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      08-07-2012, 12:01 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Nick.CBR View Post
I wonder if M cars are built in Germany regardless? Is the X5M built in Germany or the US?
The X5M, X6M, X5, X6, and X3 are all built in the US. I believe some of the engines are built in Germany and shipped over for final production though.
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      08-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
To all the bottom-liners: I get it, I really do. But, to many of us that buy these cars, one of the prime reasons for buying is that it is made in Germany, by Germans. Whether or not that makes a statistically significant, measurable difference in quality is irrelevant if you've lost the perception thereof.
Why does everyone assume the factory workers in Germany are all German? There are a lot of immigrants working in various countries throughout Europe just like there are a lot of immigrants from Mexico working in the US.
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      08-07-2012, 12:29 PM   #113
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The question isn't about cultures and the ability for Mexico to produce quality BMW's.

The question is how long will it take for the BMW Mexico plant to get their process and product quality up-to-snuff.

The best regional option on the quality side would have been to produce it in Spartanburg, not because it's US and US workers are that much better, but the facility's processes and supplier base are well established to work with BMW. The communication is working well enough to produce some of the most expensive and popular vehicles in BMW's lineup (X5/X6M). The E70 in general has been a relative gem regarding Quality, especially the later year models (09+). Having this production capability cascade down to the next 3 series would not be a bad thing...

Although many suppliers will be shared between the two plants, there are some components/systems that will be newly sourced out of Mexico (suppliers with facilities in both US and Mexico).

All-in-all, the people of Mexico are capable of producing quality BMW vehicles. The quality standards that will be upheld will depend on BMW Corporate's ability to manage the new facility and ramp up the production location. Dealing with different cultures (especially new ones) is a challenge, and the new facility will definitely be going thru some growing pains.
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      08-07-2012, 02:12 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
Thanks for that. Let me present a few "I didn´t know they were Mexican" companies:

Owned by BIMBO (the largest bread manufacturer in the world - yep it´s Mexican):

- Sara Lee
- Mrs Bairds
- Arnold
- Brownberry
- Earth Grains
- Oroweat
- Ball Park

Owned by Comex (a 2 billion+ paint manufacturer):

- Color Wheel Paint
- Frazee Paint
- Kwal Paint
- Parker Paint
- General Paint (Canada)

Owned by Cemex (2nd largest cement manufacturer in the world):

- Brikset
- Dixie
- RichMortar
- RichColor
- Citadel

- America Movil (a mexican cellular/phone carrier) has 313 million subscribers, 4th largest in the world, more wireless subscribers that AT&T and Verizon combined.

And of course the world´s richest man is mexican. Carlos Slim is richer than Buffet & Gates. (Admittedly, this last data point isn´t necessarily a positive, but still.)

I have the utmost respect for the U.S. I am cheering for you guys to beat the Chinese in the current Olympics. I think that the Mars landing last night stands as probably the greatest engineering achievement of all time. Now, THAT is something that only the U.S. can pull off.

But we Mexicans definitely can build a quality BMW.

And *some* of the comments here are incredibly racist, frustrating and plain stupid.

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      08-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Bottom line is we pay more for a 3 series because it's a German premium product
Next thing you know is it will be assembled in Mexico
And the next m3 will basically use a souped up 335is engine
And yet I'm expected to pay a hefty premium?
Gtf outta here
I'll take my money elsewhere

I've tried 2 cars made in Mexico
And they both sucked
So I'd be a fool to think the next one will be any good

You all are free to gamble with your money, to inflate the already healthy profits of BMW with your hard earned cash

I'd rather pay for something I know is well made
And before you all start with your "you're a racist crap"
My brother owns a BMW assembled by BMW in Egypt
My best friend owns the same car, but assembled in Germany
One has been nothing but problems
And the other (German) has been bullet proof
So it's not that I'm anti Mexican
Im anti buying a German car that's not made in Germany
I got a US built X3 for my wife
And while it's been pretty reliable
I notice a lot of issues with fit and finish compared to my M3
One looks cheaply made
One looks like the guy making actually cared about what he was doing
WOW!! this is one of the must stupid comments that I see from this thread.
Just because one or two people had issues with the cars out of thousands of cars build in Mexico you won't buy a car build in Mexico.

