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      09-12-2012, 09:14 PM   #1
mfish123
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335xi auto vs. 335i manual - Plan to tune - Getting power to the ground

I've made the decision to purchase a 2009 335. I plan on adding a Cobb tune and a dual cone intake.

I don't plan on tracking the car and straight line performance at semi legal speeds is the most important to me. In other words I'm more concerned with 0-60 and rolling starts and basically the acceleration capabilities under 100 mph. So I'm leaning towards an AWD automatic so I can get off line consistently without spinning wheels and without burning up or bogging the clutch. Although the other part of me wants the fun and engagement of RWD with a manual transmission.

My last 3 cars have been stick so I'm a very experienced shiftier. I'm coming from an 03 350Z and have owned a modded 1995 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD in the past.

I know this topic has been beaten to death but just want some fresh perspective. And for those of you with a chip / tune and intakes do you find that your just lighting up the rear tires and wasting all that power, wishing you had AWD? I'm not interested in getting an LSD and / or wider rims and tires on a 335i to help with traction. I'm just concerned that all that low end torque I'll be making with a chip will be wasted lighting up one of my rear tires.

I'm so torn between the two platforms that I'm going nuts! Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!
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      09-12-2012, 09:54 PM   #2
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I have a 335xi manual. It's nice having the traction off the line and in and out of corners. Personally, the joy of driving a stick outweighs my lust fur straight line speed.

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      09-12-2012, 10:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post
I've made the decision to purchase a 2009 335. I plan on adding a Cobb tune and a dual cone intake.

I don't plan on tracking the car and straight line performance at semi legal speeds is the most important to me. In other words I'm more concerned with 0-60 and rolling starts and basically the acceleration capabilities under 100 mph. So I'm leaning towards an AWD automatic so I can get off line consistently without spinning wheels and without burning up or bogging the clutch. Although the other part of me wants the fun and engagement of RWD with a manual transmission.

My last 3 cars have been stick so I'm a very experienced shiftier. I'm coming from an 03 350Z and have owned a modded 1995 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD in the past.

I know this topic has been beaten to death but just want some fresh perspective. And for those of you with a chip / tune and intakes do you find that your just lighting up the rear tires and wasting all that power, wishing you had AWD? I'm not interested in getting an LSD and / or wider rims and tires on a 335i to help with traction. I'm just concerned that all that low end torque I'll be making with a chip will be wasted lighting up one of my rear tires.

I'm so torn between the two platforms that I'm going nuts! Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!
Really comes to down to preference. Some of the fastest N54's at the strip are 6MT RWD. (Although heavily modified).

Do you need AWD for the winter?

FWIW, finished up work on my buddies 2009 LCI 335xi 6MT Sedan with JB4/DCI/BMW Performance Exhuast the other night. Had to run em (closed course of course). My 2008 335i Coupe 6SP MT has intakes JB4 and muffler delete. However being unsure of what firmware was loaded on the 335xi's JB4, kept it in map 5.

I had a 60/40 mix of 93/e85, playing around in map 6 asking for quite a bit of boost. (Only good for a glory run with supporting mods). Ambient temps were 45ish so good for a run or two without getting to hot on the stock FMIC.

From a 40 roll in 2nd, the 335xi did pull exceptionally hard, right there with me, until 3rd. From there on out I put about five car's (very hard to tell, eyes were on the road ahead) on him buy 140.

Afterwards I took the 335xi for a spin, it does hold the corners much better, but nothing a little suspension work that the 335i cant correct

After owning the 335i for the past four years in a manny tranny, I'll never go Auto/DCT. Idc how much faster that DCT can shift, you'll fall in love with the 6MT. But, to each their own.
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      09-12-2012, 10:19 PM   #4
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The AWD in the 3 series is not a performance AWD system in an Evo or WRX.

RWD 6MT is the way to go.
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      09-12-2012, 11:58 PM   #5
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I have 08 335xi AT with COBB and DCI.
Pulls great...Holds the road great(with traction control off). Never a problem with wheel spin.
Sub 5 sec 0-60.
Great in snow and wet.
Though I do miss the manual shifting!
FWIW
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      09-14-2012, 12:20 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the replies and input. I've decided to go MT RWD. I still love the control and the rowing of gears on a stick. Being that I'm not going to be drag racing every single chance I get I'm not concerned with 0.1s acceleration difference. I want to feel the power and control it more so than that have a quarter mile slip for bragging rights.

