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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Just Pre-Orderd: Vargas Stage II



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      10-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #23
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Are you going to run the BMS backend flash also? It keeps AFR and timing SO solid. I'm waiting for this upgraded lpfp to come out so I can test 100% e85

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
Just pulled the trigger this morning on the Stage II's from Vargas turbo.
At first i was waiting to save up for the single from Proceed tuning, got close to ~3k in saving but my seals went out on the stock turbos
Parked the car. (been close to a month and a half)

I was about to buy Stock turbos to replace. but then told my self why replace shit with shit. so Looked into RB's close to buying those. then Vargas came out with the Stage II's. i was torn. Unfortunately i was too late to be a beta tester for the company. So he told me he was accepting preorders for the intro pricing. Read the entire thread on BB and i guess i was sold

So called Tony this morning got everything set up and I'm 3rd in line for the Stage II turbos.


--Im just hopeing for 500~550 hp...(am i crazy?)

anyways i will more than likely be installing the Turbos my self an There will possibly be a DIY up in that section on how to install the turbos

And as soon as the Stage II's are installed savings being again for Either Single by vishnu or Stage III twins by Vargas... Whichever has more numbers on the dyno, or price.
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      10-02-2012, 01:38 PM   #24
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Well if I was only expecting 470whp I wouldn't have spent $2k on turbos as that would only be a 30whp difference for me. I'm pretty confident I'll have no issues hitting 500whp and doing it without pushing the little turbos past their limit. I guess it's all speculation for now though till I put them on.
I'm talking about a car that would normally dyno at ~400whp. RBs usually see a 65-70whp peak delta, so that what I expect with these.
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      10-02-2012, 01:47 PM   #25
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Are you going to run the BMS backend flash also? It keeps AFR and timing SO solid. I'm waiting for this upgraded lpfp to come out so I can test 100% e85
Ehh i dunno if im gonna want to get a cobb lool.. i might borrow my buddys for a week and do sum testing but idk at this point let the turbos come to my front door first and we will see whats up
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      10-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #26
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I'll be running an n20 map sensor since the n54 won't read over 21psi so I can see how high I can crank the boost and still achieve gains. I'm hoping for 500+ on e85 and meth while still being in the compressors efficiency range.
Strong claim. To be able to say something like that, you should be able to show us the compressor map and where you will be at it. Wanna give it a try?
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      10-02-2012, 02:26 PM   #27
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It's on the other forum. Look for it. I've already seen it and its been discussed at length. I owe you nothing. I stated that was shooting for 500whp and that is my goal. Its also the OPs goal. 495 has already been proven without meth. Ill post a dyno as soon as they're installed.
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      10-02-2012, 02:35 PM   #28
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no need for P.M. haha

its $1999 for the first 5 buyers, I'm 3rd so there are 2 more slots available. once all 5 are full the pricing goes up to $2499.

in order to pre-order, the deposit is 50% of the intro price
Can you PM me more details? Or who to talk to about the upgrade?
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      10-02-2012, 02:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bigdnno98 View Post
It's on the other forum. Look for it. I've already seen it and its been discussed at length. I owe you nothing. I stated that was shooting for 500whp and that is my goal. Its also the OPs goal. 495 has already been proven without meth. Ill post a dyno as soon as they're installed.
So you have your compressor map somewhere, but don't want to post it? Do you have your 500+ whp point well marked on it? Is the 500+ whp point of yours on top of the efficiency islands rather than on the side? I don't think so.
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      10-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #30
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For 1 you can't post a link to the other forum on here. 2, I couldn't do it on this iPhone map if I wanted to. 3, show me the stock compressor map and then place my 440whp on it you can't do that either. Of course my goal is to be in the compressors efficiency range but if I still see gains slightly outside of the efficiency range I will continue to increase boost exactly how everyone has done it on stock turbos. So yes you may be correct in saying it is impossible to reach 500whp and still be in the turbos efficiency range, with that being said, no one pushing over 16psi is in the stock turbos efficiency range either. I plan to push the hybrids as far as I can until gain are negligible then back the boost down some for efficiency.
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      10-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #31
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You can't say that 500whp will take it out of the efficiency range by itself. Maybe boost, ok.... If I need to run 27psi to hit 500whp then mabye, but according to this 27.5psi could be had in the midrange tapering to 19psi or so at redlline. What this translates to in HP yet I won't know till the turbos go on but it is DEFINATELY possible to peak OVER 21psi and still be on the island.
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      10-02-2012, 04:00 PM   #32
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ENJOY!
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      10-02-2012, 04:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
anyways i will more than likely be installing the Turbos my self an There will possibly be a DIY up in that section on how to install the turbos
haha A DIY Turbo swap is not impossible, but without the right tools and a hoist I don't even think its a mod worth attempting. Most mechanics drop the sub-frame to get access to the turbos, to be honest, pay cash to one of your local aftermarket mechanics who specialize in BMW's and have them do it for piece of mind. A pro can have the old ones out in 5 hours and the new ones in before the end of the day if they work straight. Might run you $700-900 but thats the cost of having a 500HP monster

