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      10-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja
Don't know where you pulled those numbers from but the way I see it, 34 is over 20% more than 28. Further, my wife gets 23mpg mixed in her 2011 328. In an F30 loaner, she gets 30 mpg over the same routes, same speeds and so on. That is near as makes no difference to 33% more miles per gallon. Put another way, once her e90 has run dry, the F30 would have 112 more miles left to empty. 112 miles This difference only becomes more significant the higher gas prices go.
Factor in the fact that the F30 extracts no performance penalty whatsoever for all of this economy. It is faster than the car it replaces. A lot faster. Don't forget the vastly upgraded available technology: improved iDrive interface/navi, 8-speed automatic, start/stop system, M adaptive suspension, HUD and so on. For nearly all 3-series buyers, the F30 is the more desirable car.
Everything you listed is overshadowed by the hideousness of the F30 front end.

I will never even consider owning an F30, they are just too damn ugly.
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      10-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #46
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I will never even consider owning an F30, they are just too damn ugly.
When the E90 was introduced in 2005, comments like this from E46 was 10x of the current context.
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      10-03-2012, 07:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ndog14 View Post
Ok. That is something for the 420hp S6 to beat the 550ish hp M5. But the S6 is sick. Interior, ride, and toys must have won it. What was the order? E63, S6, M5?
S6: 213 points
E63: 210 points
M5: 193 points

S6 destroyed in the vehicle category. (Ergonomics, features, fit & finish, etc.) 93 points to E63's 79 & M5's 77.

M5 would have won powertrain but lost points for the tranny and fuel economy.

E63 won chassis category. 57 to S6's 51 & M5's 50. M5 lost points for steering feel and brake feel.

Fun to drive factor: S6, 20; E63, 23; M5, 18.

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      10-03-2012, 08:00 PM   #48
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Everything you listed is overshadowed by the hideousness of the F30 front end.
Can't argue much with that. It is the damn euro pedestrian crash regs that are forcing these front ends.
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      10-03-2012, 08:05 PM   #49
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To date, the only car I like as much as my E92 335 is the E92 M3. I am not into the new model's looks whatsoever.
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      10-03-2012, 08:11 PM   #50
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E92 > both
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      10-03-2012, 08:49 PM   #51
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Prove it.

Someone has to win more comparos and awards than any other company (unless there is a tie), that's simple logic. Does that mean that whoever wins the most comparos and awards must automatically be paying off the magazine staff? Could it possibly be that one company's product philosophy is more in line with the wants of the writers of an enthusiast magazine?
I was being sarcastic.
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      10-03-2012, 09:19 PM   #52
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Personally, I think the front end of the F30 is fugly compared to the e90. Its a shame too, since the F10 front end looks pretty good, esp in comparison to the E60. I'll see what happens with the F30 LCI.

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      10-03-2012, 09:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
When the E90 was introduced in 2005, comments like this from E46 was 10x of the current context.
And when the e21 replaced the 2002, and when the e30 replaced the e21, and when the e36 replaced the e30, and when the e46 replaced the e36, and when the e90 replaced the e46. Same old whining, every single time. Bloated, not as good looking, doesn't drive as well, blah, blah, blah. Same old, same old.

The new car is always on the whole a big leap over the one that came before.

I have no doubt that the clever Germans will sort the steering, and the less than lovely front end features are a prime thing to fix at LCI time. I wouldn't buy a new model before then anyway, who wants to be a Beta-tester??
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      10-03-2012, 10:03 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by ndog14 View Post
Ok. That is something for the 420hp S6 to beat the 550ish hp M5. But the S6 is sick. Interior, ride, and toys must have won it. What was the order? E63, S6, M5?
no s6 came in first! s6, e63, m5. that's what pissed me off most. i can understand someone saying the e63 beats the m5, but for the s6 to beat them both is just weird
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      10-03-2012, 10:20 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
When the E90 was introduced in 2005, comments like this from E46 was 10x of the current context.
And it was true. E90 was fugy as hell till LCI. LCI is light years ahead in he looks department compared to per-lci.

