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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Lets discuss DLS R4 Adaptors for E90's



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      08-20-2012, 01:33 AM   #1
QUiKSR20
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Lets discuss DLS R4 Adaptors for E90's

Hello All, Im hoping this will spark some good discussion and in the end maybe turn out some nice DLS R4 Adaptor rings ( depending on interest )..

DLS R4 Woofer Specs :
  • Woofer size (4")
  • Power capacity 50 W RMS / 80 W max
  • Impedance 4 ohm
  • Sensitivity 94 dB (1W/1m)
  • Mounting depth 60 mm ( 2")

Pros -
  • Very efficient / Work great with JBL MS8's 30w RMS
  • Cost friendly ( can be had for $130 new )
  • Nice warm sound.
  • Have a Coaxial equiv that makes a perfect center channel ( DLS 424 )
Cons -
  • 60mm Mount Depth ( E90's = 52mm max )
  • No real way to mount ( nobody makes adaptors )

I have started an audio upgrade path on my E90 and im in a bit of a jam ( not really ) but I want to do this install good without cutting corners.
There are many nice adaptor rings out there for shallower speakers but nothing for these as they are 60mm deep.

Technic has a method that works well by just cutting off the mounting tabs and then laying them into the grill ( around 10-13mm not 100% sure ).
After they are layed in the grill they are secured with dynamatt to the door panel..


Courtesy of Technic - Dynamatt Method

Not the prettiest solution as he will admit himself but like many will say " IT WORKS and GETS THE JOB DONE !!! "

This is the path I was going down as I already have a JBL MS8 / DLS 424 Center / DLS R4 front components.. I could change out to other components and be done
with it but then my system complexity would be jumping up a notch as I would have to amp my front stage ( trying to keep it simple ). These speakers sounds great
from what I hear for the money but currently there is just no way to mount them utilizing OEM mounting points.

Well heres where this post comes in, I happen to have a close friend that owns a CNC business and maybe be willing to make a run of trim rings if can come up with
a solid solution and get enough people on board ( im not an engineer by any means ).

Do you guys have any interest??? Im not sure on pricing yet but I would think we would need like 10 guys to do a run, In the mean time lets just discuss the planning / ideas.

Ive done alot of research and measuring but I dont have a door panel so somethings I am still unsure of and hope to get the questions answered in this post.

Facts that I do know :
  • DLS R4 Mounting Depth = 60mm
  • E90 Mounting Dept = 52mm MAX

What I dont know :
  • How many MM can we push into the grill?
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      08-20-2012, 01:34 AM   #2
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After seeing a stock speaker ( L7 cause its what I had on hand ) It had a stepped lip that measured 8mm ( 5/16 ) Then there was a rubber lip after that. HMMM ..

My brain started spinning and I started to think, what If I gut this stock speaker as a template for an adaptor and see what we can do...

And we begin : Below is some pics and measurements from the hollowed out bracket trimmed off the speaker.









Details =
  • L7 Driver w/ rubber lip = 1/2 inch ( 12.7mm )
  • Raised lip without rubber lip = 5/16 ( 8mm )

The rubber lip is removed when the speaker is gutted so we are left with a lip of 12.7mm.
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      08-20-2012, 01:44 AM   #3
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Fitting Trim on DLS R4

First some test fit shots.. -held on by tape for pictures only.
Not sure how this can be secured maybe some sort of EPOXY?

Comparison









Now the measurement shots.

From top to bottom


From Back of trim ring to bottom of magnet ( UNDER 50MM )


Same as above but measured from a diff spot ( STILL UNDER 50MM )


( 9/16 ) 14.2mm into the door


From reading this thread - http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405224 We may have up to 15mm
so this would work. That thread is an E93 which is shallower but same grill.

I dont have a spare door panel to test fit yet. If anyone knows how much room we have inside the grill that would be great.

From the looks of it were under 50mm at the back so we could even shave a little off the front lip and move the speaker back more into the door itself if we needed too.

If people are just looking for another way to make a trim ring by sacrificing your stock speaker speakers this maybe your way, If people are interested in something being made
like this in aluminum and we can secure enough people maybe that can be done as well. Not sure how we would secure the speaker to the adaptor maybe EPOXY?

ALL INPUT Welcome
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      08-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #4
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The grill is pretty close to the face of the door panel and the thickness of the door panel doesn't seem like enough where you could push over 1/2" into it without hitting the back of the grill. That is your biggest issue here along with a few smaller ones. I think the back clearance will be okay based on the measurement you show.

