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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum > Unethical Vendor - BMS (Burger Motorsports bad review)



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      10-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #67
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I've always seen bms as a little shady but this is just stupid.. Ordering one soon from OP instead of bms
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      10-15-2012, 02:35 PM   #68
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You would think BMS has bigger fish to fry than stealing photos for a $8 item...talk about stingy...another lesson learned in doing business on the internet...bummer for the OP, who has my support on his argument.
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      10-15-2012, 02:46 PM   #69
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Hey guys, I will do one last post in this thread as its not really my issue as I don't sell the metal clutch stop in question here so I have no real gain either way, but I always like to support my suppliers, BMS and anybody else. I know its a favourite thing for a certain few users to always say that I am a fake Terry, or Terry steals my account, etc. but there is nothing I can really say to change your mind so I don't even bother anymore. The reality is BMS is a significant supplier of mine, but I have many other suppliers and in reality BMS maybe makes up 25-30% of my sales volume.

Back to the Clutch stop, and before we get carried away here lets look at this clutch stop in more detail. It's basically a furniture pad and a few washers. Grant you, clutch stops have been made for decades and I used one on my very first car (1989 Jetta). It's not like we're talking about the worlds first adjustable clutch stop here. We're talking about a "product" that anyone can go in to Home Depot and make for around $1. This photo shows the parts used to make them. It's easy to see why this has not been patented.

A year or two ago BMS refined the clutch stop with hard rubber washers that reduce the potential for rattling and offer a bit of rebound. But those washers cost $.75 instead of $.04. So they marketed theirs for $10 and I think its a great product that I use on my own car. Still less than OP was charging. Now due to some claims spread by OP they were forced to offer a part using metal washers. That's life. And the good news for customers is the metal washers are a lot cheaper so they can sell their lower end clutch stop for less now. $6 shipped is almost half of what the OP charges I believe.

There may be more to this then I know but I will leave it at this and hopefully the two parties can get together and resolve this dispute.

Mike
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      10-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #70
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So you don't sell them, but you have a pic of the stuff needed labeled with the prices?

going to the kitchen for more
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      10-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #71
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lol what shady douchers, I will never order from them.
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      10-15-2012, 03:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Hey guys, I will do one last post in this thread as its not really my issue as I don't sell the metal clutch stop in question here so I have no real gain either way, but I always like to support my suppliers, BMS and anybody else. I know its a favourite thing for a certain few users to always say that I am a fake Terry, or Terry steals my account, etc. but there is nothing I can really say to change your mind so I don't even bother anymore. The reality is BMS is a significant supplier of mine, but I have many other suppliers and in reality BMS maybe makes up 25-30% of my sales volume.

Back to the Clutch stop, and before we get carried away here lets look at this clutch stop in more detail. It's basically a furniture pad and a few washers. Grant you, clutch stops have been made for decades and I used one on my very first car (1989 Jetta). It's not like we're talking about the worlds first adjustable clutch stop here. We're talking about a "product" that anyone can go in to Home Depot and make for around $1. This photo shows the parts used to make them. It's easy to see why this has not been patented.

A year or two ago BMS refined the clutch stop with hard rubber washers that reduce the potential for rattling and offer a bit of rebound. But those washers cost $.75 instead of $.04. So they marketed theirs for $10 and I think its a great product that I use on my own car. Still less than OP was charging. Now due to some claims spread by OP they were forced to offer a part using metal washers. That's life. And the good news for customers is the metal washers are a lot cheaper so they can sell their lower end clutch stop for less now. $6 shipped is almost half of what the OP charges I believe.

There may be more to this then I know but I will leave it at this and hopefully the two parties can get together and resolve this dispute.

Mike

I can honestly say the picture/prices that Mike posted is about right. Factor in costs for postage, bubble envelope, paypal fees and ebay fees I make about $5 per stopper sold. So by far I'm not getting rich off this.

As I've mentioned before, this is just a side hobby to help the community out. But that's not really the point of this thread.

The facts of the matter are:

1) I designed and developed an easy to install clutch stop. Anyone who has bought one from me knows they can easily make one themselves as soon as they see it. What I provide is convience so that you don't have to go out and have to buy all the pieces.

2) A year or two later BMS copied my design. Which is fine when they used rubber washers. I didn't even complain when they used by install picture. I just figured smart buyers would see through to them and buy mine instead.

3) Now BMS copies my design exactly and uses all the pictures in my ad as their own. That's the last straw.

Strange that they would offer this "new" metal washer design on eBay only. You would think that if customers asked for it, you would offer it everywhere you products are sold...especially your own website.