Had a F30 320i as a loaner. Overall it's a nice driving car, however with each generation of new cars coming out (all automakers) they are becoming less of a drivers car. All new cars are numb and isolated almost video game like. My brother has a e36 M and is way more fun to drive compared to my e90. Hell the e30 325ix we have is still pretty fun to drive.
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      10-03-2012, 11:46 PM   #56
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I was being sarcastic.
Got me fooled, gotta use the sarcasm tag.
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      10-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #57
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I agree, the F30's interior looks more modern but if touch and feel and listen, its a down grade as far as material and solidness.
Electric steering can be program and tune to feel relatively close to hydraulic, but BMW is not there yet, maybe a few years from now.
Look wise, no doubt the E90 looks better, but thats just my opinion.
Not just the aluminum suspension parts have been replace with steel but the whole from sub frame, also, the oil pan is now made of plastic.
Yeah, steel is cheaper to use, but plastic? Er... While I think that's not a bad move if the underside is never hit, but if so, any crack or damage to it is a guaranteed trip for a full replacement. At least with a metal oil pan, a dent here or there (for whatever reason) is able to be tolerated.
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      10-04-2012, 12:04 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
Don't know where you pulled those numbers from but the way I see it, 34 is over 20% more than 28. Further, my wife gets 23mpg mixed in her 2011 328. In an F30 loaner, she gets 30 mpg over the same routes, same speeds and so on. That is near as makes no difference to 33% more miles per gallon. Put another way, once her e90 has run dry, the F30 would have 112 more miles left to empty. 112 miles This difference only becomes more significant the higher gas prices go.
Factor in the fact that the F30 extracts no performance penalty whatsoever for all of this economy. It is faster than the car it replaces. A lot faster. Don't forget the vastly upgraded available technology: improved iDrive interface/navi, 8-speed automatic, start/stop system, M adaptive suspension, HUD and so on. For nearly all 3-series buyers, the F30 is the more desirable car.
Check your stuff if you are only getting 23. I'm getting 27 mixed in a 335. She must be driving it like she stole it.
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      10-04-2012, 04:19 AM   #59
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EPA ratings are 18 city, 28 highway for her 2011 328i. 23mpg is right smack in the middle which is what I would expect with her daily route of 50:50 mixed driving. N51/2 328s really get pretty bad fuel economy considering the performance level. She drives a little on the aggressive side but nothing extreme. I can coax an additional 1mpg out of the car when I drive it.

As to you getting 27mpg out of an N54 in "mixed" driving, I really doubt it. Your car was rated at 28mpg highway after all (assuming it is an automatic). You either have a factory freak car, hypermile everywhere you go or you are relying on the on board computer to tell you your mpg, which is always wrong in my experience. I determine fuel economy by actually dividing the miles traveled since the last fueling by the gallons it took to fill. Consistently less actual mpg than the car reports.
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      10-04-2012, 08:26 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
What a surprise, an e9x forum likes the e9x.

The F30 is better in so many ways. How about 34mpg highway vs. 28mpg for starters?
How about 42mpg highway? Cause that's what I'm getting. WAY more power than the N20 to boot.

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And it was true. E90 was fugy as hell till LCI. LCI is light years ahead in he looks department compared to per-lci.
Troof. I kept my E46 for 12 years largely because I couldn't stand the look of the launch E90. I hated it so much I never even bothered to look at the LCI, and waited for the F30. At the last minute, I found a never-owned 2011 335d for 20k less than the sticker on the F30 I was about to order (probably more like 15-16k less than I would have paid), and was surprised to find I actually liked it. Thus I'm now in an E90, which I never expected. I do love the way it looks, but still think the pre-LCI E46 looked better.

Still would have loved the 335i M-Sport I had intended to order, but not enough to justify a 50% price premium.

