[48Laws]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Didnt ignore them, they were addressed in earlier posts, if you took the time to read. Must I not only provide the food, but cut it up and then spoon feed it to you? Fine... Post #40 in this thread contains a link to a CNN article which points out quite clearly that Obama supporters ARE clearly more likely to consume entitlements. Nationally, in the 18-29yr old bracket alone, 14% of Romney supporters are unemployed, while almost a third of Obama supporters are unemployed. States with the highest unemployment such as Calif are overwhelming Obama fans. If you are unemployed, you are probably consuming entitlements (unless you are living off a rich parent), and you are obviously more likely to fall into the 47% who pay no federal income taxes. Or, say you have a job, but its crappy and pays no benefits: Democrats rely heavily on the support of of voters who are the most likely to be uninsured for health care (blacks are 22% uninsured, latinos 32% uninsured, and these folks DONT support Romney. Whites are 14% uninsured.)

So, your strategy is to address me by replying to another member? Are you that intellectually lazy or just skillfully deceptive? Your links are buried randomly in your nonsense.

HOW COULD YOU OVERLOOK THIS ...

"Unfortunately, we don't have reliable or consistent data on the political preferences of the unemployed. The numbers we do have are fragmentary.
"

Even your own article has no answer for the 25% of undecided voters, genius...as it cannot be determined what they vote.

18-29 is hardly a fair index of Obama voters and you must be on crack cocaine if you're surprised that age bracket has relatively high unemployment or reliance on bennies. HAHAHAHAHA. Are you serious?

And that article must have been written by captain obvious since it implied red v. blue states just with an urban/minority twist to it. What is your point? And the 14% uninsured Rmoney relies on for votes DOES NOT take into account married couples, where one spouse is jobless and using the other person's benefits. But, you'd have to know the dynamics between minority v. white families and urban v suburban. Many minorities don't have credit cards to finance their period of underemployment. Most of their transactions are cash only. And if you're renting, getting evicted is a lot quicker than getting foreclosed which takes months, so, Captain Obvious, that 14% may be underrepresented since they may have other means to float their joblessness but that doesn't mean they are less dependent on benefits. It just implies they don't need them as quickly to maintain whatever they have.

Also...
"This hardly settles the question, but the fact that the president fares so well with demographic groups that have experienced higher unemployment rates is nevertheless suggestive." That's right...suggestive.

SOURCE: http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/opinio...ney/index.html

Awesome cut & paste job.

The point is that the actions taken to earn a scholarship are usually considered to be honorable, positive, desirable accomplishments (high grades for example). The attributes you must possess to collect Medicaid, for example, are not those of high achievement, but usually are signs of low achievement, at least fiscally speaking. Nobody says "hooray, now I'm finally making so little I qualify for more entitlements" Let me put it this way: in the animal kingdom, those people accepting the handout of Medicaid would be the squirrels who didnt sock away enough nuts to survive the winter. While Social Security may not be a handout because you have paid into it (so essentially you are just cashing out your investment), stuff like Medicaid and food stamps are handouts.

This is not a question of what is or isn't honorable. This is a determination of what should be considered a handout or why one helping-hand is not as good as another type of helping-hand. A university's accreditation and ranking partially relies on the performance of its students, so paying the good ones is in the university's best interest first. Maintaining the health of a nation is in the gov't best interest, too since the strength of a nation begins with our well being. How about we address the low interest loans or option to defer payment students receive upon graduation? What about the huge debts these students graduates with? That seems like an equal burden on the system if you ask me. Maybe they are the 18-29 year olds on unemployment.

Obviously the grants to children of parents killed while defending their country are on the honorable, positive accomplishment side. To suggest I would feel otherwise without any evidence of that is really reaching and putting disingenuous words in my mouth, just as you have done with others. Not terribly impressive; hard for me to take pride in dismantling that sort of feckless argument.

I can only reply to what you've written and you made it quite clear that grants are handouts without first educating yourself about the various grants available. Do you want me to cut up your food and spoon feed you, too?

I take no joy from others failures. Because others havent achieved, my taxes must go to support them. If they had all achieved, that would be more desirable for me, as my taxes could be lowered with no loss of service. Joy is not watching others struggle, joy would be that everyone makes enough money that there is nobody who doesnt pay income taxes. If YOU are so concerned about others, then why did you say that you didnt care if the entitlement pots run out of money due to demographic changes, because you were not relying on them for support when you are old?

You can't even pinpoint how much of your salary goes to help these people, so what the hell are you babbling about? That just sounds like a romantic response about taxes that has become all too familiar. This is what was said;

Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
It's a problem, definitely. But only if one is using SS as a back up plan to sustain themselves in their later years. I'm not.

