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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede REV3 E85 mix problem(datalog inside)



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      11-08-2012, 12:52 AM   #1
deploytosave
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Procede REV3 E85 mix problem(datalog inside)

So, i have been running the Procede for a bit now, and decided i needed just a bit more power, so i figured why not give the 50/50 E85 a shot!

the car is VRSF DP's, DCI, and mufflerless 6mt

well, first and second gear pull AMAZINGLY... very, very strong.. but when i shift into third, it bogs like crazy, sometimes for almost the entire gear.. but every now and then itll catch its breath and start pulling correctly!

what i noticed on the data log is that when i go into 3rd the car is going CRAZY lean.. between 18.1-20.1 before finally enriching itself, but boost is maintaining at 14 psi or so...

i will admit that, yes i AM running stg3 map, without an intercooler or chargepipe... is that REALLY whats causing this issue? or am i missing something?

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      11-08-2012, 01:09 AM   #2
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Welcome to +34% max fuel trims. You can play with the user adjustable setting and set open loop to 100. See if that fixes your trims. Otherwise you can adjust the OL table to see if you can't get more fuel. Last but not least, PROcede Flash... Good luck.
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      11-08-2012, 01:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Welcome to +34% max fuel trims. You can play with the user adjustable setting and set open loop to 100. See if that fixes your trims. Otherwise you can adjust the OL table to see if you can't get more fuel. Last but not least, PROcede Flash... Good luck.
well dang..

i just went out and tried it on Map 1 and Map 2, only to get the SAME exact results

so you are saying set my OL fuel to 100?
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      11-08-2012, 02:21 AM   #4
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just went and tried it with OL fuel to 100...

SAMMMMEEE story..

why in the hell are 1st and 2nd running PERFECTLY... and 3rd just takes a dump?
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      11-08-2012, 08:28 AM   #5
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I know it's frustrating, but you really need to for information.

Are you running the e85 maps? If not download the e85 maps and start over. If that doesn't help, then put more gas in your tank to reduce the Ethanol content.

Also, running on Map2 is not going to resolve the issue, just make it worse. Map2 is setup to be more aggressive and Map4 uses Map2 when you're running Meth. So before you start playing with Map2, fix the issue with Map1.

What codes are you getting when you hit 3rd gear? Maybe your HPFP can't handle the load or your LPFP can't feed your HPFP. Codes would tell the story.

If you have set the OL setting in Global User Adjustable Parameters to 100 and it still doesn't fix the issue. You can try to increase values in the Open Loop Fuel (Map 1) table. From your logs, you should be able to see the load and RPM that you ran out of fuel and max'd your trims. Up the value in the table by +5 and test. If that brings your trim below 34, then you should be ok.
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      11-08-2012, 09:00 AM   #6
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Log and adjust accordingly. If you ol fueling is set to 75 move it up in 5% increments until you fuel trims run around 15%. I started at 75 and with 80 everything is great..... That being said all cars are a little different, so yours might need more. But log 3rd and 4th gear runs and I'm sure you will find your cars happy place!
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      11-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I know it's frustrating, but you really need to for information.

Are you running the e85 maps? If not download the e85 maps and start over. If that doesn't help, then put more gas in your tank to reduce the Ethanol content.

Also, running on Map2 is not going to resolve the issue, just make it worse. Map2 is setup to be more aggressive and Map4 uses Map2 when you're running Meth. So before you start playing with Map2, fix the issue with Map1.

What codes are you getting when you hit 3rd gear? Maybe your HPFP can't handle the load or your LPFP can't feed your HPFP. Codes would tell the story.

If you have set the OL setting in Global User Adjustable Parameters to 100 and it still doesn't fix the issue. You can try to increase values in the Open Loop Fuel (Map 1) table. From your logs, you should be able to see the load and RPM that you ran out of fuel and max'd your trims. Up the value in the table by +5 and test. If that brings your trim below 34, then you should be ok.
ive done an extensive amount of searching, no issues there

of course im running the E85 maps lol, not gonna just start throwing random gas into a $10k motor and hoping it works out haha

and perhaps i shouldve been more clear.. i was not talking about running maps 1 and 2 inside that stage, i was actually talking about switching to different stages... as in stage 1 tune and stage 2... and yes, ive tried each map within those different stages

here a different data log from last night... showing fuel trim bank 1 at 0
and fuel trim bank 2 at around 30% when the issues are happening... why on earth would bank 1 follow bank 2 exactly, then as soon as i hit third drop to 0%?

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      11-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #8
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You're not the first person with this issue at all. The older units (rev 2 and below) had a general solution of resetting adaptations and doing a few pulls. With ethanol blending being the new craze, this issue seems to pop up more frequently and there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast solution other than a flash. I think that fixes the problem most of the time. Perhaps shiv can chime in with what the DME is doing.
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      11-08-2012, 12:53 PM   #9
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Talked with Vishnu, they think it's o2 failure
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      11-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #10
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look at this data log, its when i shift into 3rd gear ONLY.. WTF?!

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      11-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #11
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Some cars can't have as aggressive tuning as others before they get a low pressure code. You need to fine tune the OL 3D table, boost, AFR, E mix, etc depending on your goals. 3rd gear you'll use more fuel due to meeting boost targets and higher load... this is the gear (or even 4th) you need to use for tuning/logging.

