[cssnms]

Good one...

[OldArmy]

Nice!

[xbook]

Yet another example of the extreme ignorance within the ranks of the republicans. You guys are still beating this horse? It shows that the vast majority of republicans fail basic reading comprehension by still going after the "you didn't build that" remark.

[rgrovr]

Its hilarious when liberals trot out the diatribe that anyone who disagrees doesn't "Critically" think.. And it isn't called reading comprehension when words are spoken.

People can listen just fine with their own ears to understand the Amateur in Chief stumble his way into his version of the "It Takes a Village" meme.

The dimwitted among us are supposed to understand that without infrastructure, business can't be successful - what happens when business aren't successful and there is a great infrastructure surrounding it? If a newly paved road is a measure of business success - someone needs to tell the 80% of all new restaurants that open in NYC that fail within the first 5 years.

What's lost upon the idiot liberals that believe a commune is all you need in life for success, is that government - and all the product it provides, is directly attributable to the private individuals that sustain it. Not the other way around.

And if you really want to parse exact words.. why don't you work on the more damning part of his speech:

I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

So I'm not as smart or hardworking as I thought I was? Or my smarts or hardwork are not the most significant contribution to my success? Or because other people may be smarter or harder working, then my success hinges on them?

I understand its hard defending dumb statements, well because - they're dumb. It just hurts more because he's a constitutional professor from Harvard that was supposed to be smarter than everyone else.. oh wait - "THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF SMART PEOPLE OUT THERE!" I keep forgetting..

[OldArmy]

Much less about the actual quote and it's timing in his speechifying. Much more about his underlying belief (as illustrated when the entire speech is read) in collective first, individual second. This man doesn't understand or value the entrepreneur, the small business owner because he has no frame of reference. He's an academic (sorta) who never built or risked or laid awake nights agonizing over his decisions. Not a man of substance, big belt buckle, no cattle, time for him to go.

[xbook]

You guys are so full of shit, it's funny.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by rgrovr

So I'm not as smart or hardworking as I thought I was? Or my smarts or hardwork are not the most significant contribution to my success? Or because other people may be smarter or harder working, then my success hinges on them?

I would say, even without knowing you personally, that a large part of your success, if you're actually what some would even consider successful by today's standards, is largely based on timing, luck and association. I would also go a step further and suggests that a person like George Walker Bush,for example, who was by historical reference, a mediocre student grandfathered in at an Ivy League school, an incompetent businessman, and devastating CIC, risen through the ranks to reach such an esteemed position. Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege? Also, what's the odds of one becoming president just like his daddy? Hard work?

[alms211]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I would say, even without knowing you personally, that a large part of your success, if you're actually what some would even consider successful by today's standards, is largely based on timing, luck and association. I would also go a step further and suggests that a person like George Walker Bush,for example, who was by historical reference, a mediocre student grandfathered in at an Ivy League school, an incompetent businessman, and devastating CIC, risen through the ranks to reach such an esteemed position. Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege? Also, what's the odds of one becoming president just like his daddy? Hard work?

......another one with BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome). Just can't get enough can you?

How in the hell can you even make the comment you just made about someone you don't know? Come on Kreskin, tell me all about my success. . I just love the thought process (er, lack therof) of the liberal mind.

Oh yeah, and by the way Bush's college grades were just as good (if not better) than any panty waist libtard that your side has thrown out there in recent times. Of course we are not talking about the empty suit that currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue as we haven't a clue what classes he even took, let alone what his grades were.

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I would say, even without knowing you personally, that a large part of your success, if you're actually what some would even consider successful by today's standards, is largely based on timing, luck and association. I would also go a step further and suggests that a person like George Walker Bush,for example, who was by historical reference, a mediocre student grandfathered in at an Ivy League school, an incompetent businessman, and devastating CIC, risen through the ranks to reach such an esteemed position. Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege? Also, what's the odds of one becoming president just like his daddy? Hard work?

So many of our Presidents did not have a formal education like today and many of them that did were mediocre students at best. Lincoln couldn't even win a debate, but he went on to be one of our greatest Presidents.

