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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Raced another FBO 335i Last Night: Cobb VS JB4 - Video Inside



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      07-29-2012, 10:44 AM   #1
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Raced another FBO 335i Last Night: Cobb VS JB4 - Video Inside

Raced a friends FBO 335i last night (member "Stucks" here on e90post). Cars are pretty much identical except I have 6MT and Stucks has 6AT. Also, the tune is different. I am Cobb Tuned (Protuned by Jake aka FlyLow335i) and Stucks is JB4 Tuned (Map 5). His car pulls away when I shift from 2nd to 3rd and increases the gap when I shift from 3rd to 4th. The lesson here is that I need to shift FASTER next time

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2007 BMW 335i (6MT): Cobb Protune, Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85. This is the camera car.

VS.

2008 BMW 335i (6AT): JB4 Tuned (Map 5), Full Bult On, No Meth, Stock OEM Exhaust, running an 80/20 mix of 93/E85.


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      07-29-2012, 10:49 AM   #2
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Ya, it definitely appears he is getting you at the shifts. It also seems you're taking yours to redline where you may be losing some ground instead of short shifting at 6-6.5k rpms.

Good race either way.
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      07-29-2012, 10:55 AM   #3
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yeah those shifts lose you alot of ground.
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      07-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #4
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Yea I thought my shifts were decent but I guess I will have to work on that.
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      07-29-2012, 11:15 AM   #5
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install a clutch stop... its cheap and helps alot with quicker shifts
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      07-29-2012, 11:16 AM   #6
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Just curious, is your car bogging between shifts? Also, from what I've learned with racing other N54's that were AT's and DCT, the only way you will keep up is from 3rd gear 60 roll. The 2-3 shift kills the 6mt no matter how fast you shift. The gear spread is too large, and if you do shift fast you'll just bog.
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      07-29-2012, 11:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335i View Post
install a clutch stop... its cheap and helps alot with quicker shifts
I have BMS clutch stop, BMS modified clutch valve, and B&M short shifter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostAddict View Post
Just curious, is your car bogging between shifts? Also, from what I've learned with racing other N54's that were AT's and DCT, the only way you will keep up is from 3rd gear 60 roll. The 2-3 shift kills the 6mt no matter how fast you shift. The gear spread is too large, and if you do shift fast you'll just bog.
I agree with you that the 6MT's do better from a 60 roll. When we do another run, we will do a 60 roll. As for bogging, no I don't think so.
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      07-29-2012, 11:30 AM   #8
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That was a good video, though I am not surprised by the outcome. 6AT definitely has the advantage with its shorter gearing compared to 6MT, but starting at 60mph would definitely be a closer match.
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      07-29-2012, 11:38 AM   #9
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Are both of you tuned for the blend of fuel that your running? I wonder what would have happened if he brake boosted the auto? Makes me happy since I own one...
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      07-29-2012, 11:42 AM   #10
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well obviously the jb4 is on map 5 which is autotune to whatever octane, yadda yadda they have.

cobb is pro tuned to im assuming that is also tuned for it.
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      07-29-2012, 12:01 PM   #11
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Ouch. Did jake etune or dynotune you?
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      07-29-2012, 12:22 PM   #12
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JB4 > Cobb...

Not shifting excuse...
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      07-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #13
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It's the shift killing the race -- The car clearly has a "delay" as Laid_Black has to cross the gate going from 2nd to 3rd gear (~39 seconds into the video).

Obviously 2 cars with the same mods & transmissions (b/c of the gearing difference) would give the best representation of which tune can give more. BUT at the end of the day, who really cares though (unless you're tracking your car)

Be Safe, Go Fast & Have Fun
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      07-29-2012, 12:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6MTE92 View Post
Ouch. Did jake etune or dynotune you?
Right now he is etuning, but since he is local, he will set up a dyno day in the near future for locals to compare numbers between OTS maps and the custom map.

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Originally Posted by 91Octane View Post
JB4 > Cobb...

Not shifting excuse...
How so? Please explain without turning this into a tuning war.
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      07-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #15
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JB4 FTW
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      07-29-2012, 12:41 PM   #16
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The auto 335i's also have more drivetrain loss than the 6mt 335i's, don't they?

Cool race and quick cars!
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      07-29-2012, 12:43 PM   #17
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Both tunes are good. No tune is "ftw" lol.
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      07-29-2012, 12:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stucks View Post
The auto 335i's also have more drivetrain loss than the 6mt 335i's, don't they?

Cool race and quick cars!
not necessarily. Its just that autos do not have to lift and stays in boost between shifts.
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      07-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
not necessarily. Its just that autos do not have to lift and stays in boost between shifts.
So the auto transmission car with a torque converter does not have more drivetrain loss than a manual trans car of the exact same type? Interesting.
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      07-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #20
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Close your windows and race again you will see the difference
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      07-29-2012, 01:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stucks View Post
So the auto transmission car with a torque converter does not have more drivetrain loss than a manual trans car of the exact same type? Interesting.
after i think 10mph torque converter locks up. 335i's are one of a couple cars that automatics are actually faster then the manual counterparts.

even ppk give more power and torque for automatic cars.

ive also raced a FBO 135 (6mt) with a tune-intake e90(6at) and beat him. and only beat him on the shifts.
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      07-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
335i's are one of a couple cars that automatics are actually faster then the manual counterparts.
This is for the reasons you have already listed (holding boost through shifts and the ability to launch easier from a dead stop.)

The autos still put down less power though, when compared to 6mt cars. From a roll into triple digit speeds, if shifted quick enough, the 6mt has better gearing for top end
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