E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Ground Control/Stoptech/M3 arms DIY Install Completed!



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-15-2012, 12:27 AM   #1
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Ground Control/Stoptech/M3 arms DIY Install Completed!

Completed this install today, took about 1.5 days working 10 hours one day and about 6 hours the next day.

Got installed:

Ground Control Street/School setup; coilovers f/r, camber plates in the front, single adjustable (rebound) Konis valved for my spring rates, 525/650 f/r springs.

Ground Control adjustable toe arms.

StopTech 355mm 6-piston Red Caliper Slotted Rotors Front BBK

M3 Wishbones and Tension Struts in the front, M3 camber arms in the rear.

Install notes:

Fronts:

Since I had to do brakes anyway, I pulled off the old caliper and rotor, disconnected and capped the brake line, and pulled off the dust shield so I could have more room to work.

Undid the strut nuts, disconnected the swaybar and the headlight rod, then took the nuts off of all of the control arms connected to the knuckle. Went ahead and pulled the tie rod out of the knuckle and put it to the side (still connected to steering rack of course). Now what I did was loosen the bolts holding the wishbone and camber arm to the chassis, and then those were free to swing all the way down.. once this happened I got the entire knuckle out with the strut and had room to split the clamp apart and swap in the GC strut.

When that was done, I went ahead and pulled the fender liner and the undertray a little so I could reach all the control arm bolts, took those out and installed the M3 arms. I put the knuckle back on the arms supported by the jack, and finger-tightened the strut nuts up top. Then I snugged up all the nuts holding the control arms, then raised the knuckle up with the jack to engage the spring.

Since you aren't supposed to torque the control arms until the arm is it riding position, I lifted the knuckle up high enough (via the hub) to lift that corner off the jack stand. Then I reached in and torqued all the control arms. Re-attach the swaybar and attach the headlight rod.

Now the brakes - these StopTechs are a thing of beauty. I picked up a couple of the ECS stainless steel rotor-retention bolts, so I had new ones to install the stoptechs with. Put the rotor on, put the caliper in, put the pads in the caliper, then attach the banjo bolt to the back of the StopTech caliper (make sure you angle the line away from the caliper or you'll end up reversing it afterwards for more clearance). Then attach the line to the grommets on the swaybar mount, and then attach the line to the factory hardline.

I had speedbleeders so I just went ahead and flushed the system with Motul and got it nice and happy.

That might be a little different procedure than you guys do, thats just how I did it. It worked out.

In the rear, I did the toe arms first, then got the strut nut off the top (I had to disassemble the trunk a bit to get to it) and then I could just support the front of the brake rotor with the jack (wood pad) and use my other jack to support the control arm and zip out the bolts holding the camber arm on. The back bolt by the chassis is a pain because they for some odd reason put the bolt in from the front of the car pointing back, and the exhaust blocks the bolt from coming all the way out. I just undid the back 3 exhaust hangers on both sides (3 easy bolts, 1 bolt each) then let the exhaust droop the inch or so it droops, popped those bolts out and got the spring/shock out, then got the M3 arms in there and then put the exhaust back.

The back bolts are eccentric so you need to ensure they go down in the little valley they belong in while you're snugging it up. Also get ready to dial in minimum camber to get that front bolt into the hub. After everything is tight you can dial in max camber like I did.

The rear is really no muss no fuss besides that stupid exhaust issue.

Thanks to CALWATERBOY for the torque specs chart, the only ones he left off were the strut nuts in the front and the shock mounting bolt to the control arm in the back. The strut nuts are 25 ft/lbs and the shock mounting bolt is 75.

I went through and torqued everything to factory spec with the car held up by the hubs so the control arms were at ride height, then lowered it back onto the stands and put the wheels on. We eyeballed the toe (the rear toe was HILARIOUSLY off, the car would have driven in circles) then lowered it onto its tires for the first time in 36 hours, and backed it up and down the driveway and few times to settle everything in.

Came back up and re-torqued the strut nuts (and set the camber to -1.0 on both sides in the front, which looks like a shade over 2 degrees negative to my eye) and then got going on ride height. I ended up with 1 apparent finger gap in the front although its illusory because you hit the tire, its just so far in because of the camber it looks like it has a little gap. Could definitely go with M3 fitments on the wheels with this much camber. Ended up with between 1 and 2 fingers gap in the rear. I like the raked look so I will probably leave the rear a little higher. I didn't measure the distances to the hubs or anything, I just wanted them approximately even and in the ballpark height-wise.

