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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > logging with Cobb AP



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      04-11-2012, 12:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gboop View Post
I do my logging with DTC off, and don't see the reason why disabling DSC would make any difference on smooth highway straight line pulls. However, I did some logs today with fully disabled DTC+DSC and still get load overshoots with corresponding throttle closures (highway speeds).

The tune feels great otherwise, but it would be perfect without the boost spikes. I am currently attributing my timing pulls to the last 2 injectors that were not replaced with the recall. Those two cylinders are usually more noisy than the others.
when you press the button once, you will still get intervention, just less than if the system was fully on. I got throttle closure in 3rd gear once at 60 mph and thought it couldn't be traction control but it was.

Spark plugs solved my timing drop issues. Since you think the injectors are the most likely cause, I guess you should start there. Good luck
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      04-11-2012, 06:37 PM   #24
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What about timing pulls with 4.01 Stg 1 ST aggressive with top tier 93 octane all new injectors/coils/plugs/DME/walnut blasting?

They are corrected with some E85 added to the mix..........

Another question, how do you know if the E85 is any good? It is only at one station here and there is NEVER anyone there getting it. It must be old.

T

Last edited by Mangler; 04-11-2012 at 06:52 PM.
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      04-11-2012, 07:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
What about timing pulls with 4.01 Stg 1 ST aggressive with top tier 93 octane all new injectors/coils/plugs/DME/walnut blasting?

They are corrected with some E85 added to the mix..........

Another question, how do you know if the E85 is any good? It is only at one station here and there is NEVER anyone there getting it. It must be old.

T
I get timing pulls as well on that map, not sure where you are located but i think its just too aggressive for the Florida heat.
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      04-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lulz_M3 View Post
I get timing pulls as well on that map, not sure where you are located but i think its just too aggressive for the Florida heat.
I was at sea level and around 65*F today with some tests. I don't think its the heat unless the inside of the IC is all coated and gummed up with sludge like the rest of the intake path. Charge air 88>115*F on 3rd gear pull form 3000>6700rpm.

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      04-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
What about timing pulls with 4.01 Stg 1 ST aggressive with top tier 93 octane all new injectors/coils/plugs/DME/walnut blasting?

They are corrected with some E85 added to the mix..........

Another question, how do you know if the E85 is any good? It is only at one station here and there is NEVER anyone there getting it. It must be old.

T
Are the timing pulls sudden 3 degree drops?

If they are corrected with e85 then the tune is too aggressive for you particular conditions.
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      04-11-2012, 08:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Are the timing pulls sudden 3 degree drops?

If they are corrected with e85 then the tune is too aggressive for you particular conditions.
Cyl #1 and #4 immediately went -3 at WOT in 3rd gear at 2500rpm then taper off by 3500 and no pulls from there on out.

T
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      04-11-2012, 08:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
Cyl #1 and #4 immediately went -3 at WOT in 3rd gear at 2500rpm then taper off by 3500 and no pulls from there on out.

T
2500 RPM is a strong load and high torque load and at the onset of boost. I wouldnt be as concerned with timing drop there as I would with something 3500+

When ATR comes out you can likely dial down the boost in that and/or reduce ignition. Or get a protune. Or go to a less aggressive map.
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      04-11-2012, 08:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
2500 RPM is a strong load and high torque load and at the onset of boost. I wouldnt be as concerned with timing drop there as I would with something 3500+

When ATR comes out you can likely dial down the boost in that and/or reduce ignition. Or get a protune. Or go to a less aggressive map.
is it a torque requested overshoot? Its not knock unless <1v in addition to the torque req parameters make it pull timing.

When are they going to put ION sensing on these engines......

T
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      04-12-2012, 11:35 AM   #31
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When I look at a log, I always like to view the original .csv file, and the first thing I look at is individual cylinder timing correction. Which cylinders are "noisy" varies from car to car, so viewing all them at the same time gives you a good idea of overall timing correction. Correction in 1, 2, or sometimes even 3 cylinders under load would be somewhat normal. But, consistent timing correction in 3+ cylinders under load typically means the tune is too aggressive for the car.

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      04-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #32
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Bear in mind that it takes a few days for the car to adapt to the new map.
When I first flashed Stg2+ aggressive, i had timingdrops on 3 cylinders(immediately after switching to 4th gear). But after giving the car a few days to adapt, now i have none at all.
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      09-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #33
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I'm just beginning to learn to read my own logs. So far, I think things look pretty good - the only thing I've noticed is an occasional timing correction and a single TPS closure (always between 1-2 gear). Had one in all three logs, but different cylinder in each log, at different rpms, and only one correction in the whole log (1-2-3 gear pulls, since when I floor it it always downshifts to 1 - at leat I think it does?). Are these something to look into, or pretty normal?

Running Stage 1 sport on stock E93 N54 right now. Want to live with that for a while until I move up to aggressive (both to enjoy a the power bump twice, and to watch the logs to make sure the car is liking the tune).