What? This makes no sense. I did drag my proverbial ass out of the mud to help them. Now I'm making enough money to be taxed, and that money pays their salaries. Same thing with the military.

My point is, we all benefit from our neighbors. You'd gladly pay your taxes if you knew what it took to police the world and our borders. Not saying you don't appreciate it, but everything affects everything.

Once again, as I've explained before, if we didnt bail out GM, those billions of dollars would have not vanished into thin air. We could have used it to support other employers, those who dont pay dropouts $30 an hour to drop a bolt in a hole. I would argue that those dollars spent elsewhere could have created more jobs than what we lost if GM sank. Hell, GM is losing almost 50 grand for each Volt sold. http://www.businessinsider.com/gm-is...lt-sold-2012-9 Are you happy with that investment of your money ?

Wow. You're incredibly disgusting. You marginalize blue-collar workers because they chose a certain profession? Yeah, you have no class. $30/hour to bend, twist, lift and stand on your feet t for a number of hours while you help earn CEO millions a year??? . I'd say that's a fair wage.

Who said I can't handle an opposing view? You are the one who said you were tired of others comments. I find this whole discussion quite amusing. I would love to say it's enlightening or educational, but really, it's more amusing...

You can't. Which is why a member who can't even defend himself still torments you. The only thing laughable is your allegiance to this elite group of Americans based on how much money you think you earn. That can all be taken away an instant. I can't tell you came from nothing.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Wow. You're incredibly disgusting. You marginalize blue-collar workers because they chose a certain profession? Yeah, you have no class. $30/hour to bend, twist, lift and stand on your feet t for a number of hours while you help earn CEO millions a year??? . I'd say that's a fair wage.
.

Wow... you are definitely the master of outrageous, irrational hyperbole.

First you concluded that if someone doesn't like handouts, that must mean they want the children of killed soldiers to suffer, and now you are stating that I am marginalizing all blue collar workers? I cannot imagine what you will come up with next.

First of all, you are really stretching with the use of the term "profession" to describe what they do: From wikipedia : "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized high educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" Use any other source if you like, the result will be the same. They have a job, but it is not a profession, unless you also think that someone who digs a ditch with a shovel to be a professional too.

I know firsthand, people who end up dropping a bolt in a hole on an assembly line did not CHOOSE that after careful consideration, and then dedicate years of their life for prepatory training to get there. They usually fall into it because the union assures it pays well, and the only real barrier to entry is that one possesses opposable thumbs, and the ability to repeat a very rudimentary set of instructions over and over again. Any simple, repetitive task that you could literally train a bonobo monkey to perform in NOT a profession.

Obviously you must not know many blue collar workers, or you would realize that is not always the case. My neighbor is a ticketed Machinist. Not only does that involve a lot of formalized training before one could even begin to be useful, but also he did an apprenticeship that lasted over 3 years if I recall, before he was fully accredited. I have no problem with blue collar workers like that making good money. That is a profession.

You want to talk disgusting? How about the fact the median wage for Nurses is approx 64K a year. Yes, that means that a assembly line worker with lots of seniority who gets enough overtime could make MORE than a nurse. This is also a job that is physically demanding, requires standing on your feet all day, bending, twisting, lifting. Only it required MUCH more training, and the results of a mistake can literally kill people. If Dick Dropout fails to bolt a wheel on properly, it will be caught by QA before it hits the showroom. If Nancy nurse makes a slight miscalculation on some IV drip, that could end up being fatal. The fact that their compensation is even remotely similar is beyond disgusting to me. But, I suppose a left-wing view is that it's good that everyone is paid the same, as utopia is achieved when the outcomes of peoples personal decisions are equalized.

[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

An open letter to the Republican Party Leadership--

Dear Leadership/candidates/other influencers,

Let's try to stay on task kids. I don't want you to start steering the debate into the social/moral/conservative nanny realm. I want you to stay with the focus of limited government, rational taxes and the economy. I don't want you to divert the conversation into marriage, gays, abortion, religious freedom, contraception, god's place in your life or anything else. It's a loser and there is no persuading anyone. The republican party will lose the independents--they will walk away or stay home in droves come November. And we will lose the presidential election BY A LANDSLIDE. You've got to focus--making Obama a one-term president. Just for the next few months quick dicking around with the private choices of the people and get back on message and address the big picture, the main event. And if you can't get the radical right to cooperate at least have the balls to kick them to the curb and deal with the consequences. Nobody wants you in their personal lives--you aren't qualified for that duty.