As far as AWD I think if it was a more performance oriented setup I'd o for it. But RWD is much more pure for a BMW performance vehicle. If tire spin is crazy out of control i might revisit wider rear tires and an LSD.

For those of you with RWD that are tuned do you have serious annoying traction problems getting the car to hook up or just some minor fun with the tires breaking lose a little when accelerating hard?
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      09-14-2012, 04:29 PM   #7
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auto sucks.
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      09-14-2012, 05:04 PM   #8
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AWD is Heaviiiiier
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      09-14-2012, 05:47 PM   #9
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Ive read that AT holds boost through shifts while MT does not, potentially giving a performance advantage.
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      11-20-2012, 05:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post
I've made the decision to purchase a 2009 335. I plan on adding a Cobb tune and a dual cone intake.

I don't plan on tracking the car and straight line performance at semi legal speeds is the most important to me. In other words I'm more concerned with 0-60 and rolling starts and basically the acceleration capabilities under 100 mph. So I'm leaning towards an AWD automatic so I can get off line consistently without spinning wheels and without burning up or bogging the clutch. Although the other part of me wants the fun and engagement of RWD with a manual transmission.

My last 3 cars have been stick so I'm a very experienced shiftier. I'm coming from an 03 350Z and have owned a modded 1995 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD in the past.

I know this topic has been beaten to death but just want some fresh perspective. And for those of you with a chip / tune and intakes do you find that your just lighting up the rear tires and wasting all that power, wishing you had AWD? I'm not interested in getting an LSD and / or wider rims and tires on a 335i to help with traction. I'm just concerned that all that low end torque I'll be making with a chip will be wasted lighting up one of my rear tires.

I'm so torn between the two platforms that I'm going nuts! Any input is much appreciated. Thanks!
Go AWD. I wish I did. I am FBO/Tune and spinning tires is just another day at the office for me.
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      11-20-2012, 07:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbryce View Post
auto sucks.

I beg to differ... I actually think the auto tranny in this machine is quite incredible. In fact, after driving aroudn a 328 MT loaner for a week when I had the recall HPFP work done, I prefer the auto transmission.

I, too, used to have this attitude that I was more of a "car guy" or an "enthusiast" because I drove my 6-speed manual and I even felt some consdescension towards people who didn't know how.

But after driving this car, statements like yours make me laugh. Particularly considering how much more capable it is.
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      11-20-2012, 07:34 AM   #12
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I made 380WHP & 420WFT/LB of torque with Cobb E-30 map. When it was warm out my 255/35/18 michelin pilot super sports couldn't break my rears loose even with a first gear roll-out pull.

The mechanical grip on these cars are just incredible.

My friend making 350WHP on his Twin-Turbo 300ZX with coilvers & 275/35/18's Falkins on the rear can break loose in 2nd gear straight line no issue with just moderate throttle. I drove his car and going back to mine I couldn't believe the amount of mechanical grip that our Bimmers have. And I'm not exaggerating at all about any of this.

Cant beat 10+ years of suspension geometry & engineering.

Go with a 6MT & RWD. You won't regret it!

ESPECIALLY later on down the line if you plan on dropping catless DP's (easier on non-awd models) [and you will believe me], or all out with an upgraded turbo setup. (You wont have to deal with funky 5th gear 6AT issues, or power-holding capabilities of the transmission. Upgrade clutch with 6MT & DONE!)

Also, you 335i guys are extremely lucky with bigger wheel arches and a better stock offset. You can easily fit 245's up front & 275's in the rear. And if grip is what you are looking for then nothing gets you better grip than upgrading what actually makes contact onto the road.

My little 1's perfect fitment is 225/255. 235/265 is possible but is pushing it.

Last edited by sparkyblue; 11-20-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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      11-20-2012, 10:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfish123 View Post
Thanks for all the replies and input. I've decided to go MT RWD. I still love the control and the rowing of gears on a stick. Being that I'm not going to be drag racing every single chance I get I'm not concerned with 0.1s acceleration difference. I want to feel the power and control it more so than that have a quarter mile slip for bragging rights.

As far as AWD I think if it was a more performance oriented setup I'd o for it. But RWD is much more pure for a BMW performance vehicle. If tire spin is crazy out of control i might revisit wider rear tires and an LSD.

