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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Active Autowerke | N52 Signature Exhaust



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      09-27-2012, 09:23 AM   #309
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      09-27-2012, 10:00 AM   #310
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I did not expect that result.

Did the dyno'd car have any supporting mods like an AA tune?
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      09-27-2012, 10:09 AM   #311
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k&n filter and charcoal delete. We did 3 runs of each and took the highest from both.
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      09-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #312
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What car is that dyno off of? The graph looks weird for a N51/2

More torque than power and only 168whp? What gives?
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      09-27-2012, 05:48 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
What car is that dyno off of? The graph looks weird for a N51/2

More torque than power and only 168whp? What gives?
Don't confuse dyno data (RWHP/RWTQ) with BMW reported specs. Car manufacturer's report Engine HP/TQ - not at the wheels, so their ratings are always higher than what the car sees when the rubber meets the road

Normal drivetrain losses can be between 15 & 19% by the time the power gets to the wheels depending on type of DT (Man/Auto/RWD/AWD) so dyno results are more realistic.

HP is a number derived thru calculation using actual dyno measured Torque:

Power [HP] = T [ft.lb] . RPM / 5252

Torque is the static measurement of the how much work an engine does while power is a measure of how fast the work is being done. Since horsepower is calculated from torque, what we are all seeking is really the greatest possible torque value over the broadest rpm range we can get. Different combinations of torque and rpm can yield the same horsepower. Therefore a slow revving engine needs a high torque to produce the same amount of horsepower as a fast revving engine.



Of the different type of dyno's available - the Mustang Dyno will always yield lower results over say, a Dyno Jet due to how it loads the car in real time, and lends itself to be a closer simulation to actual driving. I always have my Trans Am dynoed & tuned using a Mustang Dyno
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      09-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post

HP is a number derived thru calculation using actual dyno measured Torque:

Power [HP] = T [ft.lb] . RPM / 5252
Given the calculation, shouldn't the percentage loss be the same for both TQ and HP? I see the HP loss being twice TQ.

Here's another AA graph using a mustang dyno. HP reads higher in each run than TQ.

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      09-27-2012, 06:31 PM   #315
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They definitely could have rescaled the graph to yield easier to understand power under the curve (which is what is really important).

At any rate, a lot of people like to use dyno results as 'bragging rites' There are way too many variables that come into play during a dyno run, & a skilled operator can even skew the results if he wishes.

You may find that a car with less HP/TQ dyno results blows your doors off even when your results are supposedly higher

Dyno results are more useful as a 'measuring stick' - get a baseline, then successive dyno runs after subsequent modding/tuning let you know if your efforts are headed in the right direction...
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      09-27-2012, 06:35 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrngway View Post
Given the calculation, shouldn't the percentage loss be the same for both TQ and HP? I see the HP loss being twice TQ.

Here's another AA graph using a mustang dyno. HP reads higher in each run than TQ.

Normally that is the case, but I have seen dyno chart results where TQ is Higher.

On my T/A, using Mustang Dyno, at last run using the modded LS1 (before I switched to Lingenfelter 427) I was getting 426 RWHP/418 RWTQ N/A without running the nitrous
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      09-27-2012, 06:38 PM   #317
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Sorry, WS6...I revised my earlier post as the graphs I was seeing didn't support one of my points.

Anywho...Even in the one I posted, while the HP is higher than TQ the drivetrain loss for both HP and TQ is different. Maybe it has something to do with the chart scaling or the way the dyno was set up.

Yeah, on an LS1 you'd expect TQ to be higher. Weird.

Regardless, if it was set up the same for all runs there were definite gains in both power and TQ.

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      09-27-2012, 08:53 PM   #318
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Thanks for the explanation of horsepower vs. torque and dynometer variables. My point still stands: this dyno graph makes no sense given that we are talking n51/n52 here. HP is showing 27% divetrain loss and TQ only 12% from stock. This is a bullshit dyno.
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      09-27-2012, 09:20 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
What car is that dyno off of? The graph looks weird for a N51/2

More torque than power and only 168whp? What gives?

