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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 330i / 335i Make MSN's '10 used cars to avoid'



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      10-17-2012, 08:48 AM   #67
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Whatever you have to tell yourself so that you can sleep at night, that's your prerogative.
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      10-17-2012, 01:11 PM   #68
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truedelta's reliability results are interesting:

http://truedelta.com/BMW-3-Series/reliability-13

It only breaks things down by engine for 2007 to 2009, but the results show that neither the 328i nor 335i are particularly low in frequency of repair. For 2007s, the 335i actually bettered the 328i, and the 2009 numbers are fairly close. 2008 doesn't look good for the 335i however. Nor the M3 for that matter.
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      10-17-2012, 02:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Whatever you have to tell yourself so that you can sleep at night, that's your prerogative.
...yup, I was right, you can't.
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      10-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by RMG View Post
...yup, I was right, you can't.
Can't what? Refute your speculation and assumptions?

Nope I'll stick with the stats, another source of which is right above your last post.

But please, tell us more about you, it's so intriguing and informative....
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      10-17-2012, 05:09 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by blackbeast06 View Post
Look at all the issues thaty 335i owners have had with their cars. Even with the extended warranties people still have to fight to get their waste gates fixed. It is a shame that such an expensive car that is supposed to be so refined has so many issues. This is a great article to force the engineers to do better in the future models. We all love our BMW's but I cannot defend the company for issues that are outright obvious.
I just had mine replaced no questions asked by Casey BMW... It's not BMW that is denying it, it's the specific dealer.
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      10-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Can't what? Refute your speculation and assumptions?

Nope I'll stick with the stats, another source of which is right above your last post.

But please, tell us more about you, it's so intriguing and informative....
...well I do have a life .. something you might find...boring. You on the other hand...you have 6,548 posts (?!), the vast majority of them negative...all about a @#%$^&% car ....this is sad. Some health professionals might find this ..."intriguing"...I wanted to end this with a LOL....I couldn't..
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      10-17-2012, 05:29 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by fireline43 View Post
Well look at it this way. BMW only used the n54 for a couple years then changed it to the n55. They don't seem to have much confidence in the engine either.
If BMW didn't have much confidence in it they wouldn't of put it in the 1M and 335is..... BMW switched b/c the n55 is less expensive and is able to produce the effectively the same power more efficiently. it's a cost cutting measure, along with efficiency.
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      10-18-2012, 12:20 AM   #74
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hello everyone, im kind of a noob here. would some kind soul explain what this HPFP is and what issues surround it for the 335? appreciate it!
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      10-18-2012, 12:53 AM   #75
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There's a sticky at the top of this sub-forum dedicated to this thing. I recommend you spend some time with it: it's good information.

However, in a nutshell:
HPFP = High pressure fuel pump.
It was a problem area on the x35 engines (X3 turbo, 335, 135, 535 models). It tended to fail fairly regularly, usually leaving the owner in a reduced-power "limp mode" engine state.
The very latest versions of these car models seem to have licked the problem. Older versions have been retrofitted with the new fuel pumps, which should mean even they should be relatively problem free now.
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      10-18-2012, 08:21 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMG View Post
...well I do have a life .. something you might find...boring. You on the other hand...you have 6,548 posts (?!), the vast majority of them negative...all about a @#%$^&% car ....this is sad. Some health professionals might find this ..."intriguing"...I wanted to end this with a LOL....I couldn't..
Yeah an average of four posts per day is absolutely astronomical! I'm like the King of the Internet! Who on Earth would ever be able to keep up with that pace!?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedOften View Post
If BMW didn't have much confidence in it they wouldn't of put it in the 1M and 335is..... BMW switched b/c the n55 is less expensive and is able to produce the effectively the same power more efficiently. it's a cost cutting measure, along with efficiency.
Not only about cost cutting and efficiency, but you've practically halved the possibility of turbo-related failure. I'm not 100% sure how this turned out in reality, but I would also assume it left a bit more room for heat dissipation. I could be wrong on that, but it would help as well.
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      10-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #77
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I am not surprised at all
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      10-18-2012, 10:25 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMG View Post
...ignorant? I might be better informed than you as I spent a good chunk of my professional life working with statistics. I would suggest you go and check HOW these surveys are made and WHO's paying for them, ok? .... Familiarize yourself with this subject before jumping to conclusions.
JD Power and Consumer rep are relevant for people who are interested in PERCEPTIONS. The real world unbiased reliability studies based on real data are rare because these are extremely expensive and difficult to achieve (car manufacturers do not supply reliability data to anyone) and for this reason there are only a few. ADAC in Germany has one...in this study too some Japanese brands are shown to be more reliable than the rest but the percentage that separates BMW from the winners is quite small. Going through a study like this shows that EACH CAR, W/O EXCEPTIONS HAS HIS OWN ISSUES, and in general the more complex the car is the chances to have something going wrong are higher.

