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      08-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #155
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goodbye bmw

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NOOOOOOOOO
as predicted my first and last new BMW.
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      08-08-2012, 04:09 PM   #156
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Component/Supplier content in a vehicle really has to do with final assembly point.

OEM's get taxed based on amount of localized content (locally sourced suppliers) in relation to the assembly plant. They also need to have a certain % of the total vehicle with parts produced locally for custom compliance. The more you import parts, the higher duties you pay and the less you can make the statement of "made in NAFTA".

The majority of your components are German, because your final vehicle assembly point was German. Don't think that a vehicle made in the Mexico will have the majority of it's components/parts built in Germany. Some of the powertrain might be sourced from Europe, but there are also discussions of the German automakers building powertrain plants locally (some joint ventures with other OEM's).
Very true, if a BMW is labeled "made in X country" then chances are the majority of the parts are made in the listed country. If I'm correct the sales sheet even labels the percentage of parts made in the "manufactured" country.

Personally I have faith in BMW and expect them to build great cars. The company is going through some tough changes such as building plants in new countries, diminished engine sizes, and different wheel drives, time will do well but I support their move nonetheless.
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      08-08-2012, 04:27 PM   #157
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I like how my posts were deleted, excellent censorship. Anyways, the reason people pay 2-3x as much for a BMW vs a Chevy or Ford are the quality and pleasure in ownership. When these cars are made in Germany, it is more justified for higher product costs because the labor is very expensive. However with Mexico's worse educated and cheaper labor, it is wrong to expect customers to pay the same high price. Big three cars are cheaper than the Euro giants because their cars are horrible quality, and I can only see BMW's Mexican made cars to be shit too.
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      08-08-2012, 05:44 PM   #158
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I am quite shocked at regarding some of the issues raised in this thread,

I am wondering if some of the directed comments were forwarded to BMW North America or BMW AG. Because in Germany they will look at it , delete it and then get back to the business of developing cars.

seriously what do you think of a BMW assembled in South Africa , India , China or even the USA?
You should not have such an opinion because each BMW is built to quality standards devised in Germany and should BMW decide to manufacture cars in Mexico there will not be that issue as again quality standards will be as all BMW's manufacturing facilities.

The overall factor that everyone has overlooked is that the word consider is in the headline. Mexico is one location , other locations are Brazil , Eastern Europe and Russia. The facility will not be in the USA or Mainland Europe .
BMW are in the process of obtaining an agreement to use a facility in the Netherlands as a satellite MINI plant.
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      08-08-2012, 06:54 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I am quite shocked at regarding some of the issues raised in this thread,

I am wondering if some of the directed comments were forwarded to BMW North America or BMW AG. Because in Germany they will look at it , delete it and then get back to the business of developing cars.

seriously what do you think of a BMW assembled in South Africa , India , China or even the USA?
You should not have such an opinion because each BMW is built to quality standards devised in Germany and should BMW decide to manufacture cars in Mexico there will not be that issue as again quality standards will be as all BMW's manufacturing facilities.

The overall factor that everyone has overlooked is that the word consider is in the headline. Mexico is one location , other locations are Brazil , Eastern Europe and Russia. The facility will not be in the USA or Mainland Europe .
BMW are in the process of obtaining an agreement to use a facility in the Netherlands as a satellite MINI plant.
It's clear that no amount of logic or common sense will change some of these people's minds. BMW is probably just a status symbol for them so how are people going to view them if their cars are built in Mexico? For them it has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with perception.
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      08-08-2012, 06:55 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I am quite shocked at regarding some of the issues raised in this thread,

I am wondering if some of the directed comments were forwarded to BMW North America or BMW AG. Because in Germany they will look at it , delete it and then get back to the business of developing cars.

seriously what do you think of a BMW assembled in South Africa , India , China or even the USA?
You should not have such an opinion because each BMW is built to quality standards devised in Germany and should BMW decide to manufacture cars in Mexico there will not be that issue as again quality standards will be as all BMW's manufacturing facilities.

The overall factor that everyone has overlooked is that the word consider is in the headline. Mexico is one location , other locations are Brazil , Eastern Europe and Russia. The facility will not be in the USA or Mainland Europe .
BMW are in the process of obtaining an agreement to use a facility in the Netherlands as a satellite MINI plant.
Hello Scott,

Thrilled to see you chime in. The xenophobia and ignorance about the worldwide car industry of a few of the commenters here is astounding. Fortunately, there are also reasonable comments here.

Glad to hear the xenophobia will just be "deleted" back in HQ.

