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      08-11-2012, 03:45 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
I think it's much more sentimental than anything else. You don't buy an Italian suit that's designed in Italy and assembled in China or Vietnam, as you wouldn't buy a Swiss watch that's designed in Switzerland and assembled in Japan. I don't care if BMW lifted the Regensberg factory from the Earth, transported an entirely German workforce and had them all get doctorates, I still wouldn't want them assembling my 3 series in Mexico, the US, or anywhere else for that matter.

Yea it's not economical, and it's not rational. But when you get behind the wheel of a BMW and drive it, those things aren't usually what you experience. You experience a feeling, some might even say a sort of cathartic moment. People buy cars because of the way they make them feel. This is true even for the most basic of transportation. If it weren't there wouldn't be more than one color or style of even the most basic economy cars.

Being made in Germany, and for that matter Bavaria, is part of the BMW experience. You may not be able to smell it, see it, hear it, taste it or even touch it; but still you can feel it. The human mind is incredible, and once told the car is no longer built in a specific locale, for me-and I would hazard to guess for many others-that feeling changes. Whether or not that feeling should change is entirely immaterial once the change has occurred because by then the damage is done.
+100000

I work with a guy that was looking at getting a Z4C to replace his aging E36 328iC, but, as much as he liked the idea of a BMW sports car, he just couldn't face buying a BMW that wasn't made in Germany, so he's bought a 130i instead.

I also have a cousin who saved and work hard to be able to buy her dream Audi TT, and was so proud of her 'cute' German 'sports' car.

I said, jokingly that it's really a Hungarian car, rather than German....which confused her, so I explained that the TT was made in Hungary, not Germany.
She was mortified, and hated me for telling her, and within 18 months she'd sold her dream car, as the fact that it wasn't what she 'thought' it was totally ruined the experience for her.
An extreme reaction I know, but, just proves that people buy for emotional, as was as other reasons.
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      08-11-2012, 07:32 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
This is the email I just sent BMW.

"It is very distrubing to myself and many other LOYAL american BMW owners that you have decieded to outsource your new production plant to mexico to avoid paying american wages but you intend to sell that product in an american market. I have bought 4 bmw/mini products in the last 3-4 years. Your loyal repeat buyers are aware of your build plans and are livid you intend to do so "on the cheap" Many of us will not be buying future BMW products if you can't even build them where you sell them. We know you cannot entirely build them all in every market but atleast build them in a 1st world country so we may make enough money to buy your products. If we only sell each other a cup of coffee or a hamburger who can afford to buy a 60kplus car. Please consider this in your thinking. Thank you for your time."

To the Mexican members of this forum. We don't fault you for wanting this factory. It would bring good paying jobs to you. Having said that we need those jobs as well. And as most of these cars would be sold to American/Canadian markets they should be built here. If they build them in Mexico I will not be buying another.

Thank you.
LOL. So why didn't you just buy an American made car in the first place; like a Chevy or a Ford?
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      08-11-2012, 07:49 AM   #179
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Just some thoughts.

One of the first cars BMW built at the Spartanburg plant was the newly introduced E36 in 1992. Go research the quality problems of the '92 E36, especially the build quality of the interior. The quality of the early production Z3 interiors weren't much better.

If BMW has been so successful with the Spartanburg plant in the US, why not build another plant in the US? Maybe Mexico gave them a better deal and has a better business climate to make a long-term investment? Maybe the current administration, which claims to be so pro-American manufacturing (as long as they are "green" jobs), has made the future American business climate unattractive to BMW? Pro-union labor, high corporate and personal income taxes, poor healthcare plan, poor (disastrous?) energy and fiscal policies; maybe these things were part of BMW's decision. Don't blame BMW, blame your politicians...

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      08-11-2012, 08:17 PM   #180
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I will never buy a car made in Mexico! BMW you should be looking to build a second plant in the US or a new plant Canada! It's a matter of where the money and jobs are going - not a build quality issue to me! Build them where you sell them!!!!

It makes perfect sense that they build them in China for the Chinese market. They have also created customized extended versions for the Chinese market. It keeps a lot of the money and jobs in the market where they sell them. Support your markets BMW! Build them where you sell them!!!!

Just another way for BMW to take advantage of cheep labour to increase their profit margins in North America. I can assure you they will not pass the savings on to Canadian buyers! Our currency is currently at par with the US dollar and we still pay a lot more than our US neighbours.