The smaller issues are, how do you secure the speaker to the adapter. Since you've cutoff all the mounting tabs, you're basically stuck with using some kind of adhesive or glue type product but then you've gone through all this effort and the weak link is the adhesive or glue which puts you in the same situation as Technic's dynamat solution. So you've gone through all this work to end up in the same place you would have been with $5 worth of Dynamat. I think if you're going to expend that much effort, maybe a solution to mount the speaker from the front side of the door panel would be something worth looking at. It would probably require that you install a non-OEM grill and possibly drill a couple of holes into the door panel but at least you have a secure mounting system to work with.

I'm assuming being able to put back the OEM speaker is not a concern since you're already hacking up the OEM speaker. Depending on where the new holes end up, it might be exposed if you try to reinstall the factory grill. Unfortunately, I don't see any other way of doing this without doing any mods to the door panel unless you go with the dynamat method.
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      08-20-2012, 12:52 PM   #5
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On second thought, it looks like you have some room on the backside to play with. If you could reduce the lip on the front side of the adapter so that the speaker is not pushed so far towards the grill, there might be a chance for this to work but there's still that issue of how to secure it.

Bottom line is, you got a lot of trial and error on your hands. I went through about 5 or 6 versions of the adapters I made before I came up with one that would work for "most" applications. BTW, that magnet is pretty big which could be another problem. Have you actually tried to test fit this into a car yet? The diameter of that magnet could be a problem.
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      08-20-2012, 01:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
The grill is pretty close to the face of the door panel and the thickness of the door panel doesn't seem like enough where you could push over
1/2" into it without hitting the back of the grill. That is your biggest issue here along with a few smaller ones. I think the back clearance will be okay based on the measurement you show.
Once you strip off the rubber lip from the OEM speaker the DLS is just a little bit taller than the OEM woofer, I would think id have to shave down just a little.
If you wish to grab more height you can trim the ring down more and push the speaker back into the door panel up to 5mm more or so.

I can do a comparison measurement of both front-lip pieces ( L7 un-modified vs DLS ) tonight and post a pic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
The smaller issues are, how do you secure the speaker to the adapter. Since you've cutoff all the mounting tabs, you're basically stuck
with using some kind of adhesive or glue type product but then you've gone through all this effort and the weak link is the adhesive or
glue which puts you in the same situation as Technic's dynamat solution.
Agreed and that's one aspect Im trying to figure out, if utilizing the factory speaker in a gutted config It would
have to be secured with some industrial based epoxy that should lock it on forever but wont be able to be reused ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
So you've gone through all this work to end up in the same place you would have been with $5 worth of Dynamat. I think if you're going to
expend that much effort, maybe a solution to mount the speaker from the front side of the door panel would be something worth looking at.
It would probably require that you install a non-OEM grill and possibly drill a couple of holes into the door panel but at least you have a secure mounting system to work with.
Yeah I am looking to keep it OEM looking, I know that it would most likely work front mounted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
I'm assuming being able to put back the OEM speaker is not a concern since you're already hacking up the OEM speaker.
Depending on where the new holes end up, it might be exposed if you try to reinstall the factory grill.
I bougth a used speaker just for purpose of testing and toying with for this project, My OEM Speakers are still installed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Unfortunately, I don't see any other way of doing this without doing any mods to the door panel unless you go with the dynamat method.
Hear me out, I will try to get an illustration as to what I am thinking, I think the epoxy method with some industrial grade stuff would work if there is no interest.
This if done right should be a solid as a welded piece.

If there is enough interest I have access to a full CNC shop with a friend who maybe willing to draw
this up in CAD and try out.

