everytime then its your ground wire. Ive seen some rusted, half ripped and all kinds of ways smh so many ppl change starters and it doesnt fix anything. That should be the first thing you check before wasting your money on starters. My issue tho is that only the brake and driver airbag light(red) comes on nothing else. Once I figure out the issue ill be sure to let you guys know. Any suggestions would help!!!!
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      11-15-2015, 08:43 PM   #35
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Did any of you guys ever fix your issue? I'm still having it after all this time. Intended up rigging up my own start button. I took wore from the positive terminal in the bay and some wire from the excite wire on the starter and mine starts like that. If intry to use the factory start button it just gives me a thud like it wants tobstart. Not a click but I thoud as if the starter doesn't sound strong enough to turn the engine. However with my rigged up worijf its fine and turns right over. I replaced my starter twice. A mechanic checked the voltage for me from the other wire onnrhe starter that leads into the cas and said it was reading very low.
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      12-17-2015, 02:58 PM   #36
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E82 here, but all parts are same as E90. Ran into the no start issue as a surprise. Would load up the starter, but not enough to turn over. Found the solenoid cable and hot wired 12v directly to it using a classic remote start setup. Ends up after tracing the wiring, the cable runs from the solenoid straight to the CAS. There are two connectors along the way, one under the charge pipe (for N55) and another in the ECU white box on the passenger side of the engine bay. The trigger start is meant to be temporary, but thanks to this thread I realized you could do it.

I took the CAS out of the car and started inspecting it. Found a burnt wire line that ran under the surface mount starter relay (G8FE-1AF-SL1). Going to try and repair it to see if the broken line is indeed causing the issue. Without a schematic, it's just a guess.

I have a used unit coming just in case. Then it'll be time to figure out how to either clone the old with the new or how to add my keys to the new and sync it with the DME. Seems like a lot more work than fixing a wire.
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Last edited by Chris S.; 12-17-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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      12-17-2015, 03:05 PM   #37
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Just curious, did you check the grounds on the engine?
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      12-17-2015, 03:12 PM   #38
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Ground wire was bad prior to this happening. I suspect the bad ground could have caused some excessive load on the circuit. It was several weeks between replacing the ground wire to the when the CAS wasn't providing enough voltage. Well, what I assume to be not enough voltage. I'd be surprised if the starter solenoid is meant to run off 5 volts.
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      12-17-2015, 03:14 PM   #39
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As a test, I connected PIN 21 (12 volt input for the CAS) to Pin 22 (CAS output to the solenoid) and no issues cranking over. Will report back on the wire... it's hidden well. It was a pain in the a$$ to get the photo under the relay.
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      12-17-2015, 03:19 PM   #40
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This attached PDF may be helpful for folks working with the CAS.
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File Type: pdf SBT CAS control unit E60 E61 E63 E62 E70 E81 E87 E90 E91.pdf (430.6 KB, 1410 views)
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      12-20-2015, 03:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
I have a used unit coming just in case. Then it'll be time to figure out how to either clone the old with the new or how to add my keys to the new and sync it with the DME. Seems like a lot more work than fixing a wire.
Yes, it is. Your staring down a deep, dark rabbit hole. The car will not start with the used CAS module because the ISN stored in the DME doesn't match.

The easiest solution if you need to install a used CAS is to find a local shop with the AutoHex II scan tool. They will be able to read the ISN from your DME and write it to the used CAS module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
This attached PDF may be helpful for folks working with the CAS.
Thanks for posting this.
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      12-21-2015, 04:09 PM   #42
Chris S.
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Did some circuit repair which didn't resolve the issue with the CAS board. Did some more tracing and the starter relay has 12 v coming in, but only peaks at 6 volts on the outbound side, and only for a split-second.

The problem could very well be somewhere else, since it seems the relay triggers for just a split-second, verses staying closed until ignition. Manually holding the circuit closed (jumping 21 to 22) spins the starter and the engine fires up.

I'm not sure if replacing the CAS will fix anything, but it will definitely make me feel better since I saw overload damage on it.

The more I dig, the more I see that I should follow your advice and find a shop that has an AutoHex II.

I have a blank CAS coming (no VIN or keys) from someone else who started down this route, but found their problem was in the ground wire.

Anyone know a shop in Houston that is capable of this?
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      12-21-2015, 04:42 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris S. View Post
Did some circuit repair which didn't resolve the issue with the CAS board. Did some more tracing and the starter relay has 12 v coming in, but only peaks at 6 volts on the outbound side, and only for a split-second.

The problem could very well be somewhere else, since it seems the relay triggers for just a split-second, verses staying closed until ignition. Manually holding the circuit closed (jumping 21 to 22) spins the starter and the engine fires up.

I'm not sure if replacing the CAS will fix anything, but it will definitely make me feel better since I saw overload damage on it.

The more I dig, the more I see that I should follow your advice and find a shop that has an AutoHex II.

I have a blank CAS coming (no VIN or keys) from someone else who started down this route, but found their problem was in the ground wire.

Anyone know a shop in Houston that is capable of this?
I suggest pinging Alex at ABR (Advanced BMW Repair.) If he doesn't have the ability, perhaps he can refer you to someone local that can help. In addition to AutoHex II, I believe that BMW-Explorer can also do it.

If you can't find someone local, it may be possible to get a dump from your CAS and write it to the used one with a R270 BDM programmer.

Best of luck and let us know how things work out.
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      01-12-2016, 11:15 AM   #44
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I'm having the same problem. Any help?

I'm having the same issue. I bought my 335i wrecked but repaired everything mechanical and electrical. new starter. new bst. new key fob. new and great battery. checked all fuses. checked all relays. I'm having codes.
Engine/Motor
Generator, communication: Bus error. code: 2E98,

Immobilizer System:
Cas
Driver KL50L kS
Code: A0C1
Engine starter faulty operation
Code: A0B4


The car ONLY turns over and starts when its being boosted from the front engine bay terminals. When I checked the voltage on the battery while it was running it decreased to 11 volts when in reality it's suppose to increase between 13-14. The car will not stay running however, it eventually dies a few minutes later. Any suggestions?
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