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      10-05-2012, 05:25 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio
Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
The basic logic of a piggy is not better, it's as you mentioned basic (dumb).

COBB (BMW DME logic/tuning) does not target boost. It targets load. Load can vary due to many variables. Boost being one of these variables.
The DME will try to achieve the target load with the least boost possible. When the temp drop, the car will be able to achieve the target load with less boost and hence it reduces the boost. that's not a bad thing. YOU ARE NOT LOSING POWER DUE TO THIS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY ACHIEVING THE SAME POWER/LOAD WITH LESS BOOST DUE TO COLDER TEMPS.

Now let's use your logic. If temps go down, COBB car will lower boost and make the same power. JB4 will make slightly higher power because it's targeting the same boost with denser air (colder).
How about when temps go higher?
COBB will increase boost, and hit the same power. JB4 will target the same boost on thinner air and make less power

Same applies when you go high in altitude... COBB will compensate, JB4 won't.
When temps drop, a good tune such as JB or Procede will be able to benefit from the denser air. You are saying that in that situation Cobb cannot make more power but only "THE SAME POWER" as in higher temps. That is true and unfortunate.

When temps go higher COBB tries to make the same power as with colder temps, as you say, and that exactly is the problem. You are stressing out the turbos or having ignition drops. Moreover, Cobb is still NOT making more power than piggies in warmer temps. Generally speaking Cobb is just making less power than piggies in colder temps, i.e. denser air.
This statement is incorrect.
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      10-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
When temps drop, a good tune such as JB or Procede will be able to benefit from the denser air. You are saying that in that situation Cobb cannot make more power but only "THE SAME POWER" as in higher temps. That is true and unfortunate.

When temps go higher COBB tries to make the same power as with colder temps, as you say, and that exactly is the problem. You are stressing out the turbos or having ignition drops. Moreover, Cobb is still NOT making more power than piggies in warmer temps. Generally speaking Cobb is just making less power than piggies in colder temps, i.e. denser air.
No matter how you cut the slice, each tune is perfectly capable of being tuned/tweaked to accommodate the changes, so neither of this really matters.

If you want Cobb to have more boost in the winter, then just tune for it.

If you want your PROcede or Jb4 to have more in the winter, tune for it.
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      10-05-2012, 06:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTstunna612 View Post
some very nice info...gonna go with the JB4 Tune with my DCI
After 4 pages you decided on a Jb4?

I feel sorry for newcomers that have to sift through all the misconceptions about tunes. Such bad info in here and people that dont have a clue of what they are talking about.
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      10-05-2012, 10:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E3r2E9r
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTstunna612 View Post
some very nice info...gonna go with the JB4 Tune with my DCI
After 4 pages you decided on a Jb4?

I feel sorry for newcomers that have to sift through all the misconceptions about tunes. Such bad info in here and people that dont have a clue of what they are talking about.
As a newcomer who just purchased his first mods and the COBB, I have to say I agree and disagree with your statement. Yes, it is difficult to cull the good information from the bad. Hell...took me a while to figure out all the tuning abbreviations. (I still don't understand them all...perhaps a glossary sticky?) Remember also that there are very old posts popping on google or on here; so something searched might seem like a group concern arose with a product and therefore the product was "bad" but if the info is two years old....it might have been factual but no longer is valid. There are so many opinions where people's arguments are just based in the justification of their own buying decisions. We all have a tendency to do this...in my mind I might be worried that my own kids are ugly....but if you call them that we are probably going to hook and jab......When a JB4 guy who loves his ride says his is the best and I made a mistake....great..... I am not going to call his kid ugly. But even as a new guy I have to be able to make and be responsible for my own decisions. I happen to think all these tuner guys figuring this shit out are geniuses.

In truth the decision made to buy aftermarket parts for your 20-100k car is a scary one when your new. You wade through all the pages like this one.....pm people who seem straight....then make your own decisions. I am waiting on my shipment and I keep picturing error codes and a dead ECU in my negative moments and excitement in my positive ones. Part of my brain is convinced I just spent 2k on tires and another 1.5k to blow my car up... So what am I inclined to do? Post redundant questions here because I don't want to wade through 500 posts to see if someone already asked the question that just popped into my head...... So...If your reading these pages to buy something.....be prepared to own your own decision...... If your reading this to learn a DIY......pick it well......In the end most of the folks on here are good people who love cars but probably are not a great single source of information. As a whole...this site is a good source of information and entertainment.

