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      09-30-2012, 05:32 PM   #1
loveskiing
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Conservative view of ObamaCare

I came across this while surfing online... am curious about other's reactions to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/op...me&ref=general

I would only ask that we have a civilized dialogue to hear everyone's viewpoint as valid rather than to push our own while denigrating anyone who doesn't agree with us. Thanks for the understanding
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      09-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
I came across this while surfing online... am curious about other's reactions to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/op...me&ref=general

I would only ask that we have a civilized dialogue to hear everyone's viewpoint as valid rather than to push our own while denigrating anyone who doesn't agree with us. Thanks for the understanding
It's just another liberal NYT article trying to make conservatives look unreasonable or hypocritical or something else. Nothing new to see here folks. Sorry.
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      09-30-2012, 11:01 PM   #3
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It's just another liberal NYT article trying to make conservatives look unreasonable or hypocritical or something else. Nothing new to see here folks. Sorry.
I guess your reply illustrated the problem we are having today in this country; where labels are plastered about to shut down intelligent dialogue. The author of this piece is a resident fellow at the The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) which is an American conservative think tank founded in 1943. Its stated mission is "to defend the principles and improve the institutions of American freedom and democratic capitalismólimited government, private enterprise, individual liberty and responsibility, vigilant and effective defense and foreign policies, political accountability, and open debate". AEI is an independent nonprofit organization supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C.
Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy. More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz.
I welcome intelligent commentary that is meant to be thought provoking in a serious attempt to facilitate dialogue and humbly ask that if your comment seeks to do otherwise, to respectfully post otherwise. Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.
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      10-01-2012, 05:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
I guess your reply illustrated the problem we are having today in this country; where labels are plastered about to shut down intelligent dialogue. The author of this piece is a resident fellow at the The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research (AEI) which is an American conservative think tank founded in 1943. Its stated mission is "to defend the principles and improve the institutions of American freedom and democratic capitalism—limited government, private enterprise, individual liberty and responsibility, vigilant and effective defense and foreign policies, political accountability, and open debate". AEI is an independent nonprofit organization supported primarily by grants and contributions from foundations, corporations, and individuals. It is headquartered in Washington, D.C.
Some AEI scholars are considered to be some of the leading architects of the second Bush administration's public policy. More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions. Among the prominent former government officials now affiliated with AEI are former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, now an AEI senior fellow; former chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities Lynne Cheney, a longtime AEI senior fellow; former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, now an AEI senior fellow; former Dutch member of parliament Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an AEI visiting fellow; and former deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz.
I welcome intelligent commentary that is meant to be thought provoking in a serious attempt to facilitate dialogue and humbly ask that if your comment seeks to do otherwise, to respectfully post otherwise. Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.
All true and having nothing to do with his opinion piece. Most conservative think tanks have a couple of resident liberals to try to balance the offerings. He's a believer in obamacare and he assembles a simplistic and superficial argument that satisfies no one. He parrots administration comments to perfection. And a healthcare expert is not necessarily a healthcare legislation expert. His agenda becomes very clear in the last few paragraphs of his "article" when he refers to the conservative's "holy war", war on women and portrays Romney with disparaging terms. Of course the NYT printed this, it perfectly satisfies their political agenda. You asked for opinions and you will get them.

Last edited by OldArmy; 10-01-2012 at 05:05 AM.
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      10-01-2012, 07:43 PM   #5
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All true and having nothing to do with his opinion piece. Most conservative think tanks have a couple of resident liberals to try to balance the offerings. He's a believer in obamacare and he assembles a simplistic and superficial argument that satisfies no one. He parrots administration comments to perfection. And a healthcare expert is not necessarily a healthcare legislation expert. His agenda becomes very clear in the last few paragraphs of his "article" when he refers to the conservative's "holy war", war on women and portrays Romney with disparaging terms. Of course the NYT printed this, it perfectly satisfies their political agenda. You asked for opinions and you will get them.
No, I asked for folks to get beyond shrill diatribes that seek to divide rather than find common ground. I have watched your ad ad hominen attacks on others while obfuscating their salient points in an attempt to score cheap political points. With this article I am looking to find more enlightened folks that are able to see past those that would seek to continue most Americans fight each other over scraps while the vast wealth continues to fill the coffers of the mega rich. I wish you good fortune and enlightenment and thank you for sharing your perspectives. Therefore for the purpose of this thread I will consider you persona non grata and invite others to respond. Thanks for you cooperation.
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      10-29-2013, 01:26 AM   #6
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In my opinion, the author's fundamental assumptions are false:

-Obamacare is not the same as RomneyCare
-Obamacare did not increase competition - it actually greatly reduced it by standardizing coverage offerings
-Obamacare does not force young, healthy people to participate - it just assigns a new tax to those who refuse, and enables them to wait until they get sick to buy insurance
-I haven't seen liberals be lukewarm about Obamacare - they have wholeheartedly embraced it, from what I have seen
-I don't think we have a dysfunctional healthcare marketplace - it actually operated quite well
-The "lynchpin of the law" that we all carry healthcare coverage is clearly a myth. We will still have large numbers that will just pay the fine (if caught), as well as millions of illegals and immigrants that are not eligible. So this doesn't really solve anything.
-I don't know of any republicans who supported this prior to 2008, that switched their opinion just because Obama sponsored this.

I could go on, but at this point I simply agree with Old Army's assessment. And the outcome of Obamacare's implementation evident: weak employment, poor implementation, millions losing their current coverage, reduced options, skyrocketing cost, etc.. And it won't get better.
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      10-29-2013, 01:38 AM   #7
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...and then I saw this. Looks like The folks mentioned in this Forbes article also agree with Old Army - "poor analysis...based on misreading", "superficial", "distorted", "errors piled on top of logical fallacies"....

And those quoted are not lightweights:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemar...k-times-op-ed/
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      10-29-2013, 08:09 AM   #8
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Funny that a spam bot bumped a year old post.

Even better, OP says "please talk about this article," and when another poster describes how he doesn't like the article (and why), the OP shuts him down and says he will be ignored.

The only one not referring to the article AT ALL is the OP. Trolling 101.
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      10-29-2013, 03:34 PM   #9
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I didn't notice it was a year old... I'm talking to the wind...!
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      11-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #10
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I didn't notice it was a year old... I'm talking to the wind...!
Don't talk to it, break it! ..and this expresses my feelings about socialized medicine.
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      12-17-2013, 03:05 AM   #11
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Not bad! And you are great to share this one with us!
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