It was dynoed using rolling speed our obdII was acting up unfortunately. Look at the gains not so much the hp and torque values compared to others.

Even though the numbers might be heartbreaking to some it is extremely accurate and realistic ( when the obdII is working). Any tuner will tell you a mustang is the way to go.
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      09-27-2012, 11:38 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
It was dynoed using rolling speed our obdII was acting up unfortunately. Look at the gains not so much the hp and torque values compared to others.

Even though the numbers might be heartbreaking to some it is extremely accurate and realistic ( when the obdII is working). Any tuner will tell you a mustang is the way to go.
points for responding with class and composure. Thanks for dynoing. Others who have the system should dyno as well for some independent numbers. That should verify what AA has posted.
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      09-28-2012, 07:45 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
What car is that dyno off of? The graph looks weird for a N51/2

More torque than power and only 168whp? What gives?

It was dynoed using rolling speed our obdII was acting up unfortunately. Look at the gains not so much the hp and torque values compared to others.

Even though the numbers might be heartbreaking to some it is extremely accurate and realistic ( when the obdII is working). Any tuner will tell you a mustang is the way to go.
Well, the way to go but still not accurate

A rwd car at 25-30% drivetrain loss? Wow, no.
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      09-28-2012, 09:39 AM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
What car is that dyno off of? The graph looks weird for a N51/2

More torque than power and only 168whp? What gives?

It was dynoed using rolling speed our obdII was acting up unfortunately. Look at the gains not so much the hp and torque values compared to others.

Even though the numbers might be heartbreaking to some it is extremely accurate and realistic ( when the obdII is working). Any tuner will tell you a mustang is the way to go.
Well, the way to go but still not accurate

A rwd car at 25-30% drivetrain loss? Wow, no.
While no dyno will ever be 100% accurate in simulating real world environment, the mustang dyno is the closest you can get. The amount of loss would be fairly accurate comparing a 3rd or 4th gear hwy pull factoring in rolling and wind resistance. Also you can't look at drivetrain loss the way you're trying to. Simply look at the delta and amount of gains and that is it.
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      09-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flinchy View Post
Well, the way to go but still not accurate

A rwd car at 25-30% drivetrain loss? Wow, no.

All 6 runs were less than 2 hp from each other, this is incredibly accurate by dyno standards.

When the Obd2 Connector is working and reading the rpm and not speed from the drum like it did in these runs, the hp and torque numbers will look more familiar to dynos you have seen on the net.

Use our dyno from our tuning thread for a good reference.

Ps: question the high dyno's not just the low reading one's
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      09-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #324
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I am at the muffler shop now, they are telling me that some welding and custom cutting will need to be done. (I have a 325i) so I'm assuming that the 328 and 325 have different exhaust piping. I'm on my phone right now ill post some pictures as soon as I'm home.
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      09-28-2012, 12:57 PM   #325
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I am at the muffler shop now, they are telling me that some welding and custom cutting will need to be done. (I have a 325i) so I'm assuming that the 328 and 325 have different exhaust piping. I'm on my phone right now ill post some pictures as soon as I'm home.
Just curious what are they charging to install it? Hours worth of labor? And get some drive by videos when u can
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      09-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #326
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If it did not require cutting/custom piping he said $50. For me I'm looking at 100-150. This is because the 325i pipes are oval and bent in, and looking at the pictures on the instructions the 328i has circle pipes. After this install I was planning to do start up revs drive byes the whole thing.
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      09-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #327
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Please take a picture of your exhaust. Only the lowest spots should be water blasted into an oval.
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      09-28-2012, 01:12 PM   #328
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Please take a picture of your exhaust. Only the lowest spots should be water blasted into an oval.
I'll email you, I'm currently on my phone at the shop
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      09-28-2012, 01:49 PM   #329
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I'll email you, I'm currently on my phone at the shop
Are you an N51 ?
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      09-28-2012, 02:13 PM   #330
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Quote:
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I'll email you, I'm currently on my phone at the shop
Are you an N51 ?
N52 I looked up my vin #
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