CNC Adaptor Idea

I think if you shave down the lip on the mock up adaptor front as much as possible until your at 52mm max in the back of the door panel.
You should gain a little clearane up front, Now I you could replicate that part now in aluminum and make it threaded.
You could drop the speaker into the adaptor and then have a cap that screws on to the top like a sandwich.. Again this would have to been thin and strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
On second thought, it looks like you have some room on the backside to play with. If you could reduce the lip on the front side
of the adapter so that the speaker is not pushed so far towards the grill, there might be a chance for this to work but there's still that issue of how to secure it.
Exactly we could move the room around, R4's Fit if you get the depth right per Technic. Its just the depth issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Bottom line is, you got a lot of trial and error on your hands. I went through about 5 or 6 versions of the adapters I made before I came up with one that would work for "most"
applications. BTW, that magnet is pretty big which could be another problem. Have you actually tried to test fit this into a car yet? The diameter of that magnet could be a problem.
I know I have a set of your rings ( just no speakers to use with, They are awesome piece!!!! ) Problem is most speakers shallow enough to use them are not as efficient as the R4s and there for cannot be used that well with the 30w RMS the MS8 puts out. Im trying to keep the setup simple yet yield great sound. I have the MS8 + a JL 500/3 for underseats + trunk sub.

If its going to be an absolute pain with minimal interest I will just make a custom set for myself or just EPOXY the rings onto my set.

It was late, I had a fresh cup of coffee and sat down to brainstorm the ideas
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      08-20-2012, 08:10 PM   #7
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Have you though about using two sets of rings, one on front of speaker and one on rear of door panel, that sandwiches the door panel and speaker mounting ring?

I guess I'm layering it like this from outside of panel to inside of door:

speaker grill --- adapter ring --- speaker --- door panel --- adapter ring

Then you would use a nut and bolt to sandwich the speaker and door panel between the two rings. No glue needed.
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      08-20-2012, 09:36 PM   #8
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I am willing to invest.

I think you are well on your way.

If you dont go CNC, I think a good epoxy or construction adhesive would be easily stronger than dynamatt.

Edit: I still think you SHOULD do something machined...looking at the profile shots a two-part solution utilizing a thin plate on one side could be a winner

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      08-20-2012, 09:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I am willing to invest.

I think you are well on your way.

If you dont go CNC, I think a good epoxy or construction adhesive would be easily stronger than dynamatt.
Thanks brotha, Im still looking to go the CNC route, My friend would have no problem working with me to get a set made but
his time is still limited and although I could get them designed probably fast in cad/solid works it may take time to setup the machine etc to make a run.

I will see how this thread picks up, If there isn't much interest at-least if anything I have set the ground work for others looking to go this route.

I need to find a used door panel it can be destroyed, I just need it for fit up w/a grill attached.
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      08-28-2012, 05:23 PM   #10
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If you use the OEM grill as the "stopper" then your adapter/spacer will work without any adhesive/glue to the R4 cone. It is no different than what the Dynamat does but looking and working better...
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      08-28-2012, 07:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
If you use the OEM grill as the "stopper" then your adapter/spacer will work without any adhesive/glue to the R4 cone. It is no different than what the Dynamat does but looking and working better...
So Technic you think laying in the woofer Letting it rest on the grill ( like you do already ) Then bolting this in from behind will secure the woofer in tight as is up against the grill?

Its 14.2mm into the door panel as is I thought it might be left floating like if theres 15mm of space and this only sticks fwd 14.2mm.
( im not sure how much room you have I dont have a panel to test on / measure ).

I really wanna make this out of aluminum with some sort of lid that will screw over around the edge that will screw on but there doesnt seem to be much interest.
If I dont get any interest ill just work on some sort of adaptor for myself and just post any info here for anyone else installing R4's.
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      08-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #12
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I can lift the whole door panel by the R4 magnet after using Dynamat so this spacer should only be tighter.

The problem that I see with this is the availability of the R4 itself and not of the spacer. It is too frequently in backorder everywhere.

This particular step-lip spacer can be used in the E92 as well with any 50mm-or-below depth 4" mid. As long as the cone diameter do not exceed the lip diameter it should work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QUiKSR20 View Post
So Technic you think laying in the woofer Letting it rest on the grill ( like you do already ) Then bolting this in from behind will secure the woofer in tight as is up against the grill?

Its 14.2mm into the door panel as is I thought it might be left floating like if theres 15mm of space and this only sticks fwd 14.2mm.
( im not sure how much room you have I dont have a panel to test on / measure ).

I really wanna make this out of aluminum with some sort of lid that will screw over around the edge that will screw on but there doesnt seem to be much interest.
If I dont get any interest ill just work on some sort of adaptor for myself and just post any info here for anyone else installing R4's.
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      08-28-2012, 09:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
I can lift the whole door panel by the R4 magnet after using Dynamat so this spacer should only be tighter.

The problem that I see with this is the availability of the R4 itself and not of the spacer. It is too frequently in backorder everywhere.