Thank you to everyone who has helped me out.......
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      10-06-2012, 01:08 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
When temps drop, a good tune such as JB or Procede will be able to benefit from the denser air. You are saying that in that situation Cobb cannot make more power but only "THE SAME POWER" as in higher temps. That is true and unfortunate.

When temps go higher COBB tries to make the same power as with colder temps, as you say, and that exactly is the problem. You are stressing out the turbos or having ignition drops. Moreover, Cobb is still NOT making more power than piggies in warmer temps. Generally speaking Cobb is just making less power than piggies in colder temps, i.e. denser air.
Ok....
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      10-06-2012, 01:16 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by E90Company View Post
Isn't this methodology putting a huge strain on the turbochargers when it is hot? I feel like turbo health would be more important than power no?

Genuinely curious, not sarcastic
Hey man, how's it going? car running strong?

When I say it will compensate for heat, it doesn't mean it's going to spin your turbos twice as fast... this is marginal compared to how much any tune increases boost.

On another note, Engine health is the most important. Running 13.5psi on STOCK timing (recommended for cars with no mods and at least 91oct) with visibility to only 1 cylinder is not healthy for your engine. Btw autouning on the JB4 with meth was boosting 19psi tapering to 17.5psi above 6000rpm. That's outside the compressor efficiency map and is not healthy for turbos. See boosting 17psi @4000, is a lot different then boosting it @6000...
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      10-06-2012, 01:19 AM   #73
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so JB4 is installed and all I can say is WOW!!!!! Car feels amazing so far no codes or limp mode. What is the best map to leave it on? All I have is JB4 and Tune.
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      10-06-2012, 01:22 AM   #74
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Best map JB4 and DCI??
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      10-06-2012, 01:27 AM   #75
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Some Cobb fan boys don't know how their tune works.
Research load targeting and the DME and Cobb logic in general.
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      10-06-2012, 09:14 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio
Some Cobb fan boys don't know how their tune works.
Research load targeting and the DME and Cobb logic in general.
Cobb targets load but will only increase WGDC marginally to achieve load, so no, it won't run more "bewst" when it's hotter outside to achieve its load targets.

Can you please share your Cobb experience on this platform?
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      10-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Some Cobb fan boys don't know how their tune works.
Research load targeting and the DME and Cobb logic in general.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted View Post
Cobb targets load but will only increase WGDC marginally to achieve load, so no, it won't run more "bewst" when it's hotter outside to achieve its load targets.

Can you please share your Cobb experience on this platform?
+1, I got bored of explaining man.... some people think they know everything. I've tried piggies when I already had COBB just for the fun of it and still prefer COBB for several reasons. ATR is a different beast, and tuning with it is enlightening to saw the least.
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      10-06-2012, 11:46 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTstunna612 View Post
Best map JB4 and DCI??
Just use map5, do two or three 3rd gear runs from ~2500 to redline so the car autotunes and you're good to go.

Logging doesn;t hurt either to make sure all is in check.
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      10-06-2012, 12:09 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted View Post
Cobb targets load but will only increase WGDC marginally to achieve load, so no, it won't run more "bewst" when it's hotter outside to achieve its load targets.

Can you please share your Cobb experience on this platform?
I can see that you are new to tuning and especially in the forum. Load targeting does not mean "bewst" kind of variations in this or any platform. You admit load targeting increasing boost and call it "marginal". I call it marginal as well, but more importantly, the marginal change in WGDC goes into the wrong direction!

I've had Cobb since its launch for N54 and I am not totally pleased with it since I find ATR for N54 still lacking. I'm more satisfied with the piggies that I have and run currently more often than Cobb, which is very useful as speed delimiter though Let's hope Cobb launches some new and useful tables and features to support big power.
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      10-06-2012, 01:29 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted View Post
Cobb targets load but will only increase WGDC marginally to achieve load, so no, it won't run more "bewst" when it's hotter outside to achieve its load targets.

Can you please share your Cobb experience on this platform?
I can see that you are new to tuning and especially in the forum. Load targeting does not mean "bewst" kind of variations in this or any platform. You admit load targeting increasing boost and call it "marginal". I call it marginal as well, but more importantly, the marginal change in WGDC goes into the wrong direction!