Adams family, Roosevelt family and now the Bush family is part of a the family business to these folks. If the Kennedy's had lived they too would have been part of these family business. Each felt love of country and public service is what they should be doing.

Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege?

Now I ask why do you inset race into this thread ? You know its funny that the Repubs are always accused of this, but it seems that the Dems are the ones who bring it up most

[48Laws]

An insult-laced rebuttal is a clear sign of an insecure individual who's success may not really be or is an illusion of his own imagination.

Also, what exactly is a real conservative these days? What's the litmus test? I know, you hate liberals. LMFAO!

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by mspeasl

So many of our Presidents did not have a formal education like today and many of them that did were mediocre students at best. Lincoln couldn't even win a debate, but he went on to be one of our greatest Presidents.

Which is yet another indication that timing, luck and association plays a huge role into the success or shortfall of individuals. As another member mentioned, there are countless people working hard everyday. That doesn't equate to success at all.

Adams family, Roosevelt family and now the Bush family is part of a the family business to these folks. If the Kennedy's had lived they too would have been part of these family business. Each felt love of country and public service is what they should be doing.

Which really isn't a point because the Kennedy's too benefited from white privilege. Their lineage was similar to the Bushes. My comment wasn't about liberal v. conservative regarding privilege. I simply used Bush since the topic is about the POTUS.

Now I ask why do you inset race into this thread ? You know its funny that the Repubs are always accused of this, but it seems that the Dems are the ones who bring it up most

That's like saying, "Why are you talking about ingredients in a culinary arts thread..."

[OldArmy]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege?

Really? You really want to go there? It would only be fair to include affirmative action, racial quotas and preferences in this discussion. How about a small change to your quote, using your logic:

Was his "success" because of hard work or black affirmative action?

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

Really? You really want to go there? It would only be fair to include affirmative action, racial quotas and preferences in this discussion. How about a small change to your quote, using your logic:

Was his "success" because of hard work or black affirmative action?

I'm so pleased you brought those up. Ironically, affirmative action was a necessary reaction to offset the unjust, manipulated placement of non-minorities into positions in which THEY were not themselves necessarily qualified. Moreover, AA today still requires that the beneficiary is qualified first. So, to think unqualified minorities are simply eased on in without first being qualified is another example of racism in and of itself -a double whammy!

But, I think we've digressed enough...

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

AA today still requires that the beneficiary is qualified first. So, to think unqualified minorities are simply eased on in without first being qualified is another example of racism in and of itself -a double whammy!

But, I think we've digressed enough...

I believe we are getting off topic with this one.

But one quick answer and question first.

unqualified minorities: In our local area the police and fire test requirements have been lowered so much to reach the AA quota it is unfair to those who pass the test and could not get the jobs since they were not a minority. Now I ask, is that fair?

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by mspeasl

I believe we are getting off topic with this one.

But one quick answer and question first.

unqualified minorities: In our local area the police and fire test requirements have been lowered so much to reach the AA quota it is unfair to those who pass the test and could not get the jobs since they were not a minority. Now I ask, is that fair?

Can you please expound on how these requirements have been lowered, like in detail? At the amount of idiots I see wearing a badge, I seriously doubt the highest standards are remotely out of reach for the average joe. A real issue I see at first glance, is the height and weight standards that appear to be of little importance for these civil servant jobs. Sloppy. Also, what about the nepotism that has run rampant for these type of careers? I recall when the entire NYPD and FDNY was entirely Italian and Irish! Is that due to hard-work or nepotism and white affirmative action? You tell me, buddy. So, even in the brown and black neighborhoods, you mean to tell me not one back or Hispanic or asian man/women has ambition or the intelligence to serve his or her own community in these positions? They can't make the cut? That's what was said about the Tuskegee Airmen, too, who out-flew and and fought their white pilot counterparts when given the opportunity. Please continue....

Don't get me started on the all black youth Polo team in Philly that's beating the crap out of all their rival Ivy league teams....