I doubt it's O2... recently I thought I had a "slow" O2, but it ended up being WGs, which were recently changed and now no "slow" O2. 1 WG was doing most of the boost control, so air/fuel had more fluctuation. Likely not your issue though. If O2's are meeting AFR target when trims are good (ie. at part throttle), they should be ok.

BTW, I don't see any logs. You can post logs and even your current map and I (and others) can help walk you through tuning... it would probably be good for many others also.
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      11-08-2012, 01:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshboody View Post
Some cars can't have as aggressive tuning as others before they get a low pressure code. You need to fine tune the OL 3D table, boost, AFR, E mix, etc depending on your goals. 3rd gear you'll use more fuel due to meeting boost targets and higher load... this is the gear (or even 4th) you need to use for tuning/logging.

I doubt it's O2... recently I thought I had a "slow" O2, but it ended up being WGs, which were recently changed and now no "slow" O2. 1 WG was doing most of the boost control, so air/fuel had more fluctuation. Likely not your issue though. If O2's are meeting AFR target when trims are good (ie. at part throttle), they should be ok.

BTW, I don't see any logs. You can post logs and even your current map and I (and others) can help walk you through tuning... it would probably be good for many others also.
i have tried to tune the OL fuel table, it doesnt change a thing related to this issue of shifting into third
and
what do you mean you dont see any logs? ive posted 3 in this thread...
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      11-08-2012, 01:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deploytosave View Post
what do you mean you dont see any logs? ive posted 3 in this thread...
weird, I tried both Chrome and Explorer... mobile app shows 1, but another doesn't come up. I think its this site... down often, loads slow, maintenance... irritating.
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      11-08-2012, 02:05 PM   #14
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You have to turn down boost in the mid-range to start... find the point of good trims/AFR and then increase aggression.

start with a 3rd gear log from 3k rpms with graphs as:
1. rpm, throttle DME, throttle
2. boost and boost setpoint
3. fuel correction
4. both trims
5. both AFR
6. IAT and DME actual timing
Make sure the scaling is correct. And sorry if I didn't read it, but add your mods, E%, and some summary of weather.

Hopefully the posted logs will appear for me soon.
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      11-08-2012, 02:26 PM   #15
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friend just pointed out that the car comes back to life when it dips under 14psi in 3rd?

what would cause this?
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      11-08-2012, 02:38 PM   #16
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Listen to Josh, he is a smart guy when it comes to tuning.

I was have the same problems with bogs on 3rd shift (6AT) and he tuned it right out. Took a couple tries with different maps, but I have a VERY strong car to show for it now.

You probably need to raise your OL Fuel table significantly like josh did for me, but it all worked out.
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      11-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #17
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Do you have the flex fuel sensor? Just asking cos it's not listed in your mods
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      11-08-2012, 08:35 PM   #18
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No flex fuel sensor...
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      11-08-2012, 11:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deploytosave
No flex fuel sensor...
I think the flex fuel sensor with procede would help. Based on what I understand, it helps optimize the tune with whatever percent of e85 you have in your car.
My car is a total beast with the tune and flex fuel sensor. I have procede, flex fuel sensor, exhaust, dci and fmic and was able to get 425whp on mustang dyno.
My car is still at FFTec for the upgraded fuel pump to help with the flow of e85.
Good luck
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      11-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #20
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Can someone give a step by step on how to actually adjust values in the table, ideally with some screen shots? Ive asked for this in other threads and been ignored. I max out trims completely on E85 maps at 100% OL even on stage 2 and I'm full bolt-on. Now I'm maxing out trims even on pump gas. I get these codes...

29E0/1 (fuel mixture control 1&2)
2c32 lambda probe in front of cat 2, Trimming control
2c6b Lambda probe behind catalytic converter, System check

Replaced the primary oxygen sensors and the codes are back again, even after reloading maps and clearing adaptations..

Any help is appreciated.

EDIT: Sorry to jack your thread, OP...but here's a log. This is non-E85 9-10 maps, stage 3.
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Last edited by sickem; 11-09-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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      11-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickem View Post
Can someone give a step by step on how to actually adjust values in the table, ideally with some screen shots? Ive asked for this in other threads and been ignored. I max out trims completely on E85 maps at 100% OL even on stage 2 and I'm full bolt-on. Now I'm maxing out trims even on pump gas. I get these codes...

29E0/1 (fuel mixture control 1&2)
2c32 lambda probe in front of cat 2, Trimming control
2c6b Lambda probe behind catalytic converter, System check

Replaced the primary oxygen sensors and the codes are back again, even after reloading maps and clearing adaptations..

Any help is appreciated.

EDIT: Sorry to jack your thread, OP...but here's a log. This is non-E85 9-10 maps, stage 3.
I have issues with maxing trims on 91 as well. If you run too high of an OL, like 95% or 100%, you're prone to throw a fuel pressure code I believe. I've been wanting to get the Procede flash, but I can't justify the downtime on my DD right now.
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      11-09-2012, 07:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akotten View Post
I have issues with maxing trims on 91 as well. If you run too high of an OL, like 95% or 100%, you're prone to throw a fuel pressure code I believe. I've been wanting to get the Procede flash, but I can't justify the downtime on my DD right now.
I'm not throwing any fuel pressure codes though...
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