I can tell you that we in Mexico are thrilled that this news came up, it would allow BMW a competitive cost structure vis-a-vis Audi and we are cheering for you guys in our local BMW club.

We understand that BMW has worldwide options to invest and think it is a honor to be in this short list of possibilities.
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      08-08-2012, 09:31 PM   #161
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+1 on the last two comments. It is not about where the car is built but how it is built. BMW will not disappoint. My wallet will be happier too. Win Win.
just cuz it is built in mexico, it won't be cheaper. Quality does depend who is building the car, aside from material and robot.
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      08-08-2012, 10:28 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I am quite shocked at regarding some of the issues raised in this thread,

I am wondering if some of the directed comments were forwarded to BMW North America or BMW AG. Because in Germany they will look at it , delete it and then get back to the business of developing cars.

seriously what do you think of a BMW assembled in South Africa , India , China or even the USA?
You should not have such an opinion because each BMW is built to quality standards devised in Germany and should BMW decide to manufacture cars in Mexico there will not be that issue as again quality standards will be as all BMW's manufacturing facilities.

The overall factor that everyone has overlooked is that the word consider is in the headline. Mexico is one location , other locations are Brazil , Eastern Europe and Russia. The facility will not be in the USA or Mainland Europe .
BMW are in the process of obtaining an agreement to use a facility in the Netherlands as a satellite MINI plant.
Hello Scott,

Thrilled to see you chime in. The xenophobia and ignorance about the worldwide car industry of a few of the commenters here is astounding. Fortunately, there are also reasonable comments here.

Glad to hear the xenophobia will just be "deleted" back in HQ.

I can tell you that we in Mexico are thrilled that this news came up, it would allow BMW a competitive cost structure vis-a-vis Audi and we are cheering for you guys in our local BMW club.

We understand that BMW has worldwide options to invest and think it is a honor to be in this short list of possibilities.

Of course you're happy, you're looking out for your own. That's all some of us are trying to do as well.

I don't care if the build plants in other far away places, that makes sense to me, it's part of their global needs. But to come so close to the USA, which I'm confident has been a great source of financial support to them, and give us a big "fuck you" by supporting mexico, just infuriates me. I am glad Cadillac has stepped up to the plate.

And again I'm not questioning that Mexicans can build a good enough, I'm sure it will be fine, I'm not that silly. It's BMWs disregard for Americans that infuriates me so.
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      08-08-2012, 11:01 PM   #163
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Of course you're happy, you're looking out for your own. That's all some of us are trying to do as well.

I don't care if the build plants in other far away places, that makes sense to me, it's part of their global needs. But to come so close to the USA, which I'm confident has been a great source of financial support to them, and give us a big "fuck you" by supporting mexico, just infuriates me. I am glad Cadillac has stepped up to the plate.

And again I'm not questioning that Mexicans can build a good enough, I'm sure it will be fine, I'm not that silly. It's BMWs disregard for Americans that infuriates me so.
The plant in Mexico would benefit the U.S. more than any of those "far away places". What an irrational position.

So what would you like, that every plant in the Americas is opened in the U.S. instead of Mexico because it is "near" and you "buy a lot"?

Cadillac already builds their SUV´s in Mexico. American companies build more cars in Mexico than anyone else.

Mexico buys more american products than every other country except Canada. Mexico buys 198 billion/year of U.S. products but yeah, you´d rather have a BMW plant in a "faraway place".

We buy:

- Twice as much as China (but you´d rather have BMW open more plants there)
- Four times as much as Germany (or keep all production in Germany)
- Hundreds of times more than South Africa (or here)
- Twenty times as much as Russia (or open a new plant here - they have nukes pointing at you, remember?)

Whatever. Haters gonna hate.

Absolutely nobody complained here when BMW opened up in Spartanburg. We can actually understand that it benefits us just as this would benefit you with our economies as integrated as they are.

Fortunately the people running your country and your companies do understand this.
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      08-08-2012, 11:15 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico
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Of course you're happy, you're looking out for your own. That's all some of us are trying to do as well.

I don't care if the build plants in other far away places, that makes sense to me, it's part of their global needs. But to come so close to the USA, which I'm confident has been a great source of financial support to them, and give us a big "fuck you" by supporting mexico, just infuriates me. I am glad Cadillac has stepped up to the plate.

And again I'm not questioning that Mexicans can build a good enough, I'm sure it will be fine, I'm not that silly. It's BMWs disregard for Americans that infuriates me so.
The plant in Mexico would benefit the U.S. more than any of those "far away places". What an irrational position.

