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      10-03-2012, 04:15 AM   #1
jonho90
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Does a meth kit help with oil cooling?

Planning to run a JB4 tune and get a meth kit. Do i need an oil cooler?

Does water/meth injection help with oil cooling. My 2007 335i didn't come with a factory oil cooler. Can i mod my car without an oil cooler if i run water/meth injection
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      10-03-2012, 04:38 AM   #2
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What I intended to do was get a JB4 + BMS DCI and a trunk meth kit so i can run a meth map. Do i need an oil cooler? There was some debate about having a tune with no oil cooler, but since I'm getting water/meth injection, and the water helps with cooling the cylinders, do i still need an oil cooler
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      10-03-2012, 06:25 AM   #3
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Meth won't cool your oil, it cools your intake charge air
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      10-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Meth won't cool your oil, it cools your intake charge air
+1. Also, look into an aftermarket oil cooler. I hear the AR design one is pretty nice.

But yeah.... If you're gonna go as far as meth- get an oil cooler.
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      10-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Meth won't cool your oil, it cools your intake charge air
+1

Get a oil cooler first! Work on the basics first before you go all loco on meth...
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      10-03-2012, 02:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turb0Surge View Post
+1. Also, look into an aftermarket oil cooler. I hear the AR design one is pretty nice.

But yeah.... If you're gonna go as far as meth- get an oil cooler.
thanks, it's just that the oil cooler itself (to retrofit it) costs more than the JB4+DCI+Meth kit added together.

what if i ran jb4+dci without meth in the meantime and then get an oil cooler when i decide to run meth?

i've heard of some guys in the forum having some bolt on mods + tune on the 335i with no oil cooler. what kind of mods will be ok without the oil cooler?
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      10-03-2012, 03:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jonho90 View Post
thanks, it's just that the oil cooler itself (to retrofit it) costs more than the JB4+DCI+Meth kit added together.

what if i ran jb4+dci without meth in the meantime and then get an oil cooler when i decide to run meth?

i've heard of some guys in the forum having some bolt on mods + tune on the 335i with no oil cooler. what kind of mods will be ok without the oil cooler?
You know, it's very simple: When you start modding, you will stress your engine more. All parts are more stressed, get more energy and more heat to cope with. It is up to you if you want to have an engine that is capable to cope better with this... If you are not interessted in keeping the car for a longer time, don't hesitate... If you are, maybe you want to think twice on making the engine more durable...

But that's me and i'm not you...
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      10-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Belgier View Post
You know, it's very simple: When you start modding, you will stress your engine more. All parts are more stressed, get more energy and more heat to cope with. It is up to you if you want to have an engine that is capable to cope better with this... If you are not interessted in keeping the car for a longer time, don't hesitate... If you are, maybe you want to think twice on making the engine more durable...

But that's me and i'm not you...
^what this guy said.
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      10-03-2012, 04:30 PM   #9
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Get the oil cooler first. I see temps of 240-250 pushing hard with a tune, and I have the factory cooler. Without one temps will be 260+ for sure.
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      10-03-2012, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
. Without one temps will be 260+ for sure.
You know you'd think so... but I run JB4 +Meth and I've only seen 260 like once...and I have no oil cooler

I think oil cooler is only REALLLY necessary if you're doing track days... Or live in a very hot climate..

That said oil cooler is definitely a good idea.., I do 4-5k oil changes and make sure my oil is always full since I don't have one.. I've also been known to pop the hood after some fast runs if possible too..

just my .02



btw e90Company what kind of AE's do you have? I need some..
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      10-03-2012, 09:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by WickedB View Post
You know you'd think so... but I run JB4 +Meth and I've only seen 260 like once...and I have no oil cooler

I think oil cooler is only REALLLY necessary if you're doing track days... Or live in a very hot climate..

That said oil cooler is definitely a good idea.., I do 4-5k oil changes and make sure my oil is always full since I don't have one.. I've also been known to pop the hood after some fast runs if possible too..

just my .02



btw e90Company what kind of AE's do you have? I need some..