Damn!

(OK, back to our regularly scheduled political programming....)

Well I must say I agree. Oh and by the way... If you're trying to be president it's probably not a good idea to scapegoat and completely write off half of the electorate as lazy moochers. Especially don't do it while pandering to super rich out of touch doners. It just looks bad. And even though you have utter contempt for them, you never know, you just might need those lazy moocher's votes in a pinch.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Wow... you are definitely the master of outrageous, irrational hyperbole.

How am I the outrageous one when you just marginalized hard-working Americans? Is that acceptable? I know...I know...I put words into your mouth, right? You stated..."those who dont pay dropouts $30 an hour to drop a bolt in a hole.". Is that a Rmoney-like slip-up that wasn't as elegant as it could've been? Are you an elitist? Tell us how you really feel about these folks.

First you concluded that if someone doesn't like handouts, that must mean they want the children of killed soldiers to suffer, and now you are stating that I am marginalizing all blue collar workers? I cannot imagine what you will come up with next.

Actually, you generalized college grants as being handouts because you have absolutely no clue as to why these funds are accessible to certain students. My quip was to inform you, grants are far more dignified than just free money and handouts, buddy.

First of all, you are really stretching with the use of the term "profession" to describe what they do: From wikipedia : "A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized high educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" Use any other source if you like, the result will be the same. They have a job, but it is not a profession, unless you also think that someone who digs a ditch with a shovel to be a professional too.

You can split hairs until you're blue in the face.

I know firsthand, people who end up dropping a bolt in a hole on an assembly line did not CHOOSE that after careful consideration, and then dedicate years of their life for prepatory training to get there. They usually fall into it because the union assures it pays well, and the only real barrier to entry is that one possesses opposable thumbs, and the ability to repeat a very rudimentary set of instructions over and over again. Any simple, repetitive task that you could literally train a bonobo monkey to perform in NOT a profession.

You are extremely condescending. The same can be said about the military or pretty much any civil servant career. The point is, we need people who are willing to do these jobs. Why or how they got there is irrelevant and you seem to be stuck on the irrelevant to prove some obscure elitist point without just stating your clear contempt. It's a dignified job hardworking, tax-paying Americans do. There is a plethora of highly-educated, highly-trained, incompetent,lazy, greedy attorneys out there, too, for example. How do you rank them on worthiness?

Obviously you must not know many blue collar workers, or you would realize that is not always the case. My neighbor is a ticketed Machinist. Not only does that involve a lot of formalized training before one could even begin to be useful, but also he did an apprenticeship that lasted over 3 years if I recall, before he was fully accredited. I have no problem with blue collar workers like that making good money. That is a profession.

"Blue collar workers like that..." What does that even mean? The nature of the job dictates the intensity of the training. And with the advancement of technology in this industry,I'm certain less involvement is necessary to build a car. Certain concessions were made due to the lost of jobs and perhaps the current wage is a reflection of that. That's standard and fair. You can't fault individuals for not being an Astrophysicist. It is what it is. A living wage is necessary. Having the opportunity to make something of one's life is necessary. Ironically, These $30/hour folks who you chide are tax payers.. Are home owners... Are shareholders.

You want to talk disgusting? How about the fact the median wage for Nurses is approx 64K a year. Yes, that means that a assembly line worker with lots of seniority who gets enough overtime could make MORE than a nurse. This is also a job that is physically demanding, requires standing on your feet all day, bending, twisting, lifting. Only it required MUCH more training, and the results of a mistake can literally kill people. If Dick Dropout fails to bolt a wheel on properly, it will be caught by QA before it hits the showroom. If Nancy nurse makes a slight miscalculation on some IV drip, that could end up being fatal. The fact that their compensation is even remotely similar is beyond disgusting to me. But, I suppose a left-wing view is that it's good that everyone is paid the same, as utopia is achieved when the outcomes of peoples personal decisions are equalized.

Sure, lets talk disgusting using your logic...But clearly you have no problem with a nurse doing the job of a highly-trained, board-certified doctor who earns 3 maybe 4 times more than them sitting idle signing off on prescriptions while his/her nurse is actually there with the patient day-in and day-out. Meanwhile the nurse is topped-out salary-wise yet is doing the duty of an actual doctor in most cases. Your argument is so retarded it leaps out of one industry and overlooks the obvious to scold another industry. How laughable is this?


BTW, a bartender in Miami, for example, can earn more than a nurse. Go cry in the mirror.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

BTW, a bartender in Miami, for example, can earn more than a nurse. Go cry in the mirror.