Last edited by Stephen5242; 08-11-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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      08-11-2012, 08:46 PM   #181
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hella pass, look what the shitty quality the Volkswagen beetle had coming from mexico
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      08-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by T335iQ View Post
I had a 02 1.8T jetta (my first car,2nd owner) that car fell apart and ended up leaking oil in my turbine at 69,xxx.
Ditto.. same exact stats, plus some wonderful electrical system issues. This is what I got rid of to enter the BMW ecosystem!
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      08-13-2012, 02:26 PM   #183
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Crisis averted?

If rumours in Munich prove to be correct the location in Brazil is preferred.
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      08-13-2012, 02:39 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Crisis averted?

If rumours in Munich prove to be correct the location in Brazil is preferred.
For everyone here it would be moronic to prefer Brazil over Mexico. However, after going through the level of this discussion, nothing surprises me regarding anti-Mexico xenophobia here.

A few facts (not that most people here care about facts):

1. The plant in Mexico would generate U.S. jobs for suppliers. The plant in Brazil wouldn´t or would to a much much lesser extent.

2. Mexico´s automotive industry has a lot higher exports and a lot higher quality than Brazil. So much so that Brazil had to come crying to us recently to renegotiate our trade agreement because we were exporting to them a lot more than they were exporting to us.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...ars-etc&int=-1
http://mexicanautomotive.com/en/home...motive-matters

3. Brazilian murder rates are worse than ours. Yes, really. New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/op...letters23.html

4. Our economy has been growing at twice Brazil's pace for the last two years and we might overtake them by 2022 in total economic size (with less than 2/3 of the population).

http://www.economist.com/blogs/ameri...8af4f7a640fd8a

5. Our per capita income is higher.

6. Creating jobs in Mexico helps reduce illegal immigration to the U.S.

7. Our economy is much ore open and we have free trade agreements with a lot more countries that could be export destinations for the plant. Brazil's economy is a lot more closed.

Advantages of Brazil?

The last year BMW sold very slightly more cars there than here. BMW sold 12,074 cars in Brazil and 11,262 in Mexico in 2011. That´s it.
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Last edited by BMW M Power Mexico; 08-13-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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      08-13-2012, 02:47 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Crisis averted?

If rumours in Munich prove to be correct the location in Brazil is preferred.
"BMW threatens to withdraw its Brazil manufacturing plans: “We’re not investing there to book losses”"

http://brazilianbubble.com/bmw-threa...o-book-losses/

Considering that the Mexico announcement came after this, who knows?
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      08-13-2012, 02:59 PM   #186
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Nah, the anti-Mexico people are on the fringe. Most of the issue is with cars not being made in Munich, coming from the purist crowd. Brazil is equally as bad.

It raises an interesting point - what is BMW's flagship model??? For example, Porsche builds all 911 models in Stuttgart but offloads production of boxster/caymans, panameras, and cayennes to other countries. Does this mean that only 5ers and above are the models BMW considers their best? Maybe at one time the 5er and 7er were killing it, but most would prefer an A6 or an S-Class these days.
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      08-13-2012, 03:19 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Just some thoughts.

One of the first cars BMW built at the Spartanburg plant was the newly introduced E36 in 1992. Go research the quality problems of the '92 E36, especially the build quality of the interior. The quality of the early production Z3 interiors weren't much better.

If BMW has been so successful with the Spartanburg plant in the US, why not build another plant in the US? Maybe Mexico gave them a better deal and has a better business climate to make a long-term investment? Maybe the current administration, which claims to be so pro-American manufacturing (as long as they are "green" jobs), has made the future American business climate unattractive to BMW? Pro-union labor, high corporate and personal income taxes, poor healthcare plan, poor (disastrous?) energy and fiscal policies; maybe these things were part of BMW's decision. Don't blame BMW, blame your politicians...

Vote with your brain this November, not your guilt.
Interesting points.

First - your statements regarding the initial models from Spartanburg with low quality. What is your viewpoint in building in Mexico or US? It seems you're pointing out the fact that a new plant will have some major growing pains. Wouldn't this suggest that Mexico's first builds will be of low quality due to a "green" plant? This is more of the reason that BMW should build in Spartanburg due to the established manufacturing expertise.

In your political statement, I really don't know BMW's consideration of government policies and regulations in it's decision. I'm thinking that BMW sees the 1-series 'small car' market to be popular and a large growth opportunity in Latin/Central America sales, with the 3 series tagging along for the ride due to common parts.
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      08-14-2012, 08:51 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anerbe View Post
Interesting points.

First - your statements regarding the initial models from Spartanburg with low quality. What is your viewpoint in building in Mexico or US? It seems you're pointing out the fact that a new plant will have some major growing pains. Wouldn't this suggest that Mexico's first builds will be of low quality due to a "green" plant? This is more of the reason that BMW should build in Spartanburg due to the established manufacturing expertise.