The climate sure makes a huge difference in your choice here. Living in South Florida I rely on an oil cooler more than you and the OP probably do living in cooler climates, so you are correct. Untimately it's up to you if you think it's neccesary, but I know I would get one just to reduce the stress temps on the engine.

AE's? They are OSS headlights
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      10-03-2012, 09:14 PM   #12
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Why do you want meth? There are other mods that I would do first

- tune + intake
- downpipes
- intercooler

I would start with those mods (in that order) before considering meth.

But before anything, I would buy an oil cooler. The ER sport oil cooler is really nice. It's more expensive than some of the other mods, but if you're going to mod your car, don't take shortcuts.

.02
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      10-03-2012, 10:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes. View Post
Why do you want meth? There are other mods that I would do first

- tune + intake
- downpipes
- intercooler

I would start with those mods (in that order) before considering meth.

But before anything, I would buy an oil cooler. The ER sport oil cooler is really nice. It's more expensive than some of the other mods, but if you're going to mod your car, don't take shortcuts.

.02
+1

I just don't get why people will gladly pay ~$1000 to make 50-70 WHP with some mod like meth but would NOT spend ~$700-$1000 to make sure the car can handle that power. I guess its just not as "sexy" because Oil Cooler doesn't add power. However, if your car breaks down or goes into limp mode then you make little or no power. So that "sexy" meth kit does do shit then.

If you are going to mod and increase power and heat you should also think about increasng reliability....assuming you actually LIKE your car.

Ok,...rant over.
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      10-04-2012, 07:47 AM   #14
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If you're just drag racing a few runs in the evening or running around on the street in a moderate climate, you can run without an OC just fine. Since winter is coming, you can tune now, make sure you have a good running engine (plugs, coils, injectors, fuel pumps, all in good condition), then when spring rolls around, install the oil cooler. 260F is not great, but not the end of the world or your engine. Run a high quality synthetic and you'll be fine.

If you are going to a road course without an OC, I'd say you're crazy.
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      10-04-2012, 09:16 AM   #15
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Like others are saying- if you plan on tracking your car, you'll need the oil cooler. If you dont track it, you'll be just fine with JB4/DCI/meth for aggressive driving on the street.

You'll benefit most from studying the effects that tuning to a certain increase in hp has on the components associated with the increased power, deciding how and when that power will be used, and then finally taking into consideration how long you want to keep the car and how much you care about it (or how much certain hefty repairs do or don't matter to you and your bank accounts)

For what it's worth, I tuned my car that still doesnt have an oil cooler at ~26,000 miles. Back then, I got the JB3 2.0 when it was first released, and within the first year I spent more on 100octane to run map 7 with just a DCI than most companies charge for an oil cooler kit. Meth followed when I updated the tune to JB4, still no oil cooler. I also change my motul 300v every 5000 miles and rarely see temps rise above 250. That being said, I take it easy during Phoenix summer afternoons too, understanding what can happen if I'm trying to do tons of 17psi WOT runs when its 115 degrees outside.

Learn and make the choice based on how you plan to apply the power.
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      10-04-2012, 09:59 AM   #16
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I'm not sure why people say meth won't affect oil temps.

Isn't the purpose of meth to keep charge temps lower, hence causing the combustion chamber to be lower along with egt temps and indirectly meaning the oil while lubricating also does not get as hot?


Not saying the effect will be significant but I don't see why meth and e85 wouldn't cause a slight decrease in oil temps.

Am I completely wrong?
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      10-04-2012, 10:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer335 View Post
Like others are saying- if you plan on tracking your car, you'll need the oil cooler. If you dont track it, you'll be just fine with JB4/DCI/meth for aggressive driving on the street.