The BMW 335 "reliability issue" in NA is complex and has to do with a multitude of factors. I would start by mentioning the BMW service quality (...that I agree, in NA is horrible) and a very specific customer type that many times is an "enthusiast" that tweaks and destroys the car integrity and passes his problems to others shortly after, with the gas quality to mention just a few. I also suspect that a lot of frustrated individuals blaming BMW on this forum bought a BMW and cannot afford one. They have been able to acquire the car of their dreams but the total cost is outside their financial comfort zone and this creates stress....some of them would like their car they worked so hard for to last forever... They’ve replaced their simple Toyota’s or Honda's with a much complex car that cost twice as much and for this reason alone they DEMAND the car to be bullet proof reliable. When something goes wrong with their beloved car they jump to their computer looking for answers....feeding each other's frustrations that have nothing to do with BMW ... and contaminating others that have no problems with their cars...this is how this paranoia works. The fact they cling to this forums posting thousands of negative comments harassing anyone who has a different experience (instead of trading in their "awful", "unreliable" cars and ending their "nightmare") confirms this. You also witness hilarious situations where BMW is blamed for the quality of their turbos or AC that are 100% Japanese...
Toyota’s and Honda's have their own reliability problems, some quite severe. Still, their customers are happier because they have more realistic expectations as their buying decision was more rational, they've removed the dream factor from it together with the fun factor... Check with someone who works in the Service departments for Toyota and Co. ... (some of them have made their voices heard on this forum...), they went through issues more serious than the HPFP for example but the perception that their cars are somehow indestructible - remains. Even the Lexus flagship model had serious flaws and big problems with their V8 (had a worldwide recall)..Still, if you read what JD Power says the PERCEPTION among Lexus customers is that these problems do not exist…? I don't have time to deconstruct all the rationale behind this for you... it is a losing battle… people like you generally have a tendency to favor information that confirms their preconceptions and maintain their beliefs.....again, you need to...READ, think...if you can.
End of story.
That's a lot of words but not much proof of anything. A bunch of handwaving about how BMW owners are more prone to whining about their issues. Enthusiasts are the minority for any major car manufacturer, BMW or not. I also doubt many owners here have consumer reports subscriptions where they can overstate their issues. You could say the same bs about how meticulous BMW owners are about their cars, but then they shouldn't break down as often should they?
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      10-18-2012, 11:51 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heymilky View Post
hello everyone, im kind of a noob here. would some kind soul explain what this HPFP is and what issues surround it for the 335? appreciate it!
Read the sticky - http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333519
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      10-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleep View Post
That's a lot of words but not much proof of anything. A bunch of handwaving about how BMW owners are more prone to whining about their issues. Enthusiasts are the minority for any major car manufacturer, BMW or not. I also doubt many owners here have consumer reports subscriptions where they can overstate their issues. You could say the same bs about how meticulous BMW owners are about their cars, but then they shouldn't break down as often should they?
...great. No more "handwaving". Please provide proof of BMW reliability. I am curious to learn how many 335 had HPFP problems or any other problems.
Please do not supply results from surveys that "test" customer's perceptions ( = NO REAL PROOF is required during the survey to show the car had problems or not) like JD Power.
Another very good example: Consumer Reports that gathers their data from [CR] readers that have the time or interest to fill their forms and send them back to the editors. This data is totally messed up...this sample ( of CR readers among the large mass of BMW owners)...is their data collection undertaken in a way to ensure that will allow valid conclusions to be drawn ? Not at all I would say....the vast majority of BMW owners (...go and check who these people really are or pay a visit to one of the dealers and take a look on who's buying these cars) are in their vast majority very busy people, people that don't have time for this ...after a 10- 14 hours of work per day believe me you don't want to read CR nor to fill in their stupid surveys. E90Post is not a reliable source either. This community is rather made of "enthusiasts" (that I appreciate as they are very informative ) and a gathering point for those I described last week. Here you also have a small but very prolific and troubled minority ("ragingclue" and others) that will post negative comments , many thousands of them, harassing anyone who has a different experience. Their large number of negative comments become later on a " a known fact" used against anyone who disagrees with them.
Again, the very few real data surveys I've seen ( coming from northern Europe where all technical incidents are required to be reported to a third party) show no big difference between BMW 3 series and his competitors.

