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      09-17-2012, 04:19 PM   #1
RagingKileak
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Stutter on startup - N54 335i

Gents,

Couple of times this evening (once when cool and once when warmish having been sat for an hour or so) the car turned over a little bit on starting up.

Tried it once or twice when home (after a drive) and it was fine.

I about to experience coil, injector or some other PITA problem?

Thanks
Matt
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      09-17-2012, 04:24 PM   #2
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Can you describe the problem more? When you say stutter, do you mean where it "semi-catches" a few times before it "catches" and the engine starts.
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      09-17-2012, 04:34 PM   #3
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That's more or less it, although the way you've described it sounds a bit more serious than the way I would. But more or less fits the bill.

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      09-18-2012, 12:47 AM   #4
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Do you mean it cranked on the starter a bit more?

If so then its your hpfp starting to give up matey.
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      09-18-2012, 01:30 AM   #5
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That sounds about right. At 23,000 miles? What a bastard.

I take it there is no extended warranty on that? What's the damage approx and what happens next in terms of degradation?

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      09-18-2012, 01:54 AM   #6
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You could try for goodwill.

The pump is around 250 iirc..
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      09-18-2012, 02:22 AM   #7
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Bit less worried now.

Seen a few options and none are insanely pricey at least.

Anyone know if a DIY is possible with this?

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      09-18-2012, 02:44 AM   #8
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may be hpfp, but its by no means a definite.

Hpfp part is 250 + VAT. It needed diagnostics done on it (1 hr £120), labour (1.5 hours at ~£170) and coding to the car (1hr £120). Got mine changed at the dealers last week under my extended warranty. It would have cost around £710 if I hasn't have had my warranty.
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      09-18-2012, 02:54 AM   #9
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Bollocks. Coding required?

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      09-18-2012, 03:25 AM   #10
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Darren Wood BMW told me it was a plug and play straight swap, no 'coding' required. Of course an indy would put it on the machine to check all was ok, maybe reset FP adaptations, but they wouldn't charge for that over the labour.

The diagnostics are useless unless its so bad it is generating fault codes.

Mine was long cranking badly but it passed all the BMW fault finding tests and made no codes, so after having the car for 2 days and taking it home, BMW still refused to change it.

I had to send the service mananger a video of the long cranks for him to believe me and agree to change it under factory warranty (2 yrs old, 22k miles).

The only issue is leaving the car to cool for several hours as high pressure fuel can spray out of the hose unions, so it needs the engine bay to be coolish.

If no joy with BMW, give Darren Wood BMW a ring, at least they'll tell you the truth. (maybe give DW a ring anyway just to see)
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Last edited by doughboy; 09-18-2012 at 03:31 AM.
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      09-18-2012, 03:51 AM   #11
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I'd wait for codes and get an Indy to replace.

DIY is possible too, you could get the intake valves cleaned at the same time.
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      09-18-2012, 05:09 AM   #12
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I'd put my money on the hpfp...

Plus one on what Mike said...if you can't get goodwill from bmw, send it to Woods...
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      09-18-2012, 05:32 AM   #13
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Thanks for all the advice so far chaps.

I have a friend who works for Walon in Doncaster and may be able to cover the labour for nothing. May even get the part at a reduced rate.

I also have a couple of irons in the fire regarding getting a used HPFP from a source which I know to be reliable, or I could just buy one new.

As for coding/fitting - thanks for confirming what I suspected which is that it should be plug and play. I watched the guys at Statlers change my Golf HPFP and it looked fairly easy (of messy) so I'll consider a DIY.

As for fault codes/diagnostics - to be honest my code reader isn't finding anything and from what Doughboy says, it sounds like shag and hassle for what may be nothing.

If I can get it fixed for anything up to say 250 ish I will just bloody do it. That way, if my problems continue I can sell my part as a working/used part for some other poor bugger and I'll only be about 150 worse off I suppose.

DB how long have I got until it starts failing to start do you think?