You'll benefit most from studying the effects that tuning to a certain increase in hp has on the components associated with the increased power, deciding how and when that power will be used, and then finally taking into consideration how long you want to keep the car and how much you care about it (or how much certain hefty repairs do or don't matter to you and your bank accounts)

For what it's worth, I tuned my car that still doesnt have an oil cooler at ~26,000 miles. Back then, I got the JB3 2.0 when it was first released, and within the first year I spent more on 100octane to run map 7 with just a DCI than most companies charge for an oil cooler kit. Meth followed when I updated the tune to JB4, still no oil cooler. I also change my motul 300v every 5000 miles and rarely see temps rise above 250. That being said, I take it easy during Phoenix summer afternoons too, understanding what can happen if I'm trying to do tons of 17psi WOT runs when its 115 degrees outside.

Learn and make the choice based on how you plan to apply the power.
I agree with nailer
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      10-04-2012, 10:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
I'm not sure why people say meth won't affect oil temps.

Isn't the purpose of meth to keep charge temps lower, hence causing the combustion chamber to be lower along with egt temps and indirectly meaning the oil while lubricating also does not get as hot?


Not saying the effect will be significant but I don't see why meth and e85 wouldn't cause a slight decrease in oil temps.

Am I completely wrong?
I was thinking the same thing. It makes intuitive sense that lower IATs would reduce overall temps. Especially when thinking about how lower IAT allow you to run more advanced (maybe just less retarded) ignition timing which should lower EGTs. Because the oil does get pumped through the turbos, this should have an effect on oil temperatures.

That is unless the lower IATs allow you to put so much more fuel into the cylinders because the charge density has increased, allowing a more energetic power cycles and countering the effect above.
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      10-04-2012, 10:43 AM   #19
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Methanol won't directly cool oil, but it will cool your combustion chamber and in turn lower EGT's. This will make the engine run more efficiently, while making more power.

Problem is with methanol you will be adding boost, and therefore creating more heat on the turbo's. The reality is in the 3 years running methanol on this car, my oil temps were still the same they were without methanol, they may have rose slightly slower with methanol.

If you want to cool your oil, get an oil cooler, or an aftermarket oil cooler if your stock is sufficient.

Thread starter if you need any help I'm a PM away. There are many people that modify their car with no oil cooler, I dont normally recommend it but it can be done depending on your conditions and climate as well as how the car is driven.
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      10-04-2012, 11:04 AM   #20
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I've been running without an oil cooler for a year now and I'm fbo with meth.

I go to the drag strip about 6 times a year and my oil temps never touch 260.

Now if I was going to track the car that would be another story and I'd shell out the $1k for a cooler. But living in the northeast, the temps are only bad here for about 3 months a year.

And being that the OP lives in Vancouver I am pretty confident he can get away without an oil cooler with no problem.
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      10-04-2012, 01:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Methanol won't directly cool oil, but it will cool your combustion chamber and in turn lower EGT's. This will make the engine run more efficiently, while making more power.

Problem is with methanol you will be adding boost, and therefore creating more heat on the turbo's. The reality is in the 3 years running methanol on this car, my oil temps were still the same they were without methanol, they may have rose slightly slower with methanol.

If you want to cool your oil, get an oil cooler, or an aftermarket oil cooler if your stock is sufficient.

Thread starter if you need any help I'm a PM away. There are many people that modify their car with no oil cooler, I dont normally recommend it but it can be done depending on your conditions and climate as well as how the car is driven.
Hi Jeff, well I live up north in Canada and I don't see my oil temps rising during the fall/winter. I had to fill up about three bottles during the summer though, and when I went to the dealer, they claimed it was normal?

Just like what JamesM3M5 mentioned that I could probably tune now and then install an oil cooler when spring/summer comes around. What do you think?

I was wondering what kind of real synthetic oil should I use? Brand/type. A buddy told me not to use BMW's 5W30.
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      10-04-2012, 01:47 PM   #22
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Meth injection has a big effect on oil temps. Being able to run more ignition advance (afforded by the octane enhancing properties of meth) will let the engine operate with greater efficiency which means less of the combustion energy wasted in the form of heat (into exhaust and cooling system).

Some of our customers have reported a 30-50 deg reducing in oil temps during track days. But this was already with a factory oil cooler.
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