EDIT: the TPS may be closure induced by DTC/DSC, since I know I forgot to turn it off in the first log. In the last one, it's in exactly the same place - bet I forgot again.....
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      09-16-2012, 05:11 PM   #34
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Ocassional 3.xx corrections aren't a huge concern. Throttle closures are likely traction control related if in 1st gear.
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      09-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Ocassional 3.xx corrections aren't a huge concern. Throttle closures are likely traction control related if in 1st gear.
Cool, thanks. Actually, going back there were only timing corrections in 2 of three pulls, both just a single cylindar, not the same one. And the throttle closures were both exactly in the same place, shifting from 1-2 right when torque would start building, so I think are most likely the computer trying to play LSD (or I forgot to disable DTC/DSC). But doesn't happen in 2-3 or 3-4.

Once I get a log that is decent (remembering to disable DTC/DSC, good start, etc) will post to make sure I'm reading it right....but this is a huge help.
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      09-16-2012, 06:50 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Ocassional 3.xx corrections aren't a huge concern. Throttle closures are likely traction control related if in 1st gear.
duplicate
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      09-16-2012, 07:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew_b View Post
Cool, thanks. Actually, going back there were only timing corrections in 2 of three pulls, both just a single cylindar, not the same one. And the throttle closures were both exactly in the same place, shifting from 1-2 right when torque would start building, so I think are most likely the computer trying to play LSD (or I forgot to disable DTC/DSC). But doesn't happen in 2-3 or 3-4.

Once I get a log that is decent (remembering to disable DTC/DSC, good start, etc) will post to make sure I'm reading it right....but this is a huge help.
Be sure to disable traction control next time and while your're logging get a couple multi gear logs and atleast one single gear pull, preferably 3rd gear. Be sure to use the default logging channels.

If the throttle closure is not traction control related you're probably overshooting boost targets.
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      09-16-2012, 09:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Be sure to disable traction control next time and while your're logging get a couple multi gear logs and atleast one single gear pull, preferably 3rd gear. Be sure to use the default logging channels.
Only thing I'm not sure how to do is to get a single gear pull in 2nd or 3rd, since the auto downshifts...which is why I began with just starting the log and keeping it running until after the upshift to 4th, then parsing the log out. Tips on how to get pure single gear pull with the auto tranny appreciated.

Quote:
If the throttle closure is not traction control related you're probably overshooting boost targets.
So looking at the two logs again, I'm wondering if it's indeed overboost induced. In both of the cases of TPS closure, the boost mean is higher than the boost requested.

pull 1: boost mean: 32.15, boost req: 29.71, TPS dropped to 40.03%
pull 2: boost mean: 31.32, boost req: 29.45, TPS dropped to 58.92%

Both occured at the bottom of the RPM drop (4590 and 4572) when it shifted from 1st to 2nd.

If that is what is causing it, what can be done?
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      09-16-2012, 09:18 PM   #39
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Ok, looking closer...further down the graph, in the shift from 2-3, the boost mean and requested boost do almost exactly the same thing (I mean, almost identical numbers), and no TPS closure.

But the overshoot (difference) is less - under 1.

Need more logged pulls I guess....
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      09-16-2012, 10:17 PM   #40
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I have a manual transmission and have only spent a couple days driving a 6AT so I can't give you any real great tips, however i've read from a few guys that if you're VERY careful with it in M mode you can feel it hit a stop before it hits the kick down button.

Before making any attempt to fix any boost over shoots you need to be sure that's what's going on. If the throttle closes because of traction control then it will cause a boost spike(the TMAP sensor is pre-throttle body, so that means that throttle plate closures will spike boost pressure in the charge pipe.) Get some good DSC off 3rd gear logs.

IF YOU'RE HAVING BOOST OVERSHOOT CLOSURES:
In order to fix the boost over shoot you'll need to use the ATR software.
There are a couple ways to do it(in MOST cases, some cases may require special attention but yours should be taken care of.)

1)This is the more involved, but most accurate way.
Log Boost setpoint factor and MAF req WGDC and then back off the values(a good rule of thumb is reduce the current value by 10%) in the WGDC base table around where the boost overshoots occur.

2)This is the quicker, dirtier way of doing it. It shouldn't cause any problems but it's just not the preferred way IMO.
Simply open the WGDC base table and reduce ALL cells by 10%. So 57% becomes 51.3%, 6% becomes 5.4% etc...
It still takes a couple minutes but is a little less involved.

Once you make an adjustment then save the map and flash it to the car and log and see how it looks. If it's good then you're done, if not repeat.

Last edited by Ænema; 09-16-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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      09-17-2012, 12:30 AM   #41
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1-2 gear wont look clean. logs should be taken in 3-4 gear.
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      09-17-2012, 07:12 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
I have a manual transmission and have only spent a couple days driving a 6AT so I can't give you any real great tips, however i've read from a few guys that if you're VERY careful with it in M mode you can feel it hit a stop before it hits the kick down button.
You can definitely feel the "kickdown" point. I don't know if when you are right at that without triggering the downshift f you're WOT - might be, will play around with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
1-2 gear wont look clean. logs should be taken in 3-4 gear.
So should I really just ignore the data from 1-2? So far, it looks like the closure is always right at the 1-2 shift point. 2-3 and 3-4 (the data between the spikes where the shifts are) all look really good (as far as I can see) except for a single timing correction on 1 cylinder (different cyl in each pull).
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