Thanks again.
Matt

PS - something I've not mentioned is that se of the poor running I experienced during hard driving at the Ring seems to tie in with the other symptoms that are often recorded. Could just be convincing myself of that but there you go.
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      09-18-2012, 05:35 AM   #14
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I have a good condition working HPFP if you're interested. I only replaced it as I had the turbos/clutch/water pump/thermostat etc done at the same time and the engine was taken out so it was a 10 minute job for them.
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      09-18-2012, 05:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idnan View Post
I have a good condition working HPFP if you're interested. I only replaced it as I had the turbos/clutch/water pump/thermostat etc done at the same time and the engine was taken out so it was a 10 minute job for them.
Feel free to drop me a PM with your price and some details mate.

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      09-18-2012, 05:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Feel free to drop me a PM with your price and some details mate.

Matt
Just sent you one mate
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      09-18-2012, 06:00 AM   #17
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Got it mate and replied.

Just found a DIY that reckons DP's out and so on.... Sounds like a big labour job. Will call Darren Wood...

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      09-18-2012, 07:02 AM   #18
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Yeh the HPFP is fairly deep down and a bitch to get to. I really really wouldn't bother getting a used HPFP.

My HPFP showed absolutely no signs of dying until one day it gave up. Buying a used one is a false economy. I would definitely recommend trying to get some goodwill from BMW as, although they will refuse to admit there is a problem with HPFP's on the 335i (hahaha good one) they are very inclined to giving good will gestures on them (strange that eh?!).

I would also recommend waiting until you start generating fault codes. If you're suffering from long cranks, it won't be long until the HPFP starts giving up completely and therefore generating some codes. When you get these codes, you should take it to be repaired.

It'll be at least 300 for the pump + diagnostic charges + labour from anywhere, not just a main dealers, so you could easily say goodbye to 450 from an specialist or 700 from a dealer.

RE: your fault code reader - you'll need a good one to pick up these codes. A basic one picked up nothing on mine, a good one that the BMW Assist guy had picked up one unspecified fault code, and the main dealers one picked up everything in detail.
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      09-18-2012, 07:40 AM   #19
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You'll need a Bavarian Technic lead to be sure of picking up all th BMW specific codes.

Agree - never buy a used pump - there's been about 10 itterations of the pump over a few years with only the later one being 'fixed'.

The current real oem should show the latest part number.
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      09-18-2012, 07:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingKileak View Post
Got it mate and replied.

Just found a DIY that reckons DP's out and so on.... Sounds like a big labour job. Will call Darren Wood...

Matt
Bad DIY guide Matt - Its just under the intake manifold on the air filter side of the engine, usually they drop off the plastic manifold for access.

Gear driven too, so no messy belts or chains.

Undo feed and HP lines, one electrical plug to undo, that's it.

About 1 to 2 hours tops including diags etc by any decent indy, (plus cool down waiting time)
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Last edited by doughboy; 09-18-2012 at 07:48 AM.
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      09-18-2012, 08:18 AM   #21
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Thanks again Gents,

I have gone with a used one as the price was very attractive and the labour I've been quoted by Darren Wood was very reasonable. Booked in for next Tuesday for a total cost which I can live with.

I realise the possibility of a false economy, but I trust the sellers word on this occasion and I will also honour the offer I made elsewhere - which will give me a spare one if need be.

Hopefully that will be it, but if not I can get DW to change it again and still be quids in.

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      09-18-2012, 12:49 PM   #22
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Occasionally my car will take 3-4 cranks to start (sometime from cold othertimes warm, usually it starts up in 1 crank). Hasn't got any worse in the last few months and even with JB4 on Map2 no hesitation on WOT runs up to the legal limit.

Been thinking about getting the valve intakes cleaned somewhere, might get the HPFP replaced with the latest version whilst its in. The only place I know of that does valve cleaning is Birds, anyone know of anywhere in the midlands that offer the vale cleaning service?
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