If your serious about doing this here is a quick list of tools off the top of my head...

T50 torx---Manifold Nuts
11mm deep socket---Manifold nuts
E8 external torx---Heat shields
T30 torx---Oil and Coolant lines
8mm---splash shields
E10 torx---Steering shaft
16mm---aluminum thrust plate
18mm---Subfame
E14---motor mount
E12---water pump
10mm---thermostat
13mm---v-clamps on cat
12mm---exhast collector

This is just off the top off my head. Dont forget the wastegates need to be adjusted, so you will need a vacuum pump. Again, I want to stress that this is not a light job. And not a job I would not want to do without a lift. The front turbo can actually come out the top, but the rear turbo has to come out the bottom.

Your most likely going to want to upgrade your oil lines as well. Pushing 500-550HP might sound unreal, but there are some mods your going to need to upgrade with that much HP. There is no point in upgrading the turbos and then spending money again to upgrade the clutch (assuming you run 6MT) so do all your upgrades at the same time as once the engine is exposed, all the extra upgrades can be done no problem. Do the turbos, and clutch at the same time (I see you already have DP's)

Just my .02 cents

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 10-02-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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      10-02-2012, 04:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
haha Its not impossible to do, but without the right tools and a hoist I don't even think its a mod worth attempting. You have to drop the subframe to get access to the turbos, to be honest, pay cash to one of your local BMW mechanics and have them do it for piece of mind. A pro can have the old ones out in 5 hours and the new ones in before the end of the day if they work straight. Might run you $700-900 but thats the cost of having a 500HP monster
Def not something I would try LOL! to me the install is money well spent for piece of mind and warranty haha But some people on here have serious skills so to each their own you know.
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      10-02-2012, 04:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
haha Its not impossible to do, but without the right tools and a hoist I don't even think its a mod worth attempting. Most mechanics drop the sub-frame to get access to the turbos, to be honest, pay cash to one of your local aftermarket mechanics who specialize in BMW's and have them do it for piece of mind. A pro can have the old ones out in 5 hours and the new ones in before the end of the day if they work straight. Might run you $700-900 but thats the cost of having a 500HP monster

If your serious about doing this here is a quick list of tools off the top of my head...

T50 torx---Manifold Nuts
11mm deep socket---Manifold nuts
E8 external torx---Heat shields
T30 torx---Oil and Coolant lines
8mm---splash shields
E10 torx---Steering shaft
16mm---aluminum thrust plate
18mm---Subfame
E14---motor mount
E12---water pump
10mm---thermostat
13mm---v-clamps on cat
12mm---exhast collector

This is just off the top off my head. Dont forget the wastegates need to be adjusted, so you will need a vacuum pump. Again, I want to stress that this is not a light job. And not a job I would not want to do without a lift. The front turbo can actually come out the top, but the rear turbo has to come out the bottom.
Wait the subframe rail must be removed i thought it was the seering rack that needed to be dropped and then you have access, I'm 100% sure That i WILL be doing it. haha i work at a regular indy shop and that where i do my walnut shell blasting every weekend. I do have a ton of tools and the waste ages do come adjusted from Vargas. I'm pretty mechanical and if i had to pull the N54 guess what its coming out
but not gonna pay to get it done just cuz i work at a shop don't see the point.