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      10-04-2012, 10:10 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by The Low Key OG View Post
S6: 213 points
E63: 210 points
M5: 193 points

S6 destroyed in the vehicle category. (Ergonomics, features, fit & finish, etc.) 93 points to E63's 79 & M5's 77.

M5 would have won powertrain but lost points for the tranny and fuel economy.

E63 won chassis category. 57 to S6's 51 & M5's 50. M5 lost points for steering feel and brake feel.

Fun to drive factor: S6, 20; E63, 23; M5, 18.

"It isn't about what BMW got wrong, the M5 is a dazzling and beautiful vehicle. It's about what the others are getting so right."
Highlighted the most important information.


Everyone here needs to realize the change BMW took when Chris Bangle came in. He permeantly changed BMW AG; E38 to E65, E39 to E60, E36 to E46. E46 to E90 should have not been a shock in hindsight and I subconsciously knew what to expect from the F30 with all the similar design queues between the F01 7, F10 5, and F12 6. Even with the interior, you can't tell me you would not have guessed there would be a fixed nav screen.

In a year when Audi surpasses BMW worldwide, it won't be because of BMW failing but Audi succeeding.
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      10-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #62
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It's "Jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome. Porsche still has 4 vehicles in their lineup to worry about, that's it. Each one of them beats the sh*t out of the competition. It was the same when BMW had 4 vehicles to worry about (3,5,6,7). It's hard to be the best when you juggle ... oh, who can keep the count ... different platforms and vehicle lineups. However, if it weren't for this, there would be no BMW.

Let me see the hands count who would pay $50k for a killer but entry level 3 series BEFORE ANY options ... nobody ... really,nobody? Yeah, thought so.

Oh, by the way, your 2001 E46 might have costed 40k well optioned. That's not exactly the same as 2012 F30 costing 40k.
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      10-04-2012, 02:01 PM   #63
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I've had both f30 and e90 328i loaners. I can say that I enjoyed the f30 much more more than the e90. Engine feels more peppy due torque with the FI.

As for gas mileage, I think there was something wrong with my loaner. When I picked it up, the average MPG was 24+. After 2 days of driving, it is as below. You think I should take it back and ask them what is wrong with it?
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      10-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #64
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Everyone wants to throw in the fact that with each generation people moan and groan which is true but the fact is the E90 was the last true 3er. The E90 did become more soft when compared to its predecessors but the F30 jumped ship. The F30 still has some of that BMW feel in its chassis feel which is not really all that different from the E90 minus some softer bushings and steel replacing aluminum. I think the biggest let down is the steering feel. I bet if BMW included the same hydraulic steering from the E90 we wouldn't be reading those reviews claiming that the E90>F30.

As far as the M5, physics allow engineers to do so much to a big a** car like the F10 so Inside line summed it up...if the F10 M5 was a M7 this would be a glorious, magnificent ///M but it's not a true M5 when compared to its predecessors. They called it boring...
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      10-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #65
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Everyone wants to throw in the fact that with each generation people moan and groan which is true but the fact is the E90 was the last true 3er. The E90 did become more soft when compared to its predecessors but the F30 jumped ship. The F30 still has some of that BMW feel in its chassis feel which is not really all that different from the E90 minus some softer bushings and steel replacing aluminum. I think the biggest let down is the steering feel. I bet if BMW included the same hydraulic steering from the E90 we wouldn't be reading those reviews claiming that the E90>F30.

As far as the M5, physics allow engineers to do so much to a big a** car like the F10 so Inside line summed it up...if the F10 M5 was a M7 this would be a glorious, magnificent ///M but it's not a true M5 when compared to its predecessors. They called it boring...

I think it has something to do with a NA I6
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      10-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #66
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I think it has something to do with a NA I6
From a business standpoint, BMW did the right thing. The N20 is much more in line with what customers want than the N52. That may even be true for many, perhaps even most, enthusiasts.
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