So, if BMW decides to swap engines from the 3 series to the M series, this is a Mexican problem? This is ridiculous, like must of the comments here.

For the ones saying they won't buy any more BMWs, that's music to my hears and good news for the rest of us that we are real BMW enthusiast.
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      08-07-2012, 03:00 PM   #116
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this thread has me thinking about some south park episodes
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      08-07-2012, 03:02 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatr1s View Post
WOW!! this is one of the must stupid comments that I see from this thread.
Just because one or two people had issues with the cars out of thousands of cars build in Mexico you won't buy a car build in Mexico.

So, if BMW decides to swap engines from the 3 series to the M series, this is a Mexican problem? This is ridiculous, like must of the comments here.

For the ones saying they won't buy any more BMWs, that's music to my hears and good news for the rest of us that we are real BMW enthusiast.
can't help it if you saw that as stupid, might be on your end

never said that using a 3 series engine in the M3 was a mexican problem
go back and re-read what i said, without being a smart-ass, and you might understand what i was trying to say.

and its music to your ears not hears

so real BMW enthusiasts like mexican made BMWs?
that's funny
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      08-07-2012, 03:07 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATS View Post
If BMW builds a plant in Mexico (or anywhere else for that matter), it will have the same robots, production and quality processes that they have at their plants in Germany. In fact, being a brand new plant, it'll have newer robots than the ones they have in Germany.
i am sure someone said the same thing when VW built their plant in Mexico

the fiat 500, which is made in mexico for the US market, is also made in Europe for the european market, there is a difference in quality
i've owned the mexican built one
and i have ridden in a european built one many times
their is a tangible difference in quality
I would assume the difference is in the quality control

there is a reason why people pay a premium for german made cars
vs korean/japanese made cars that have better options and are cheaper
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      08-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #119
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Plenty of great, reliable cars are assembled in Mexico.

BMW will do it right. The Mexican BMWs will probably be better than the crap they build here in the US (their SUVs).
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      08-07-2012, 03:16 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
there is a reason why people pay a premium for german made cars
vs korean/japanese made cars that have better options and are cheaper
Status symbol??
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      08-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
so real BMW enthusiasts like mexican made BMWs?
that's funny
You think BMWs are even remotely "German" cars today? That's so cute. BMWs marketing department sure is good.
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      08-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #122
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Plenty of great, reliable cars are assembled in Mexico.

BMW will do it right. The Mexican BMWs will probably be better than the crap they build here in the US (their SUVs).
Can't be much worse. The only BMW I ever owned in the past was a 2001 M Roadster built in SC and it was the most unreliable car I've ever owned, by far.
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      08-07-2012, 04:01 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatr1s View Post
WOW!! this is one of the must stupid comments that I see from this thread.
Just because one or two people had issues with the cars out of thousands of cars build in Mexico you won't buy a car build in Mexico.

So, if BMW decides to swap engines from the 3 series to the M series, this is a Mexican problem? This is ridiculous, like must of the comments here.

For the ones saying they won't buy any more BMWs, that's music to my hears and good news for the rest of us that we are real BMW enthusiast.
+1
And the X3 has a cheap interior because it's an X3 not a Range Rover.
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      08-07-2012, 04:59 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beyu View Post
American car owner: U.S. assembled only
Reality: Made in Mexico
Japanese car owner: Japan assembled only
Reality: Made in U.S.
European car owner: Germany assembled only
Reality: Made in U.S., South Africa, South America

It doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on in terms of car ownership, people just like a false sense of quality knowing that their car was produced in the car brand's country of origin. It's not like BMW is contracting local factories in Mexico in order to build their 1 & 3-series where they make cars on one side of the factory and produce meth & cocaine on the other; BMW is pumping 100s of millions into building a new plant. If the quality of the cars in Mexico are poor then that's BMW's fault as even without strict government regulation if BMW wishes to market their cars as being upmarket and charge a premium price for it then they need to self regulate.