We set the toe using the tried and true plumb on the side of the tires chalk marks on the street and measure method, and it turned out great. We got it to 1/16" toe out in the front and essentially 0 toe in the rear (I was making like 1/4" chalk marks on the ground so I tried to measure to the middle of the mark. ). But it drove flawlessly and tracked straight so I think we got it.

Impressions:

Holy crap. Its a completely different car. If you really liked how the stock car felt, don't do this. Its totally different. Luckily, this is what I wanted.

When you turn the car, there's no "taking a set" it just instantly turns. It feels really eager to turn (probably the toe out is helping that) and it just does so, no leaning, no drama, no wallowing. I went out to bed the brakes and did 10 back to back 90 to 10mph stops on the freeway consecutively and the lack of brake dive was remarkable. Also, the stoptechs didn't fade away at all. I was accelerating as hard as possible each run to minimize the down time and get them hot, and it didn't really do much. The StopTechs just worked with no hassle. Exactly what I paid for.

Next up: Stett Stage 2 Oil Cooler.

Future: LSD + Sway bars + powerflex subframe/diff bushings

It was dark by the time We got the car aligned so I don't have any post-lowering photos. Will get some tomorrow.

The 335i adventure continues...
Attached Images
    

Last edited by DallasBoosted; 10-18-2012 at 09:31 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 01:52 PM   #2
Sered
Lieutenant
7

 
Sered's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 E93 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Melbourne, FL


Posts: 592
iTrader: (0)

What were you upgrading FROM suspension-wise?

I ask because I'm in the same boat with the control arms/shocks/springs versus LSD. I've heard arguments for both sides. What was your reasoning for doing this before the LSD and rear subframe stuff?
__________________
'09 E93 M3 6MT, H&R sports, VMR710 19x9.5+22f 19x11+25r, Michelin PSS, VF540, AA TPs
'09 Z4 sDrive35i, Deep Sea Blue Metallic, DCT, Premium Pkg, Ivory Leather pkg
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #3
cvc 22349a
Colonel
United_States
37

 
cvc 22349a's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay


Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (8)

LSD=#1 mod for 335i. If you're adding stiffer springs, increasing grip and/or torque I'd do the rear subframe bushings first otherwise the rear end will move and bounce all over the place.
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 02:33 PM   #4
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
What were you upgrading FROM suspension-wise?

I ask because I'm in the same boat with the control arms/shocks/springs versus LSD. I've heard arguments for both sides. What was your reasoning for doing this before the LSD and rear subframe stuff?
Suspension was totally bone stock prior to this.

LSD/subframe/diff bushings are next. Reasoning for doing this first was I'm going to a track event in 4 weeks, didn't have time/wife approval to do both that fast so I picked one.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #5
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
LSD=#1 mod for 335i. If you're adding stiffer springs, increasing grip and/or torque I'd do the rear subframe bushings first otherwise the rear end will move and bounce all over the place.
I have experienced that a little, but frankly the car is so much more planted now that its hard to find fault. The rear is still a little bouncy but the ridiculous left-pull is "mostly" gone with the GC toe arms, I'd imagine with the subframe and diff bushings it will be completely gone. Obviously traction will be improved greatly with the LSD as well. I just thought the suspension would benefit me more going around the corners at the track than the LSD, so I did that first. Still going to do both.
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 08:23 PM   #6
cvc 22349a
Colonel
United_States
37

 
cvc 22349a's Avatar
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SF Bay


Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (8)

Right on I just did it the other way around and still appreciate my LSD more than any other mod
Do you dd your car? Those are some high spring rates
__________________
2007 E90 335i, TiAg, 6AT, ZPP, ZSP, ZCW, 6FL, HD
Quaife lsd, ETS fmic, GIAC s/w, Dinan intake/exhaust/oc, KW/M3 susp, Apex Arc 8, Mich PSS
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 08:52 PM   #7
nitehawk
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
28

 
nitehawk's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 335i 6MT
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto


Posts: 1,630
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Do you dd your car? Those are some high spring rates
+1 GC spring rates have never made sense to me...
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 09:20 PM   #8
jpirelli
Power is nothing without control
19

 
jpirelli's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 + E92
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southeast/Southwest


Posts: 762
iTrader: (3)

Good stuff
Appreciate 0
      10-16-2012, 11:22 PM   #9
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a
Right on I just did it the other way around and still appreciate my LSD more than any other mod
Do you dd your car? Those are some high spring rates
It is my daily driver but I work from home so I don't really go anywhere every day.