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Can you please expound on how these requirements have been lowered, like in detail? At the amount of idiots I see wearing a badge, I seriously doubt the highest standards are remotely out of reach for the average joe. A real issue I see at first glance, is the height and weight standards that appear to be of little importance for these civil servant jobs. Sloppy. Also, what about the nepotism that has run rampant for these type of careers? I recall when the entire NYPD and FDNY was entirely Italian and Irish! Is that due to hard-work or nepotism and white affirmative action? You tell me, buddy. So, even in the brown and black neighborhoods, you mean to tell me not one back or Hispanic or asian man/women has ambition or the intelligence to serve his or her own community in these positions? They can't make the cut? That's what was said about the Tuskegee Airmen, too, who out-flew and and fought their white pilot counterparts when given the opportunity. Please continue....

Don't get me started on the all black youth Polo team in Philly that's beating the crap out of all their rival Ivy league teams....

Sorry, I live in small town mid-America. You must be quite old to recall only Irish and Italian NYPD and FDNY. I really doubt if they have been 100% European for better than 50/60 years. Here in the mid-west we don't have that 1% sport of Polo. Sorry

[48Laws]

Yet your small town mid-America has enough minorities applying for these jobs to change the entire scope of the hiring process??? Riiiiiiiiight.....

[MiddleAgedAl]

Based on what I've seen in my life, I think success (or lack thereof) is a result of several things coming together.

Being smart and working hard helps a LOT, and of course being in the right place at the right time doesnt hurt.
Have a friend who retired at the ripe old age of 43 because he got in with a dot com startup at the right time, they got bought out, and he cashed in his shares for a crazy amount of money. To his credit, he's the first to admit that although his bank account may be twice the size of many of his college buddies, he's not twice as smart as them, nor did he work twice as hard. (none of us were born with silver spoons in our mouths)

BUT, I am also sure he would not try and argue that he benefitted twice as much from the government as they did either.

In fact, nothing that I have EVER seen suggests to me that the government deserves any special credit for this. Yes, they built roads and infrastructure that allowed that dot com to flourish (on the taxpayers dime, of course). And, it goes without saying that those same roads and power lines and infrastructure are available to other dot com startups that failed miserably. And the same teachers taught the ones who did well and the ones who are struggling still.

If the "collective" (government, teachers, however Barry wants to frame it) want to take any special credit for early retirees, then logic dictates that they must also take the blame for failures too. If you didnt succeed on your own, then obviously you didnt fail on your own either. Cant have your cake and eat it too.

Of those two groups of outcomes (rich vs struggling), I wonder which has more members... hmmm... if I was acting on behalf of the collective or the government, seems to me it might make more sense to NOT highlight any cause and effect relationship between the actions of the collective and the success of it's members, otherwise folks might start to notice the lousy rate of return there.

[mspeasl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Yet your small town mid-America has enough minorities applying for these jobs to change the entire scope of the hiring process??? Riiiiiiiiight.....

It wasn't our idea to change the scope of the process. The Fed's mandated that if we wanted new fire trucks or police cars on their dime (yours and mine). We had to lower the test requirements! So like it or not we were bullied into doing so.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I would say, even without knowing you personally, that a large part of your success, if you're actually what some would even consider successful by today's standards, is largely based on timing, luck and association. I would also go a step further and suggests that a person like George Walker Bush,for example, who was by historical reference, a mediocre student grandfathered in at an Ivy League school, an incompetent businessman, and devastating CIC, risen through the ranks to reach such an esteemed position. Was his "success" because of hard work or white privilege? Also, what's the odds of one becoming president just like his daddy? Hard work?

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I'm so pleased you brought those up. Ironically, affirmative action was a necessary reaction to offset the unjust, manipulated placement of non-minorities into positions in which THEY were not themselves necessarily qualified. Moreover, AA today still requires that the beneficiary is qualified first. So, to think unqualified minorities are simply eased on in without first being qualified is another example of racism in and of itself -a double whammy!

But, I think we've digressed enough...

I dont have anything i would be willing to say that would be worth the minimal exertion to type it up. Instead i just wanted to re-post it so everyone can point and laugh at a later date.

Enjoy.

[cssnms]

Scotch is that you????

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by mspeasl

It wasn't our idea to change the scope of the process. The Fed's mandated that if we wanted new fire trucks or police cars on their dime (yours and mine). We had to lower the test requirements! So like it or not we were bullied into doing so.

WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS???? HOW ARE THEY LOWER?