PS: Why does the U.S. need factory jobs more than Mexico? Why should BMW build another plant in the U.S.? BMW has absolutely no obligation to the U.S. nor should BMW give American workers preference over people in other countries. This thread is one bad comment away from "those dirty <insert people of X country> took our jobs."
Yup, i must be a real jerk to want a company to create good paying jobs in the country in which they sell that product to. WE need to produce things. Otherwise in a service economy well sell each other a cup of coffee and a hamburger and can't afford a 60K plus car. Has white guilt/anti-west become so maintream that we can't even look after own own counties best interest? YES I want those good jobs here, YES I'm looking after my own interest. Just like the guy from Mexico on here. He wants those jobs for his people.

I provide 35 combat vets good paying jobs. Why not replace them with cheap foriegn labor and an extra 250K in my pocket. Henry Ford said it best.
Provide the best possible wage so his people could afford to buy his cars. BMW is a for profit business, so I respect their right to do as they please. Having said that this will impact my car buying decision. I canceled an order for a TTRS for same reason. Audi building cars for N. American market in mexico instead of here.
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      08-07-2012, 05:44 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
Yup, i must be a real jerk to want a company to create good paying jobs in the country in which they sell that product to. WE need to produce things. Otherwise in a service economy well sell each other a cup of coffee and a hamburger and can't afford a 60K plus car. Has white guilt/anti-west become so maintream that we can't even look after own own counties best interest? YES I want those good jobs here, YES I'm looking after my own interest. Just like the guy from Mexico on here. He wants those jobs for his people.

I provide 35 combat vets good paying jobs. Why not replace them with cheap foriegn labor and an extra 250K in my pocket. Henry Ford said it best.
Provide the best possible wage so his people could afford to buy his cars. BMW is a for profit business, so I respect their right to do as they please. Having said that this will impact my car buying decision. I canceled an order for a TTRS for same reason. Audi building cars for N. American market in mexico instead of here.
Templar, I understand your position here. However, trade is not a zero sum game. Mexico has gradually been building up a comparative advantage in car building. It is not only the wages (which have been rising) but also regulations (free trade agreements with more countries than anyone else in the world) and the training and clustering benefits that come with the rise in our car manufacturing capability.

No country can build inside it everything that it consumes. That would automatically make that country extremely poor as it uses a lot more resources than other more competitive places to get the same result. Research the statistics and you will find that the U.S. exports billions of dollars in many things to Mexico. Our trade is quite balanced compared to what happens between for example the U.S. and China.

Your position is akin to us trying to "build our own software" and shutting out Microsoft, Oracle, etc. Specialization among countries just as within organizations in the end makes everyone richer.

Finally, BMW is increasing U.S. production at the same time. Spartanburg has and for the foreseeable future will have a lot more production capacity than this hypothetical mexican plant. And U.S. based suppliers would benefit from this plant compared to the current situation (all 3 series built in Germany and South Africa).

With all due respect, if what you care for are U.S. jobs, your position is untenable. This BMW announcement would be a net gain for U.S. jobs compared with the situation today.
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      08-07-2012, 06:06 PM   #126
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Regarding build quality of things made in Mexico, I find it hard to believe that being made in Mexico has much, if anything, to do with it, particularly with cars as so much of the production line is automated via robots, at least for mass produced cards like BMWs and Mercs.

Hopefully, given the exchange rates between the dollar and the peso, the decision will keep the cost of buying a 3er down. It'd be really cool, as well as a coup, if BMW could actually lower the car's price while increasing profitability on the cars.
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      08-07-2012, 06:10 PM   #127
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Omg this thread.