I think I've made my point. If BMS can't or won't respond well that there's not much else to say.
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      10-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBoost View Post
So you don't sell them, but you have a pic of the stuff needed labeled with the prices?

going to the kitchen for more
right? blatantly trying to destroy this guys business and BMS's at the same dam time.
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      10-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iBoost View Post
So you don't sell them, but you have a pic of the stuff needed labeled with the prices?

going to the kitchen for more
HAHAHAHA - good catch!
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      10-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
A third-party vendor jumping in to take sides in this? Not a good idea.
As compared to the knee jerk reactions but dozens of people now?
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      10-15-2012, 03:19 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divisionbell77 View Post
As compared to the knee jerk reactions but dozens of people now?
Seriously? Okay, let me spell it out - a vendor has a financial interest in staying out of the fray of silly message board drama. The typical board member has no such financial interest.
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      10-15-2012, 03:30 PM   #77
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This has been BMS' mantra from the beginning. "Oh look, someone had a smart idea and they're charging a premium for it. Let's steal their idea and charge less."

The thing they don't seem to understand is that the innovation itself is worth a lot. I'm not sure how showing us a picture of the parts used to make a clutch stop take away from the fact that BMS stole OP's idea and then used a picture that didn't belong to them...

I have never seen Mike defend any of his other suppliers like he does BMS. Terry catagorically uses Mike's account to post from time to time. Telling us otherwise is a blatant lie.
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      10-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttribe View Post
Seriously? Okay, let me spell it out - a vendor has a financial interest in staying out of the fray of silly message board drama. The typical board member has no such financial interest.
LOL.

'Financially,' it would be foolish for them not to step in and point out facts other that the OP's viewpoint. Look at how many knee jerk reactions of people saying they would now not buy much more expensive, and profitable, BMS items all because they take this post by the OP as 100% factual.
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      10-15-2012, 03:39 PM   #79
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their whole business is off of copying other people lol
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      10-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #80
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shit man, as a customer i feel bad
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      10-15-2012, 03:50 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divisionbell77 View Post
LOL.

'Financially,' it would be foolish for them not to step in and point out facts other that the OP's viewpoint. Look at how many knee jerk reactions of people saying they would now not buy much more expensive, and profitable, BMS items all because they take this post by the OP as 100% factual.
That would fall to BMS; not someone else. Mike can't have it both ways - he can't try to claim independence, and simultaneously insert himself into this debate.
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      10-15-2012, 03:51 PM   #82
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I see they've updated their listing to remove my pictures but they're still using my install one - haha


How can I host a .htm page? I archived their original listing.
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      10-15-2012, 03:54 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlackE46 View Post
I see they've updated their listing to remove my pictures but they're still using my install one - haha


How can I host a .htm page? I archived their original listing.
Convert it to a .jpg and host it like you would any picture.
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      10-15-2012, 04:02 PM   #84
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Report them to eBay. It is against policy ti use someone else's photos in a listing.
Also, I watermark any image I want to protect.
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      10-15-2012, 04:02 PM   #85
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Again what business doesnt do this? Lets again take the personal parts away from the argument and compare companies on a larger scale? Wal-Mart and K-Mart. Heck they kept the -Marts! Ford/GM/Dodge have been on eachothers heels for years and will for years to come. Mercedes and BMW, similar ideas are on every car usually 1 generation behind the other. Again take the personal part out of the equation and you see this is call business. Financial gain is why it works. Heck now that I know how to make them for .48 cents I will be selling them for 2.99 plus shipping.
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      10-15-2012, 04:06 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
This has been BMS' mantra from the beginning. "Oh look, someone had a smart idea and they're charging a premium for it. Let's steal their idea and charge less."

The thing they don't seem to understand is that the innovation itself is worth a lot. I'm not sure how showing us a picture of the parts used to make a clutch stop take away from the fact that BMS stole OP's idea and then used a picture that didn't belong to them...

I have never seen Mike defend any of his other suppliers like he does BMS. Terry catagorically uses Mike's account to post from time to time. Telling us otherwise is a blatant lie.
I think you have said your piece and we get your point. You bash the COBB just as hard as the JB4, so I'm sure members can figure out which side you are on. As far as the bold, don't spread rumors. You don't have any proof in making this claim.

Last edited by E90Company; 10-15-2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Clarification
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      10-15-2012, 04:09 PM   #87
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I think in the end the problem really boils down to "credit is not given where credit is due."

Assuming we're getting the full and accurate story, it's unfortunate that no official "apology" was made especially in the case that pictures were just blatantly copied.
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      10-15-2012, 04:11 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
This has been BMS' mantra from the beginning. "Oh look, someone had a smart idea and they're charging a premium for it. Let's steal their idea and charge less."

The thing they don't seem to understand is that the innovation itself is worth a lot. I'm not sure how showing us a picture of the parts used to make a clutch stop take away from the fact that BMS stole OP's idea and then used a picture that didn't belong to them...

I have never seen Mike defend any of his other suppliers like he does BMS. Terry catagorically uses Mike's account to post from time to time. Telling us otherwise is a blatant lie.
I agree with the poster above, I don't think I've seen this happening.
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