So what would you like, that every plant in the Americas is opened in the U.S. instead of Mexico because it is "near"?

Cadillac already builds their SUV´s in Mexico. American companies build more cars in Mexico than anyone else.

Mexico buys more american products than every other country except Canada. Mexico buys 198 billon/year of U.S. products but yeah, you´d rather have a BMW plant in a "faraway place".

We buy:

- Twice as much as China
- Four times as much as Germany
- Hundreds of times more than South Africa
- Twenty times as much as Russia.

Whatever. Haters gonna hate.

You do a great job promoting all the benefits of being mexicos neighbor, but regardless, BMW has lost a loyal customer. It's not just this insult, it's many other things as well that have made their cars not so special anymore, from run flats to electric steering, to start stop.

Thank you for your time and statistics, and have a great night.
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      08-08-2012, 11:26 PM   #165
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You changed your post a lot while responded .

My leaders are imbeciles who don't have balls. They'd rather provide government funded services in Spanish than force immigrants to learn English. I called 911 a couple years ago and had to wait an extra 30 sec to get to an operator because they chose to repeat the entire message Spanish. WTF is that all about?

I wonder if the message is repeated in English in other countries while you lay dying waiting to speak to an operator.

So please dont quote my leaders as have brains or "knowing better" when it comes to dealing with Mexico.
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      08-08-2012, 11:56 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
You changed your post a lot while responded .
I do that a lot as I think of additional points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
You changed your post a lot while responded .
My leaders are imbeciles who don't have balls. They'd rather provide government funded services in Spanish than force immigrants to learn English. I called 911 a couple years ago and had to wait an extra 30 sec to get to an operator because they chose to repeat the entire message Spanish. WTF is that all about?

I wonder if the message is repeated in English in other countries while you lay dying waiting to speak to an operator.

So please dont quote my leaders as have brains or "knowing better" when it comes to dealing with Mexico.
I am sorry about your 911 experience and hope you are ok. Maybe the Spanish message helped save a few lives some times. Do you think that just because someone doesnt speak English he or she deserves to die? I get the point about the 30 seconds delay though endangering most callers. Maybe a simple and quick "Presione 2 para Español" would be better. But I disgress.

Many places in the world have special consideration for the English language as well. Just go to Cancun. Or Jamaica. You get the idea.

It seems to me that you are very angry about several illegal immigration-related issues and that makes you similarly angry towards Mexico in general. That is an entirely different debate and quite emotionally charged. I don´t live in San Diego or a similar place with lots of immigrants so I´ll avoid discussing that.

In any case, this kind of thing (the BMW plant announcement) is basically all good both for the U.S. and Mexico. We would both get additional jobs compared to the current situation (no BMW plant) and some of those would help mexicans stay in Mexico which is what I think both you and I want.

On your previous post about avoiding BMW because of other decisions they have made (EPS, FWD, whatever) as an enthusiast I tend to agree. But as long as the M cars stay good they´ll keep me as a customer. I am just trying to make a point that the Mexico plan should not influence that decision at all. But that is of course your call as preferences are always subjective.

Finally, your leaders in government are democratically elected so one can only think that their decisions - in general - represent the majority view.
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      08-09-2012, 12:36 AM   #167
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Not sure how I feel about the original post. There is definitely a lot of racism in this thread and I'm surprised moderators haven't been stepping more here..

I would like to mention though that I have read that in Mexico the 48 hour labor law is rarely observed or enforced due to loopholes in their government... While in Germany they observe a work week of less than 40 hours. Based on this observation and other problems within Mexico regarding labor I would wager that the build quality of the average car assembled in Germany would be better than in Mexico.. Would this difference be big? Or even significant? Who knows. Of course BMW should, as a good company, be able to regulate these things, however I believe history would show that big business tends to fall short here. This is a lot of speculation here from me though as this is definitely not at all my area of expertise. Perhaps someone could shed some more light on this..

Edit: on a side note, I don't know about any of you, but I have no interest in buying a FWD car anyway, so this doesn't really concern me.
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      08-09-2012, 12:45 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
You changed your post a lot while responded .
I do that a lot as I think of additional points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
You changed your post a lot while responded .
My leaders are imbeciles who don't have balls. They'd rather provide government funded services in Spanish than force immigrants to learn English. I called 911 a couple years ago and had to wait an extra 30 sec to get to an operator because they chose to repeat the entire message Spanish. WTF is that all about?

I wonder if the message is repeated in English in other countries while you lay dying waiting to speak to an operator.