In your political statement, I really don't know BMW's consideration of government policies and regulations in it's decision. I'm thinking that BMW sees the 1-series 'small car' market to be popular and a large growth opportunity in Latin/Central America sales, with the 3 series tagging along for the ride due to common parts.
Well Spartanburg was one of BMW's first plants outside of Germany and other than the drivetrain parts, a lot of the component parts were sourced to US suppliers if I remember correctly and there were quality problems with them. But 20 years ago, outside of the E30, BMW's were not the paragon of build quality (nor are they now).

Since many manufacturers build in Mexico, good quality cars are achievable. The Ford Fusion is built in Mexico and is a very high quality automobile based on it's initial quality surveys by JD Power.

If you don't like the political statement, well, that's why it's a Forum; not everything written is meant to be likable. But it is clear that if BMW had such great success it has claimed to have with the Spartanburg plant, why not build a new plant in the USA to serve the North American and South American markets? Something has changed in the business climate in the USA that helped BMW decide the Mexico offered a better deal. Maybe it is the NAFTA situation (which wasn’t around 20 years ago when Spartanburg was under consideration), but considering the potential business climate that the Obama administration is developing, it's a good bet it was one of BMW’s main considerations for its choice in plant location. Considering BMW had developed parts supplier relationships with USA-based suppliers, why start almost anew in Mexico? It doesn’t make sense. Governmental policies and regulations are ALWAYS taken into consideration in any business decision. The US economy has been stagnate for four years, do the math.
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      08-15-2012, 08:34 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Well Spartanburg was one of BMW's first plants outside of Germany and other than the drivetrain parts, a lot of the component parts were sourced to US suppliers if I remember correctly and there were quality problems with them. But 20 years ago, outside of the E30, BMW's were not the paragon of build quality (nor are they now).

Since many manufacturers build in Mexico, good quality cars are achievable. The Ford Fusion is built in Mexico and is a very high quality automobile based on it's initial quality surveys by JD Power.

If you don't like the political statement, well, that's why it's a Forum; not everything written is meant to be likable. But it is clear that if BMW had such great success it has claimed to have with the Spartanburg plant, why not build a new plant in the USA to serve the North American and South American markets? Something has changed in the business climate in the USA that helped BMW decide the Mexico offered a better deal. Maybe it is the NAFTA situation (which wasn’t around 20 years ago when Spartanburg was under consideration), but considering the potential business climate that the Obama administration is developing, it's a good bet it was one of BMW’s main considerations for its choice in plant location. Considering BMW had developed parts supplier relationships with USA-based suppliers, why start almost anew in Mexico? It doesn’t make sense. Governmental policies and regulations are ALWAYS taken into consideration in any business decision. The US economy has been stagnate for four years, do the math.
I think we are overall on the same page.

- Mexico, along with the US, has the capability to build good quality cars.
- Start-up of a plant will always be shaky at first
- Technically, utilizing an established plant and supplier base will be easier to launch a new product.
- Many things go into consideration when choosing a plant location, whether it be government regulations, market conditions, labor rates and expertise, local incentives, etc.. I'm sure BMW reviewed all these.

I never said I don't like your political statement, nor did I give my stance. I simply said I don't know how BMW considered government regulations into their decision (level of influence). I'm sure you also don't know, unless you are part of BMW's board of directors. I do know that some people get so passionate regarding politics, conversations (especially on forums) can go downhill, fast.

I'm sticking to my logic that BMW wants to expand growth in the Central and South American regions. They need 2 things - small vehicles and localized production. BMW probably mulled over production in Brazil (where 13 other Automakers produce regionally sold vehicles), but with the recent drop in Brazil's economic reputation, Mexico is taking the lead. With a small FWD platform, it will appeal to the more Southern countries, and Mexico is that much closer to the waterways (reduced logistics costs).

When my German company was deciding to set up a new plant, potential locations included Mexico, as well as a large group of states, including Michigan, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, etc....We already have plants in Illinois and Mexico. Michigan was quickly axed due to the labor unions and high rates, Mexico didn't make sense due to our existing plant's ability to support local markets. We settled upon South Carolina due to a number of factors, with government policies being only a piece of the pie.
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      08-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico View Post
For everyone here it would be moronic to prefer Brazil over Mexico. However, after going through the level of this discussion, nothing surprises me regarding anti-Mexico xenophobia here.

A few facts (not that most people here care about facts):

1. The plant in Mexico would generate U.S. jobs for suppliers. The plant in Brazil wouldn´t or would to a much much lesser extent.