Bottom line: is that a GOOD thing, in your mind ? Do you think society will benefit when kids compare the lifestyle, and decide, "gee, why would I want to study hard, and then end up dealing with shit (literally) once I do find a job, when I can just become a bartender and make more money for less effort".

Is that really an incentive we want to create for the youth ? There's already a shortage of health care workers, and as the population ages, that demand will just increase.

No different than those who just fall into some menial job whose compensation is disproportionate to it's difficulty because of some union. Once again that creates an incentive. Kids start just phoning it in during high school, why pay attention at all when they can end up with a lifestyle just as good as someone who busted their ass. Is that really what we want the kids to be aiming at ?

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

[NYCGP]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

You mean like our parents and grandparents? As much as my parents and their friends like to look at my generation and chastise us, they need to understand it is them who made us this way. They created the monster that is Generation Me.

My friends parents are pushing him into a government job. Because he will get paid more than his counterparts in the private sector. He will be impossible to fire and get paid the rest of his life. Ahhhhh the union life style... isn't it grand?

While those who live that life style scoff at those who choose to take the risk in opening their own business or working hard without the guarantee that the gov't is going to be there to back them up. When the risk takers end up making more money and spending more money.. They are the pigs.. the greedy elitists.. the 1%..

Wonderful country we live in.. Those who CHOOSE to be drones can openly berate those who want more. Why shouldn't they? Our own president has no respect for business owners... why should the people of the USA.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Bottom line: is that a GOOD thing, in your mind ? Do you think society will benefit when kids compare the lifestyle, and decide, "gee, why would I want to study hard, and then end up dealing with shit (literally) once I do find a job, when I can just become a bartender and make more money for less effort".

Is that really an incentive we want to create for the youth ? There's already a shortage of health care workers, and as the population ages, that demand will just increase.

No different than those who just fall into some menial job whose compensation is disproportionate to it's difficulty because of some union. Once again that creates an incentive. Kids start just phoning it in during high school, why pay attention at all when they can end up with a lifestyle just as good as someone who busted their ass. Is that really what we want the kids to be aiming at ?

Maybe that's exactly what the kids in Asia today with a real understanding of what a "work ethic" is are counting on. It will make the final stages of the eventual financial takeover that much easier.

Oh, please. Spare me. IT IS a good thing when an enterprising individual has options to earn a decent living. Everyone isn't cut out to be a scholar, engineer or pilot. That's a romantic view. Yes, in America, one can achieve their goal, no matter what those goals are, by simply perfecting their craft or if they choose to, by simply going to work. As long as it's an honest living, I have no issue with it. You must really be tormenting yourself by knowing the salaries of bad actors, untalented athletes and reality stars.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by NYCGP

My friends parents are pushing him into a government job. Because he will get paid more than his counterparts in the private sector. He will be impossible to fire and get paid the rest of his life. Ahhhhh the union life style... isn't it grand?

Yes, I've heard that before too. The funny thing is, people who think that way dont understand basic economics. They dont understand that it's the non-union people who make the union lifestyle even possible.

They think EVERYONE should go join union, and get paid a lot for doing little. The thing is, the only reason system is (barely) sustainable at all as it is because of the fact that not everyone is in a union.

If you push a broom in a Sony TV factory, it takes you X hours of work to buy one of the new Sony TVs.
If everyone, including that broom pusher, now got union wages of $30/hour, that would great right? Wrong.

What happens then is that the cost to operate the factory is now so much higher, that Sony can no longer even break even selling TV's at the old price. So now they either stop production, or crank up the price.

So now the broom pusher still has to work the same X hours he worked before to buy the same TV. Sure, all the numbers are higher, but the end result is the same, his lifestyle has not improved. Same thing applies to groceries, clothes, etc.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

You must really be tormenting yourself by knowing the salaries of bad actors, untalented athletes and reality stars.

Oh no, I'm too busy being tormented by the ghosts of other online posters to be tormented by the Situation. Or have you forgotten that post of yours already?

I do hope you write all your own material, because if you get help with that, you may want to ask for some kind of refund...

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Oh no, I'm too busy being tormented by the ghosts of other online posters to be tormented by the Situation. Or have you forgotten that post of yours already?

I do hope you write all your own material, because if you get help with that, you may want to ask for some kind of refund...

You were just crying about the salaries of unskilled labor. You sound like a commie.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

You were just crying about the salaries of unskilled labor. You sound like a commie.

Yes I sure was. So, commies are famous for advocating for the reduction of influence of big unions, and would like to lower the salaries of unskilled labor?

Do tell....