Are you saying this off the top of you head from experience? haha
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      10-02-2012, 04:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
Wait the subframe rail must be removed i thought it was the seering rack that needed to be dropped and then you have access, I'm 100% sure but i WILL be doing it. haha i work at a regular indy shop and that where i do my walnut shell blasting every weekend. I do have a ton of tools and the waste ages do come adjusted from Vargas. I'm pretty mechanical and if i had to pull the N54 guess what its coming out
but not gonna pay to get it done just cuz i work at a shop don't see the point.

Are you saying this off the top of you head from experience? haha
Oh if you work at a shop and you know your way around a car your fine. I thought you were gonna try this swap in your garage with the front end jacked up haha

Some of my family members own a mechanic shop, so I too grew up mechanically inclined and yes I 'AIDED' in a turbo swap but I was definitely not the solo captain of this project. I am 100% sure you need to drop the subframe which is why this DIY is almost impossible without the right tools. Your going to need a lift, transmission jack and the tools specified above for sure along with an engine brace to support the motor after you take the sub frame out...

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 10-02-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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      10-02-2012, 04:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Oh if you work at a shop and you know your way around a car your fine. I thought you were gonna try this swap in your garage with the front end jacked up haha

Some of my family members own a mechanic shop, so I too grew up mechanically inclined and yes I 'AIDED' in a turbo swap but I was definitely not the solo captain of this project. I am 100% sure you need to drop the subframe which is why this DIY is almost impossible without the right tools. Your going to need a lift, transmission jack and the tools specified above for sure along with an engine brace to support the motor after you take the sub frame out...

Like I said, if you work at a shop you don't have to worry about the right tools as everything is there for you. Grab an extra pair of hands and get the job done faster.

FU*K lol damn I'm probably gonna have to pay my boss cuz I'm gonna take up the bay. for possibly a Day or 2 but tools I'm not worried about tools but time is an issue. + I'm a full time student. i might pay one of the guys at the shop to do it haha..

stupid subframe.
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      10-02-2012, 04:31 PM   #38
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FU*K lol damn I'm probably gonna have to pay my boss cuz I'm gonna take up the bay. for possibly a Day or 2 but tools I'm not worried about tools but time is an issue. + I'm a full time student. i might pay one of the guys at the shop to do it haha..

stupid subframe.
haha Tell your boss you'll pay him in beer

I'm not sure if your shop is open both Saturdays and Sundays. Assuming you guys are closed for Sundays, start the swap Saturday afternoon and then finish the swap on Sunday. That way your only taking up a lift during normal operational hours for half a day as Sunday the shop is closed to customers.

In my opinion, if your going to crank out 500-550HP your going to need to get around $2000 minimum of additional upgrades (for example clutch, upgrades fuel and coolant lines, gaskets, spark plugs, fuel injectors, coils, M3 rear suspension, LSD, you might want to keep a HPFP and a LPFP on hand) and thats just a few as there are more that you could do help ensure your car remains reliable. Your in a unique situation though, ask your boss to hep you out order the upgraded parts. He will be able to get them for you at dealer prices as he owns a shop. That should save you 15-20% on parts alone.

Going from 300 HP to 400HP is doable with stock equipment. Going from 400HP to over 500HP needs upgrades to a bunch of stuff.

Again, just my .02 cents and if you plan a DIY take pics or a video if possible as I don't think anyone has documented a turbo swap on here before.
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      10-02-2012, 04:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
haha Tell your boss you'll pay him in beer

I'm not sure if your shop is open both Saturdays and Sundays. Assuming you guys are closed for Sundays, start the swap Saturday afternoon and then finish the swap on Sunday. That way your only taking up a lift during normal operational hours for half a day as Sunday the shop is closed to customers.