I've had Cobb since its launch for N54 and I am not totally pleased with it since I find ATR for N54 still lacking. I'm more satisfied with the piggies that I have and run currently more often than Cobb, which is very useful as speed delimiter though Let's hope Cobb launches some new and useful tables and features to support big power.
I've only been dealing with the N54 platform for about a year, but not new to boosted engines or tuning. My boost targeting does not go up or down based on IAT. Your theory is flawed.

I agree traditional load targeting is different in terms of increasing boost to hit load targets in hotter weather (or the opposite in colder) but it's quite evident that Cobb has changed the DME's functioning when it comes to this.
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      10-06-2012, 02:28 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
Hey man, how's it going? car running strong?

When I say it will compensate for heat, it doesn't mean it's going to spin your turbos twice as fast... this is marginal compared to how much any tune increases boost.

On another note, Engine health is the most important. Running 13.5psi on STOCK timing (recommended for cars with no mods and at least 91oct) with visibility to only 1 cylinder is not healthy for your engine. Btw autouning on the JB4 with meth was boosting 19psi tapering to 17.5psi above 6000rpm. That's outside the compressor efficiency map and is not healthy for turbos. See boosting 17psi @4000, is a lot different then boosting it @6000...
Hey, pretty good! How about you?

Car's smooth. Just hoping is stays this way Thanks for the info. Regarding the compressor efficiency maps, makes perfect sense.
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      10-06-2012, 04:57 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
Just use map5, do two or three 3rd gear runs from ~2500 to redline so the car autotunes and you're good to go.

Logging doesn;t hurt either to make sure all is in check.


thanks I will try that out
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      10-06-2012, 05:05 PM   #83
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GTstunna612 i am in a similar situation to you. Just got my 335i and want a bit more power.

Saved me posting a new thread
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      10-06-2012, 05:19 PM   #84
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JB4 is worth every penny best bang for the buck lol
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      10-06-2012, 09:27 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted View Post
Cobb targets load but will only increase WGDC marginally to achieve load, so no, it won't run more "bewst" when it's hotter outside to achieve its load targets.

Can you please share your Cobb experience on this platform?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted View Post
I've only been dealing with the N54 platform for about a year, but not new to boosted engines or tuning. My boost targeting does not go up or down based on IAT. Your theory is flawed.

I agree traditional load targeting is different in terms of increasing boost to hit load targets in hotter weather (or the opposite in colder) but it's quite evident that Cobb has changed the DME's functioning when it comes to this.
If Cobb really meant to use WGDC to set limits, this is BAD tuning theory, since each car is different mechanically. Basically an unachievable load is set due to both WG mapping and boost ceiling (which is more than a 1D max). This does not raise boost in the summer since you are maxed already and in the winter the reduced boost to reach load doesn't result in a noticeable change (in boost) since your were under your target in hotter temps... ie. higher actual loads in the winter. Works so far but not correct approach.

Try a stg1 map and you will see the load swings since there’s more flexibility when load targets are being met.

In reality much of the tuning approaches are incomplete and this was very evident in some of the initial threads… stating its ok to run below load, boost target or we are mapping WGDC to the efficiency of the turbos. All kinda crap to keep the tuning inabilities hidden.

BTW: you can change load/boost targets based on IATs and coolant temps, but doubt anyone’s doing it.

Last edited by Joshboody; 10-06-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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      10-06-2012, 09:54 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTstunna612 View Post
JB4 is worth every penny best bang for the buck lol
+1 simple fun...the cobb seems too complicated lol
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      10-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #87
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      10-09-2012, 04:02 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
If Cobb really meant to use WGDC to set limits, this is BAD tuning theory, since each car is different mechanically. Basically an unachievable load is set due to both WG mapping and boost ceiling (which is more than a 1D max). This does not raise boost in the summer since you are maxed already and in the winter the reduced boost to reach load doesn't result in a noticeable change (in boost) since your were under your target in hotter temps... ie. higher actual loads in the winter. Works so far but not correct approach.

Try a stg1 map and you will see the load swings since there’s more flexibility when load targets are being met.

In reality much of the tuning approaches are incomplete and this was very evident in some of the initial threads… stating its ok to run below load, boost target or we are mapping WGDC to the efficiency of the turbos. All kinda crap to keep the tuning inabilities hidden.

BTW: you can change load/boost targets based on IATs and coolant temps, but doubt anyone’s doing it.
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