This particular step-lip spacer can be used in the E92 as well with any 50mm-or-below depth 4" mid. As long as the cone diameter do not exceed the lip diameter it should work.
Cool well hopefully however this turns out it ( making a CNC adaptor ) or just using old stock speaker brackets it helps the community..
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      09-02-2012, 11:12 PM   #14
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Well it doesn't seem like there is much interest, Its not going to be worth designing, test fitting and making
the parts if nobody is going to want a set.

The only thing I need to confirm is if how it sits currently fits, depth into grill. If not I could shave down a little
as we have room to push into the door more currently were at like 40mm of 52mm max.

Whats cool is this is made from a stock speaker ( so we all have these ) or if you dont want to mess with your
stock speakers used speakers could be purchased for cheap and save your stocks.

Last night I was hanging with my friend who would be the one doing the drawings etc. I showed him exactly
what we had previously talked about etc and from finally seeing my idea he said :
Quote:
Once you get the fitment right ( depth in grill ) you could bond the two together with Loctite H8600


Loctite H8600 Speedbonder Structural Adhesive ( you click to read more info ).

Let that sit for 24 hours and the two parts are as good as being welded together, After this you can bolt in just like the stock piece and it will be rock solid.

I may try this and keep everyone posted, This could be a low cost option that would satisfy the requirements of a clean cheap permanent install.
It took me 5 mins to find 2 speakers on eBay for under $40 and 15 mins with a dremel.

In the case study on the site they have used this to secure metal shelving to plastic walls in vans for shelving.
Case Study Loctite® H8600™ Speedbonder™ Adhesive Eliminates Through-Bolting in Van Body Assembly

If it can do this there is no reason it cant work for minor securing of speaker adaptors.
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      09-05-2012, 06:11 AM   #15
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I'm interested.
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      09-27-2012, 06:50 PM   #16
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Im interested too. Pls keep us posted if there are already adapters ready to be ordered or at least some design we could replicate. Or perhaps measurements on how much should be dremeled off the stock rings. Thanks!
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      09-27-2012, 10:22 PM   #17
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Im interested too. Pls keep us posted if there are already adapters ready to be ordered or at least some design we could replicate. Or perhaps measurements on how much should be dremeled off the stock rings. Thanks!
For right now there is not enough interest to make, But I am still going to post all measurements and how I modified the stock speakers into adaptors.
This should work perfect and if you dont want to hack up your speakers you can purchase ones cheap online.

I feel this is going to work great. Ill keep you guys posted.
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      09-28-2012, 06:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QUiKSR20 View Post
For right now there is not enough interest to make, But I am still going to post all measurements and how I modified the stock speakers into adaptors.
This should work perfect and if you dont want to hack up your speakers you can purchase ones cheap online.

I feel this is going to work great. Ill keep you guys posted.
Okay nice. Keep us posted my friend!

Thank you for your time.
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      09-28-2012, 07:51 PM   #19
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Thanks. My installer was telling me the mmats pro series components sound really good, but they have a 2 inch mounting depth.
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      10-01-2012, 03:26 PM   #20
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@ QUiKSR20 and Everyone

I got a pair of OEM adapters from stock speakers I bought. I am now planning to alter them for this R4 project. How much should I shave off the adapter rings for the proper spacing on the R4 to the e90 door? Just enought to avoid it from hitting the rear face of the grilles and being able to be mounted without hitting doors? The figures abve are a bit confusing. Maybe someone has exact measurements on how much to shave off? I will stick them up together with epoxy.

Thank you guys!
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      10-01-2012, 04:33 PM   #21
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Hey Gunman,

Glad you are looking to doing this as well, First thing you need to do is gut the speaker so your just left with the ring like I did.

Im still waiting to get the final measurement you are looking for. I cant seem to locate a spare door panel to test with.
I could make it on my on door panel but then I would have to have my door apart for a day or two while the epoxy dried
etc and with a kid and working 5 days a week its hard to do.

Need to acquire a spare door panel for testing only, Get the exact measurement and after that I will put up a 100%
DIY Step by Step thread that can be made into a sticky hopefully for everyone.

This thread was just to gather ideas and interest.
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      10-17-2012, 03:07 PM   #22
gunman168
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Drives: 2006 BMW e90 320i
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Any news on how much to grind off the adapters to be used for R4 fitment on e90?

Or anyone?
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