For those of you with RWD that are tuned do you have serious annoying traction problems getting the car to hook up or just some minor fun with the tires breaking lose a little when accelerating hard?
I'm NOT tuned and traction is an issue. Mostly cornering. Im on 265 rears and traction control is always interupting and has almost caused more than 1 accident. LSD would solve most of it but its brutal.
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      11-20-2012, 10:44 AM   #14
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It depends on how you drive. of course a rwd can burn rubber. awd... well you cant.

Im RWD AUTO. i still lose alot of traction, but the auto really is quick when it comes to shifting. 2nd gear launches for me light up my tires (its cold out)
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      11-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydicule View Post
I beg to differ... I actually think the auto tranny in this machine is quite incredible. In fact, after driving aroudn a 328 MT loaner for a week when I had the recall HPFP work done, I prefer the auto transmission.

I, too, used to have this attitude that I was more of a "car guy" or an "enthusiast" because I drove my 6-speed manual and I even felt some consdescension towards people who didn't know how.

But after driving this car, statements like yours make me laugh. Particularly considering how much more capable it is.
i agree the auto actually isn't bad. much faster and smoother than the competitions. but i do prefer manual
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      11-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #16
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I was surprised at how much grip my 335i had, considering it's just rear wheel drive. I only have the BMW PPK on it, but still - I can get out of the hole pretty quickly with minimal wheel spin. Heck, a MK6 GTI that I had would violently spin in 1st gear. The BMW, with more power, has so much more grip.

Now, obviously the AWD has a bit more grip and even less wheel spin, but overall I think RWD is better because it allows the car to be a bit more flexible, lighter, etc.
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      11-20-2012, 01:07 PM   #17
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well if you drag race then AWD would be faster and the one to buy....but RWD 6-speed is more fun without a question
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      11-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #18
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This thread is 2 months old. Why? Just why?
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      11-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyR83 View Post
Ive read that AT holds boost through shifts while MT does not, potentially giving a performance advantage.
I debunked this myth in another thread. The DME pulls ignition timing during manual transmission upshifts to avoid cutting boost:

Quote:
BOOST PRESSURE AFTER GEAR SHIFT

The potential of software functions to optimize the response of the car can be shown with the following example: After a gear shift with a manual transmission the boost pressure is normally low. In order to realize a high torque as soon as possible after the gear shift it is necessary to increase the boost pressure quickly. The decrease in boost pressure however is caused by the driver, who has not torque demand during a gear shift. So a software function has been developed which is not closing the throttle valve during a short gear shift but decreases the torque of the engine by shifting the ignition time. So the mass flow through the turbine is still high even if the driver is changing the gear. This leads to a much better torque right after the gear shift, because the turbines are only loosing a small part of their energy. The effect of this software function is shown in fig. 9.

SAE Technical Paper Series 2007-01-1560
BMW High Precision Fuel Injection Conjunction with Twin-Turbo Technology: a Combination for Maximum Dynamic and High Fuel Efficiency
Cristoph Luttermann and Werner Mährle
BMW Group
The original text must have been translated from German, which is why the grammar is poor.
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      11-20-2012, 02:35 PM   #20
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I have a 6mt RWD and it spins in 1st, 2nd and most of 3rd. I have the No lift to shift setup and I personally love how much of a hand full the car is to drive and I have owned 2 evos and several other modded FWD, AWD and this being my first realitively high HP RWD car I wouldnt have it any other way!
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      11-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
I debunked this myth in another thread.
Neat, I was always curious if that was true or not. I had observed that the BOV does not fire off with shifts unless I let off the gas, so I thought it was accurate.

To be honest, I bought my car with an AT because it had every other feature I wanted (color, E92 body, interior, options) and it was the closest one to me even though it was a 6hr drive. I ended up settling for AT, but I have no major regrets. It's still an awesome car
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      11-20-2012, 03:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rondocap View Post
I was surprised at how much grip my 335i had, considering it's just rear wheel drive. I only have the BMW PPK on it, but still - I can get out of the hole pretty quickly with minimal wheel spin. Heck, a MK6 GTI that I had would violently spin in 1st gear. The BMW, with more power, has so much more grip.

Now, obviously the AWD has a bit more grip and even less wheel spin, but overall I think RWD is better because it allows the car to be a bit more flexible, lighter, etc.
Try doing that while turning and trying to merge into traffic. Traction control will shut everything off.
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