2. Mexico´s automotive industry has a lot higher exports and a lot higher quality than Brazil. So much so that Brazil had to come crying to us recently to renegotiate our trade agreement because we were exporting to them a lot more than they were exporting to us.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...ars-etc&int=-1
http://mexicanautomotive.com/en/home...motive-matters

3. Brazilian murder rates are worse than ours. Yes, really. New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/op...letters23.html

4. Our economy has been growing at twice Brazil's pace for the last two years and we might overtake them by 2022 in total economic size (with less than 2/3 of the population).

http://www.economist.com/blogs/ameri...8af4f7a640fd8a

5. Our per capita income is higher.

6. Creating jobs in Mexico helps reduce illegal immigration to the U.S.

7. Our economy is much ore open and we have free trade agreements with a lot more countries that could be export destinations for the plant. Brazil's economy is a lot more closed.

Advantages of Brazil?

The last year BMW sold very slightly more cars there than here. BMW sold 12,074 cars in Brazil and 11,262 in Mexico in 2011. That´s it.

So funny, you guys get confronted with facts you cant argue with, so you just decide to ignore them... No wonder why americans are as of lately catalogued as dumb people all over the word. Such a shame, since I know a lot of american people who are really smart and nice people, but its just amazing what the large crowd of xenophic one´s can do for the country image worlwide.

Glad to see tough that there are some members in this board who really have a mind on their own and are respectful, wheter they support or not the plant in Mexico.
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      08-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anerbe View Post
I think we are overall on the same page.

- Mexico, along with the US, has the capability to build good quality cars.
- Start-up of a plant will always be shaky at first
- Technically, utilizing an established plant and supplier base will be easier to launch a new product.
- Many things go into consideration when choosing a plant location, whether it be government regulations, market conditions, labor rates and expertise, local incentives, etc.. I'm sure BMW reviewed all these.

I never said I don't like your political statement, nor did I give my stance. I simply said I don't know how BMW considered government regulations into their decision (level of influence). I'm sure you also don't know, unless you are part of BMW's board of directors. I do know that some people get so passionate regarding politics, conversations (especially on forums) can go downhill, fast.

I'
I'm sticking to my logic that BMW wants to expand growth in the Central and South American regions. They need 2 things - small vehicles and localized production. BMW probably mulled over production in Brazil (where 13 other Automakers produce regionally sold vehicles), but with the recent drop in Brazil's economic reputation, Mexico is taking the lead. With a small FWD platform, it will appeal to the more Southern countries, and Mexico is that much closer to the waterways (reduced logistics costs).

When my German company was deciding to set up a new plant, potential locations included Mexico, as well as a large group of states, including Michigan, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, etc....We already have plants in Illinois and Mexico. Michigan was quickly axed due to the labor unions and high rates, Mexico didn't make sense due to our existing plant's ability to support local markets. We settled upon South Carolina due to a number of factors, with government policies being only a piece of the pie.
I'm sure they did cosider more than gov't policies. And if the market for the plant is primarily SA based, then I think you are very correct in your assessment.
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      08-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #192
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Reason for the Mexico plant is plain and simple. It's because they just won Gold in Soccer at the 2012 Olympics ........ eh .. eh .. eh .. Yes ... No ... maybe??
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      08-15-2012, 01:13 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by arc1880 View Post
Reason for the Mexico plant is plain and simple. It's because they just won Gold in Soccer at the 2012 Olympics ........ eh .. eh .. eh .. Yes ... No ... maybe??
really? shows how much I care about soccer- thanks for informing me. Soccer, or football, like building BMWs in Mexico, is one of the handful of european ideas I just can't seem to embrace.
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      08-16-2012, 06:19 AM   #194
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Epic Fail on BMW part, the main reason people buy these cars are because of what BMW stands for.

If anything the US plant should have been expanded.

Watch out all the illegals are going to run back to mexico!
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      09-05-2012, 09:16 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-
Epic Fail on BMW part, the main reason people buy these cars are because of what BMW stands for.

If anything the US plant should have been expanded.

Watch out all the illegals are going to run back to mexico!
If only....
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      09-07-2012, 01:53 PM   #196
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FAIL!
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      10-12-2012, 11:30 AM   #197
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Thumbs down Mexican BMW

I will not buy any BMW that is made in Mexico, just won't do it.
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      10-12-2012, 02:16 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
But it is clear that if BMW had such great success it has claimed to have with the Spartanburg plant, why not build a new plant in the USA to serve the North American and South American markets?
BMW announced a $900 million (that's 100 million short a BILLION) expansion at Spartanburg that is adding 1000 jobs: http://www.goupstate.com/article/201...CLES/210051011

Not a new plant, but a substantial addition to Spartanburg.
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