The front spring rates are high but honestly it feels good. Like under 20mph in alleys and stuff it is noticeably stiff but out on the road it just feels really tight. When you go over bumps or imperfections the car moves but the events are over so fast and the movement of the car so well controlled that its great. And the car handles so flat, no brake dive, very little squat under acceleration, and very little body roll on turning. I ant really describe it well but it just feels like the car does what you want it to now with no drama and no thinking about it... It's just instantly turning. It's awesome.

The GC rates seem high but I think they know what they are doing. I'm a believer right now.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #10
jippii ensio
Major
17

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road


Posts: 1,222
iTrader: (0)

GC front spring rates are 3-4 times stiffer than stock or even M3. Crazy.
Appreciate 0
      10-17-2012, 08:39 AM   #11
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
GC front spring rates are 3-4 times stiffer than stock or even M3. Crazy.
Very similar to the M3 KW Clubsport setup actually...
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 08:12 AM   #12
CALWATERBOY
Captain
24

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 851
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Thanks to CALWATERBOY for the torque specs chart, the only ones he left off were the strut nuts in the front and the shock mounting bolt to the control arm in the back. The strut nuts are 45 ft/lbs and the shock mounting bolt is 75.
Many thanks! Adding....

Note: Have strut nuts @ 25.07 ft lb/34 NM for M3 Strut Brace - researching for accuracy.

Couple o'questions:

Those Stoptechs - drop-dead gorgeous - what are they coated with? Noticed another guy wanted to powder coat his calipers - could be an issue.

More or less settled on my home-grown bumpkin alignment procedure - accurate centerline parallel the critical part. How'd you align yours?

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-18-2012 at 08:18 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 09:01 AM   #13
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
The standard StopTech caliper finish is a glossy high temperature paint available in one of six different colors - red, black, silver, blue, yellow and gold.

We did the alignment with string... A little ghetto but it seems to have worked fine. To get the front centered we got the toe set then drew lines forward from our set points and then found the center point of those lines and adjusted toe to center that line on the roundel. There's probably a better way but my car seems to track straight. Haven't quite figured out how to do the rear thrust angle. Need to think about that one.

And you're right, it does look like the strut nuts are 25 ft-lbs. I didn't tighten mine beyond pulling a bit with the small 13mm wrench.

Last edited by DallasBoosted; 10-18-2012 at 09:33 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-18-2012, 11:38 AM   #14
CALWATERBOY
Captain
24

 
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E93 N54
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 851
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
We did the alignment with string... A little ghetto but it seems to have worked fine. To get the front centered we got the toe set then drew lines forward from our set points and then found the center point of those lines and adjusted toe to center that line on the roundel. There's probably a better way but my car seems to track straight. Haven't quite figured out how to do the rear thrust angle. Need to think about that one.

Centerline parallel found by:

[1] Mark plumb bob location, farthest apart on rear axles @ identical points. Accuracy here IS critical.

[2] Take 2 ~equal length strings; join at one end. Exact equality not required. 2/3+ car width may be a good length, each string.

[3] Place unjoined ends at plumb bob points; stretch joined end taunt.

[4] Mark joined end vertex on one side of plumb bob points, then the other. Connect vertex points and you have a centerline parallel.

[5] Rear thrust angle zero'd by measuring from centerline parallel to rim to set toe - I use toe plates.

[6] Front toe cal'd from centerline parallel w/wheel centered.


(A) Naturally, you'll want to check camber after toe.

(B) If camber's in spec, you're done. If not in spec, adjust and proceed to (C).

(C) Recheck toe; if in spec, you're done. If out of spec, re-adj toe and go to step (A)


Cal's Backyard Bumpkin alignment - workin' OK?

Will post more complete DIY w/refinements soon....