In my opinion, if your going to crank out 500-550HP your going to need to get around $2000 minimum of additional upgrades (for example clutch, upgrades fuel and coolant lines, gaskets, spark plugs, fuel injectors, coils, M3 rear suspension, LSD, you might want to keep a HPFP and a LPFP on hand) and thats just a few as there are more that you could do help ensure your car remains reliable. Your in a unique situation though, ask your boss to hep you out order the upgraded parts. He will be able to get them for you at dealer prices as he owns a shop. That should save you 15-20% on parts alone.

Going from 300 HP to 400HP is doable with stock equipment. Going from 400HP to over 500HP needs upgrades to a bunch of stuff.

Again, just my .02 cents and if you plan a DIY take pics or a video if possible as I don't think anyone has documented a turbo swap on here before.
Will do but u mean coil, plugs, and injector upgrades or new replacements? but the injectors coils plugs are all new as the car has been sitting i have been maintaing, intake valves are clean, LSD wil be intalled in about a month or two after the turbos are intalled due to the big hole in my pocket... I'm only a sophomore in college. and I'm almost broke haha
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      10-02-2012, 04:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy_0559 View Post
Will do but u mean coil, plugs, and injector upgrades or new replacements? but the injectors coils plugs are all new as the car has been sitting i have been maintaing, intake valves are clean, LSD wil be intalled in about a month or two after the turbos are intalled due to the big hole in my pocket... I'm only a sophomore in college. and I'm almost broke haha
Ya for plugs, coils and injectors just use the OEM ones. I just mean make sure they are new and keep a log if you can when you install them so you can monitor them and replace them as needed.

I would very highly recommend a new clutch and upgraded M3 rear suspension which include:
A) Longer rear camber arm, wishbone whatever your favorite vendor calls it. Its also lighter as its made of aluminium.
B) Tighter tension rods and better/stiffer front tower brace.
C) Better toe link, stronger aluminum guide rods
D) Slightly stiffer springs and obviously better shocks compared to 335
E) Last but very important are Subframe bushings. 335 ones are real crappy, causing the car to sway side to side under hard acceleration.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...ion/M_Upgrade/

I know your still in college, but you gotta do this right or your rear end is going to be all over the place. All that power means nadda if you can't get it to the ground.
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      10-02-2012, 04:58 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Ya for plugs, coils and injectors just use the OEM ones. I just mean make sure they are new and keep a log if you can when you install them so you can monitor them and replace them as needed.

I would very highly recommend a new clutch and upgraded M3 rear suspension which include:
A) Longer rear camber arm, wishbone whatever your favorite vendor calls it. Its also lighter as its made of aluminium.
B) Tighter tension rods and better/stiffer front tower brace.
C) Better toe link, stronger aluminum guide rods
D) Slightly stiffer springs and obviously better shocks compared to 335
E) Last but very important are Subframe bushings. 335 ones are real crappy, causing the car to sway side to side under hard acceleration.

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E92-335...ion/M_Upgrade/

I know your still in college, but you gotta do this right or your rear end is going to be all over the place. All that power means nadda if you can't get it to the ground.
yeah ur right. well i guess ima do that. but very very slowly lol
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      10-02-2012, 05:07 PM   #42
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Wait the subframe rail must be removed i thought it was the seering rack that needed to be dropped and then you have access,
As far as I know you just need to remove an engine mount on the passengers side. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625090
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      10-02-2012, 05:29 PM   #43
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yeah ur right. well i guess ima do that. but very very slowly lol
haha the M3 rear suspension component upgrade is almost a must. They should sell the turbo upgrades with it because without doing the rear suspension your going to be spinning all day long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 View Post
As far as I know you just need to remove an engine mount on the passengers side. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625090
Hmmmmm I have never heard of this. I guess it is possible, maybe one of the vendors can chime in and recommend which way is best.

I was under the impression dropping the subframe was required, but if your swap was done with only dismounting engine mounts I guess it can be done that way as well.

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 10-02-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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      10-02-2012, 05:41 PM   #44
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As far as I know you just need to remove an engine mount on the passengers side. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625090
Just got done shitting bricks.

i think your right the "subframe" is #18 in the picture and possiblely #3 needs to be removed. and the steering rack needs to be dropped.



I was thinking i needed to drop this thing. #1
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