The real sentiment is that offloading production to Mexico is very Walmart of BMW. Globalization is a bad thing after all. It serves the masters well, but doesn't do much for the consumer or the local base that could otherwise use the manufacturing jobs.

US consumers purchasing BMWs on the scale we do is bad for the US. At some point that served Germany well, but the new paradigm hurts all countries. And it hurts the environment, as these decisions are largely based on loose manufacturing & waste management restrictions.

At least with Walmart the consumer gets the cost benefit. This is just bad for the masses, good for the few.
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      08-07-2012, 06:31 PM   #128
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One of the selling strategies of BMW in the USA is the salesman explaining to you that the car is made in Germany. They won't start highlighting the "Made in Mexico" part, because they know it will devalue the vehicle to many consumers. I'm not debating that Mexico cannot create an equal car, but when spending $50k on a vehicle, it's nice knowing it came from Germany or USA. Something just sounds wrong about the Mexico part, and whether the car be equal or not, being made in Mexico would have me searching for another vehicle.

It's not just Mexico, there are a ton of countries out there that would have the same results, nothing against Mexico.
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      08-07-2012, 06:31 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
Templar, I understand your position here. However, trade is not a zero sum game. Mexico has gradually been building up a comparative advantage in car building. It is not only the wages (which have been rising) but also regulations (free trade agreements with more countries than anyone else in the world) and the training and clustering benefits that come with the rise in our car manufacturing capability.

No country can build inside it everything that it consumes. That would automatically make that country extremely poor as it uses a lot more resources than other more competitive places to get the same result. Research the statistics and you will find that the U.S. exports billions of dollars in many things to Mexico. Our trade is quite balanced compared to what happens between for example the U.S. and China.

Your position is akin to us trying to "build our own software" and shutting out Microsoft, Oracle, etc. Specialization among countries just as within organizations in the end makes everyone richer.

Finally, BMW is increasing U.S. production at the same time. Spartanburg has and for the foreseeable future will have a lot more production capacity than this hypothetical mexican plant. And U.S. based suppliers would benefit from this plant compared to the current situation (all 3 series built in Germany and South Africa).

With all due respect, if what you care for are U.S. jobs, your position is untenable. This BMW announcement would be a net gain for U.S. jobs compared with the situation today.
Well, I haven't read all the other posts on this topic, but I can see at least one person understands simple economics. Unfortunately, macro-/microeconomics isn't among the required curricula in most high school or college programs.
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      08-07-2012, 06:56 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Why does everyone assume the factory workers in Germany are all German? There are a lot of immigrants working in various countries throughout Europe just like there are a lot of immigrants from Mexico working in the US.
I like the idea of the person putting my car together having 6 weeks of paid vacation. Having a sense of national or at least local (Bavarian) pride, whether or not they are german born is a plus.
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      08-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #131
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Guys, don't be prejudice. If BMW can build cars in Mexico, I bet they would ensure the quality of it same as those built in germany and China.
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      08-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci
To all the bottom-liners: I get it, I really do. But, to many of us that buy these cars, one of the prime reasons for buying is that it is made in Germany, by Germans. Whether or not that makes a statistically significant, measurable difference in quality is irrelevant if you've lost the perception thereof.

Go out into the public and tell a sample of 1000 BMW owners their German, Ultimate Driving Machine BMW was made in Mexico. I'll bet you'll find more than a handful of disgruntled folks. Hell, when I tell people some of the 3's are made in South Africa and you have to check the VIN to know, the reaction is often, "WHAT!"
Which means that the person didn't know where the vehicle was made. And it didnt change how much they enjoy their vehicle.

Which means you didn't really make a valid point at all.



The only way this will really affect most buyers is those interested in euro delivery, which I am sure will be still available, although perhaps not.

Heck. Maybe there will be a performance center experience in Mexico ala Spartanburg.
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