Last edited by RMG; 10-24-2012 at 07:18 AM.
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      11-02-2012, 04:14 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by N55 View Post
^
I actually still have the whole stack of service receipts. It's like an encyclopedia.
same with my 2008 335i E90, had it since new. All hell broke loose around 2 years into ownership. I like 335i and still miss it to this day but everytime I remind myself of the potential issues I am glad I am out of that now.
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      11-02-2012, 04:44 AM   #82
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HPFP

H = High, P + Pressure, F = Fuel, P = Pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heymilky View Post
hello everyone, im kind of a noob here. would some kind soul explain what this HPFP is and what issues surround it for the 335? appreciate it!
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      11-02-2012, 12:19 PM   #83
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When I bought my 2001 ML430, I was later horrified by all the negative press and owners problems with this rig......I was sure I had a POS rig.

11 years later, 163K miles the following is what I have to replace on the ML:

Spark Plugs (once at 100K miles)
Air filters - 4 times
Oil and oil filters
Tires

Warranty replacements:
Fuel pump
Cat converters

Bottom line its been an excellent rig despite the bad press and owner issues.

Why is this is.....because people are more inclined to jeer than to cheer.....even on enthusiasts websites.....by the way CR gets their reliability data from owner surveys.....referenced the "jeer than to cheer" statement.....ergo skewed data sets.

-Kevin
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      11-02-2012, 06:41 PM   #84
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some perspective

It seems like everytime one of these threads come up- it becomes an opportunity for people to bash on the 335 or say 328 is better for whatever reason. Does the 335 have the potential for problems- absolutely. Have they made an attempt to deal with them- for the most part i think they have with the extended fuel pump warranty and wastegate warranty. Coming from the world of infiniti and nissan, i never thought that bmws were reliable- but they are well built cars that deliver driving satisfaction. This is a production twin turbo car people, not a camry or honda vtech engine for people that never even look under the hood. Can you imagine the reliability rating the toyota Supra twin turbo would have gotten if it had been made in the numbers that the 335 has? the fact that this car even got made is impressive to me. If i want basic transportation, i have a 12 year old Nissan pathfinder (also listed as a used car to avoid....it has been very reliable except for the o2 sensors which was fixed by a ecu flash). My first 335 had zero problems in the two years i had it( not a long stretch by any means) and i drove it pretty hard. I'm hoping this second one with cpo warranty is the same- but either way i'm glad i have it as cars are getting too watered down to basic appliances that have no personality. I think the initial fuel pump problem skewed the results to what is otherwise a great car for the money. Should people buy them used with no warranty? I would say no but i would say that for any expensive german import. i'm not drinking kool aid here- just stating that the N54 is a great engine and properly taken care of is quite solid.
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      11-02-2012, 06:52 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbtamms View Post
When I was in the market for BMW 3 series last year, I really wanted a 335i. I made some research & decided to just settle with 328i because of the 335i HPFP issue. Sorry for the 335i owners who have to deal with this kind of inconveniences. I wish BMW went into another direction instead of just keeping to make it work.
HPFP doesn't seem to be the big issue on the n55 motors as it was on the n54s.
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      11-02-2012, 07:19 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireline43 View Post
Well look at it this way. BMW only used the n54 for a couple years then changed it to the n55. They don't seem to have much confidence in the engine either.
They use the n54 engine in the m135i and the 335is, I believe.
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      12-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Are people on this site still trying to defend the reliability issues with these cars? Amazing. I thought we had all just accepted it as fact and loved the cars none the less (albeit with crossed fingers).... Looks like they've addressed the HPFP issue (failures seem to be way down), but the HPFP is not, and has never been, anywhere near the only common issue with these cars....

Not sure warranty coverage is a factor in determining reliability itself. It's a factor in considering how much of a burden a potential reliability issue will be for the customer.
so as someone who wants to trade up to an E90 from an E46, what common issues are there besides the HPFP and valve lifter tick, both issues for which a recall was issued?
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      12-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra351 View Post
so as someone who wants to trade up to an E90 from an E46, what common issues are there besides the HPFP and valve lifter tick, both issues for which a recall was issued?
Leaks tend to develop at gasket areas, the water pump costs a fortune. That's almost certain to happen as the car ages.

There are some issues with onboard electronic depending on MY (airbag, window regulators, door locks), albeit these are "common" issues, they remain rare.

Its not too bad really, but you have to provision for some "maintenance/repair" money every year.
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