So please dont quote my leaders as have brains or "knowing better" when it comes to dealing with Mexico.
I am sorry about your 911 experience and hope you are ok. Maybe the Spanish message helped save a few lives some times. Do you think that just because someone doesnt speak English he or she deserves to die? I get the point about the 30 seconds delay though endangering most callers. Maybe a simple and quick "Presione 2 para Español" would be better. But I disgress.

Many places in the world have special consideration for the English language as well. Just go to Cancun. Or Jamaica. You get the idea.

It seems to me that you are very angry about several illegal immigration-related issues and that makes you similarly angry towards Mexico in general. That is an entirely different debate and quite emotionally charged. I don´t live in San Diego or a similar place with lots of immigrants so I´ll avoid discussing that.

In any case, this kind of thing (the BMW plant announcement) is basically all good both for the U.S. and Mexico. We would both get additional jobs compared to the current situation (no BMW plant) and some of those would help mexicans stay in Mexico which is what I think both you and I want.

On your previous post about avoiding BMW because of other decisions they have made (EPS, FWD, whatever) as an enthusiast I tend to agree. But as long as the M cars stay good they´ll keep me as a customer. I am just trying to make a point that the Mexico plan should not influence that decision at all. But that is of course your call as preferences are always subjective.

Finally, your leaders in government are democratically elected so one can only think that their decisions - in general - represent the majority view.


Thank you sir, you are quite a gentleman, and welcome to dinner anytime. . I appreciate your debate and your opinions.
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      08-09-2012, 07:41 AM   #169
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n any case, this kind of thing (the BMW plant announcement) is basically all good both for the U.S. and Mexico. We would both get additional jobs compared to the current situation (no BMW plant) and some of those would help mexicans stay in Mexico which is what I think both you and I want.
You are definitely right on this point. There will be some benefits for both countries, but to Fraggy's point, Mexico will benefit more from this move. I think his point is that he'd rather see it built in the US and further support the economy that will buy the majority of the vehicles. Case in point is Spartanburg. It's amazing to see how that plant has transformed the area and the small city of Greenville. I would expect you to have the same view towards the plant in Mexico and the potential revitalization of a town/city in the country.

It's difficult to debate pride and wishing the best for your country. Facts on US getting a slice of the pie won't sell the fact that Mexico will take the whole pie.
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      08-09-2012, 07:49 AM   #170
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scott. it is all about perception. mexico is not considered to be industrialized like other nations. many of its people flock to the u.s. illegally.. why?? as a result, products manufactured in mexico will be percieved as "low quality"..
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      08-09-2012, 11:27 AM   #171
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I think it's much more sentimental than anything else. You don't buy an Italian suit that's designed in Italy and assembled in China or Vietnam, as you wouldn't buy a Swiss watch that's designed in Switzerland and assembled in Japan. I don't care if BMW lifted the Regensberg factory from the Earth, transported an entirely German workforce and had them all get doctorates, I still wouldn't want them assembling my 3 series in Mexico, the US, or anywhere else for that matter.

Yea it's not economical, and it's not rational. But when you get behind the wheel of a BMW and drive it, those things aren't usually what you experience. You experience a feeling, some might even say a sort of cathartic moment. People buy cars because of the way they make them feel. This is true even for the most basic of transportation. If it weren't there wouldn't be more than one color or style of even the most basic economy cars.

Being made in Germany, and for that matter Bavaria, is part of the BMW experience. You may not be able to smell it, see it, hear it, taste it or even touch it; but still you can feel it. The human mind is incredible, and once told the car is no longer built in a specific locale, for me-and I would hazard to guess for many others-that feeling changes. Whether or not that feeling should change is entirely immaterial once the change has occurred because by then the damage is done.

Don't get too bent out of shape-just my opinion.

And for the record, the FWD infuriates me, but I wouldn't consider it anyway.
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      08-09-2012, 02:54 PM   #172
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With all of Mexico's problems I think it is going to be difficult for BMW to set up shop there. Granted they did it successfully in South Africa, so who knows.

I think it is a big risk though.
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      08-10-2012, 01:31 AM   #173
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No thanks!

First off... FWD BMW?! No thank you! Assembled in Mexico!? Hellno!!
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      08-10-2012, 01:35 PM   #174
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nooooo.
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      08-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #175
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Thank you sir, you are quite a gentleman, and welcome to dinner anytime. . I appreciate your debate and your opinions.
Thank you and likewise.
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      08-10-2012, 10:07 PM   #176
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Fail, same mistake VW did. Ill make sure not to get any of those models during that time period let alone a FWD bimmer ! cheap labor - cheap parts = no love going into that bmw
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