Name:  Mechanic.jpg
Views: 1692
Size:  7.5 KB

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 10-18-2012 at 06:40 PM.
Appreciate 0
      10-19-2012, 06:42 PM   #15
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Sounds good Cal... I need more practice at it!
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #16
nikitino25
Lieutenant
United_States
11

 
nikitino25's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Missouri


Posts: 537
iTrader: (2)

In the pic above, what wheels are those and what size? That drop looks about perfect; would you say it's just a little lower than stock sport? Do you have a range of lowering adjustments? If so, what's the minimum amount? Also, is it mandatory to have the M3 rear camber arms for these coilovers?
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2012, 02:38 PM   #17
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitino25 View Post
In the pic above, what wheels are those and what size? That drop looks about perfect; would you say it's just a little lower than stock sport? Do you have a range of lowering adjustments? If so, what's the minimum amount? Also, is it mandatory to have the M3 rear camber arms for these coilovers?
They are Apex Arc-8's, 18x8.5 and 18x9.5. I think it is about 3/4" beyond stock sport drop. Yes the coilovers are height adjustible; full-up should be somewhere around stock or a little higher.

These came with the M3 rear camber arms; you can get a setup without them but it would be a different style rear shock.
Appreciate 0
      11-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #18
eloo
Enlisted Member
2

 
eloo's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 BMW 335i Coupe (Stock)
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: San Diego, CA


Posts: 48
iTrader: (0)

I'm going to try to achieve the exact same drop. It's marvelous.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #19
TC Kline Racing
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
13


 
TC Kline Racing's Avatar
 
Drives: Many BMW's & Porsche's
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Columbus, OH & Santa Barbara, CA


Posts: 330
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
It is my daily driver but I work from home so I don't really go anywhere every day.

The front spring rates are high but honestly it feels good. Like under 20mph in alleys and stuff it is noticeably stiff but out on the road it just feels really tight. When you go over bumps or imperfections the car moves but the events are over so fast and the movement of the car so well controlled that its great. And the car handles so flat, no brake dive, very little squat under acceleration, and very little body roll on turning. I ant really describe it well but it just feels like the car does what you want it to now with no drama and no thinking about it... It's just instantly turning. It's awesome.

The GC rates seem high but I think they know what they are doing. I'm a believer right now.
OP, you have a nice looking set-up here. I would say your rear spring rate is 'spot on' but the fronts may be a little stiff. You may experience a 'pitching motion' when you go over bumps, like the car is wanting to rock back and forth and when you are at the limit, you will be more likely to have understeer with that stiff of a spring. Typically (for our suspension) the sweet spot for the front spring is anywhere between 300-400# front springs (even for taking the car to the track or autocross).

Not saying that your set-up is wrong, but it may be worth trying if have the opportunity
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 12:01 PM   #20
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TC Kline Racing View Post
OP, you have a nice looking set-up here. I would say your rear spring rate is 'spot on' but the fronts may be a little stiff. You may experience a 'pitching motion' when you go over bumps, like the car is wanting to rock back and forth and when you are at the limit, you will be more likely to have understeer with that stiff of a spring. Typically (for our suspension) the sweet spot for the front spring is anywhere between 300-400# front springs (even for taking the car to the track or autocross).

Not saying that your set-up is wrong, but it may be worth trying if have the opportunity
Going to the racetrack next weekend, so I will have more of a report as to how these spring rates work then. Its actually surprisingly "not bad" on the street. Wife didn't even complain about it.

Thanks for the feedback.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 12:02 PM   #21
TC Kline Racing
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
13


 
TC Kline Racing's Avatar
 
Drives: Many BMW's & Porsche's
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Columbus, OH & Santa Barbara, CA


Posts: 330
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Going to the racetrack next weekend, so I will have more of a report as to how these spring rates work then. Its actually surprisingly "not bad" on the street. Wife didn't even complain about it.

Thanks for the feedback.
eager to hear your feedback

If you do experience understeer, here are some things you can do to combat it in between sessions:

Go slower into the corner (slow in fast out)
soften rebound in front dampers (or increase rebound in the rear)
lower front tire pressure
soften front sway bar (if it's adjustable)

Last edited by TC Kline Racing; 11-09-2012 at 12:08 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2012, 12:12 PM   #22
DallasBoosted
Captain
26

 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas


Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Thanks. Getting the alignment dialed in today at Cobb, along with all the VRSF goodies. Getting 3.5" exhaust, 3" downpipes, and 7" FMIC installed.

Alignment is going to be 2.7 degrees neg in the front, 2.2 neg in the rear, 1/16" toe out in the front, zero toe rear.

And it's probably going to be frustrating next weekend because of the open diff, shopping around for LSD's. Peglegging out of every turn on street tires is probably going to suck.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST