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      11-09-2012, 02:44 AM   #23
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Undergrad in marine engineering operations.(uscg license and degree when I graduated from college) I have never had any trouble finding work but, I also don't work a typical 8-5 work schedule.
Work for one of the biggest deep water drilling companies down in the Gulf of Mexico.
Very few people even have engineering degrees aside from the Chevron upper level management positions. Even the "subsea engineers don't have any engineering degree at all, they are just called engineers. Not a bad job for high school education, making 200-300k+ for 6 months work a year.
There are a few recent hires who have-mechanical engineering, petroleum engineering degrees and were smart enough to get accepted into an advanced development program. When they are finished, they'll be 26 yrs old making 150-200k. Not bad for a 4 year degree.
I should have gone back to school for an mba but, online classes are my only option due to work schedule.
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      11-09-2012, 03:05 AM   #24
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[quote=GrussGott]
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Originally Posted by timn View Post
I think the path of least resistance for you is to join a company where you are a net positive contributor where people respect you and then you can try branching out into product management.
.


Basically, I shouldn't pursue a masters quite yet or go into an engineering discipline?

I graduate in 3 weeks btw
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      11-09-2012, 04:18 AM   #25
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[quote=Letsrunem8;12966440]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott

Basically, I shouldn't pursue a masters quite yet or go into an engineering discipline?

I graduate in 3 weeks btw
Early congrats on your graduation!

I wouldn't say that you shouldn't pursue the masters degree. You have to evaluate each scenario for yourself. Some questions come to mind:

* Get Masters
** Are you OK with taking the undergrad engineering classes/pre-requisites? This might mean you are in school for a year or two longer while you get those done.
** Have you taken all the standardized testing yet? or maybe you can get in without those if you attend the same school as your unrdergrad.

* Get a job
** Is there any job you can think of that will make you happy with your current skill set?

In the end, you gotta do what is right for you. If your instincts are telling you that becoming a PM is the right thing to do, then you should do that. Look at job postings for PM's at companies you'd want to work at and see what their requirements are and get those (i assume they require engineering degrees).

True story: I wanted to be a patent lawyer until I worked closely with them. The money put a smile on their faces, but the work wasn't that interesting to me.
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      11-09-2012, 04:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Letsrunem8 View Post
I'm great at math, and have a few classes that would be pre reqs knocked out of the way. I know the Six Sigma credentials can also help me get there, but having a masters in engineering just sounds a lot more appealing to me.

I've heard good and bad things about engineering degrees. I'm leaning more towards Industrial, since building things doesn't grab my attention.Industrial has more of a business aspect to it. I'm sure it will be beneficial for what I am looking to do, if not, it is always a solid back up plan.

P.S . My undergrad degree is in Finance & Marketing
True engineering is not about building things. It's purely MATH. And we're not talking college algebra. Have you taken calc II, vector calc, differential equations? If you stopped at calc I, you will surely be in for a rude awakening.

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These days your only sure bet is ... law school
No, it's not. Law job market is horrible right now...

IT is the way to go. Way more jobs than available talent.

Last edited by PSUSMU; 11-09-2012 at 04:09 PM.
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      11-09-2012, 05:43 PM   #27
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lol I feel the need to respond. I'm sorry, but anyone who claims there are no jobs for engineering majors are just plain lazy.

I'm 23 years old and was hired on by the VW Group of America as a powertrain engineer. I'm working with people double my age on some of the best cars in the world (Bentley, Audi, etc).

Engineering is the most demanded major for a reason...Employers know that to graduate with a good GPA in the engineering field takes 4 years of hard work, not 4 years of BS like most other majors
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      11-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUSMU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsrunem8 View Post
I'm great at math, and have a few classes that would be pre reqs knocked out of the way. I know the Six Sigma credentials can also help me get there, but having a masters in engineering just sounds a lot more appealing to me.

I've heard good and bad things about engineering degrees. I'm leaning more towards Industrial, since building things doesn't grab my attention.Industrial has more of a business aspect to it. I'm sure it will be beneficial for what I am looking to do, if not, it is always a solid back up plan.

P.S . My undergrad degree is in Finance & Marketing
True engineering is not about building things. It's purely MATH. And we're not talking college algebra. Have you taken calc II, vector calc, differential equations? If you stopped at calc I, you will surely be in for a rude awakening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
These days your only sure bet is ... law school
No, it's not. Law job market is horrible right now...

IT is the way to go. Way more jobs than available talent.
I have passed calculus II, but that was the furthest I went since no additional math was needed for my major.

Engineering IMO is definitely on the rise, and the jobs are there. Another reason why I want to get into it.
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      11-09-2012, 06:27 PM   #29
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I will continue to recommend going the IT "Engineering" route (Engineering title without the math). I have 3 years experience with a M.S. in Systems Engineering and TS clearance. I'm contacted weekly, if not daily, by job recruiters coming after me. I'm fairly confident I could have at least one job offer in <2 weeks if I lost my job today.
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      11-09-2012, 06:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by PSUSMU View Post
I will continue to recommend going the IT "Engineering" route (Engineering title without the math). I have 3 years experience with a M.S. in Systems Engineering and TS clearance. I'm contacted weekly, if not daily, by job recruiters coming after me. I'm fairly confident I could have at least one job offer in <2 weeks if I lost my job today.
that's also stuff that can be done without actually going back to college (e.g. java certification, oracle dba certification etc). study at home or take a class and then pass the exam.
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      11-09-2012, 08:38 PM   #31
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I started out my freshman year in business and made the switch to engineering after that year. Now in my 3rd year in Mechanical Engineering (4th year total) I'm quite happy with the switch. I agree with most here. Only pursue engineering if you truly enjoy math. You will be using differential equations and difficult calculus in every course.

Not sure how the credits work for you, but I completed about 3 semesters with of business my freshman year and barely any of it counted towards my engineering degree. The math courses (Calc 1 and 2) didn't even transfer. If you have to start from scratch, that will be a very long commitment. Its definitely possible, but just make sure its something that you really want to do first.

I would recommend taking a few intro engineering courses and higher math courses (multivariable/diff-eq) to see how you like it. A lot of people think engineering is just building fun things to solve problems, but its a lot more tedious and difficult calculations.
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      11-09-2012, 10:29 PM   #32
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that's also stuff that can be done without actually going back to college (e.g. java certification, oracle dba certification etc). study at home or take a class and then pass the exam.
I don't recall mentioning those roles.. Sure, anyone can write some Java code or install Oracle 11g. What I was referring to is Systems Engineering/ Architecture. You need a solid understanding of principles, frameworks, and architectures. It comes with education and experience; not from an IT for Dummies book.
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      11-09-2012, 10:42 PM   #33
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I don't recall mentioning those roles.. Sure, anyone can write some Java code or install Oracle 11g. What I was referring to is Systems Engineering/ Architecture. You need a solid understanding of principles, frameworks, and architectures. It comes with education and experience; not from an IT for Dummies book.
you missed the point. tech in general (without the math) there are courses and do-it-yourself study guides. a certification is enough to land a job, and then you can build experience.

btw, eecs from berkeley here (graduated with honors). a bigshot like yourself should be running your own business, not working for someone else.
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      11-10-2012, 12:56 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Letsrunem8 View Post
I have passed calculus II, but that was the furthest I went since no additional math was needed for my major.

Engineering IMO is definitely on the rise, and the jobs are there. Another reason why I want to get into it.
I did what it sounds* like you might be doing when I was in college - I tried to assemble all of these credentials based on data I was reading/hearing about. I tried to game it all out. "these people are hiring these people and if I have this then I can get that"

In short, it no workie like that in my experience.

Therefore, I can't recommend enough: if you haven't had a career-type job then get one immediately. Find out what you like doing, find out who you like working with, find out if you're a strategist (what if we sold something like ...) or an operator (here's how we make that process faster ...).

once you know who YOU are as an employee, then return to school if you want too.



*ignore all of this if I'm speaking out of line
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      11-10-2012, 01:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by PSUSMU View Post
I will continue to recommend going the IT "Engineering" route (Engineering title without the math). I have 3 years experience with a M.S. in Systems Engineering and TS clearance. I'm contacted weekly, if not daily, by job recruiters coming after me. I'm fairly confident I could have at least one job offer in <2 weeks if I lost my job today.
woo I am starting my M.S in Systems Engineering in January. I am graduating in December with my B.S in Computer Science. ^_^
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      11-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #36
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No, it's not. Law job market is horrible right now...

IT is the way to go. Way more jobs than available talent.
That was a joke ... yeah, law is deleveraging like everything else and boy is it a disaster right now.

As to IT ... sure, if you like it. Better to find out HOW you like to work, since that will save you a lot of hassle. Here would be my cheat sheet:

* Are you introverted or extraverted? Note: introvert doesn't mean shy! i.e., do group events TAKE energy from you or give you energy?

* Are you strategic or operations? ie., if you're an "idea guy" with a messy desk you're strategy, if you're detail oriented and organize stuff you're ops

* Do you DRIVE change or fight it? ie., do people who bring up a new way of doing something familiar piss you off or intrigue you?

Only a real job can tell you that stuff and only if you're aware of what you're trying to find out.

Everybody will recommend what they like but really everyone has to find out what they like for themselves. The faster they do that the faster they'll make big dough no matter what field.

BTW - here's a quick and dirty Briggs-Meyers test that help answer those questions:
http://www.ipersonic.com/

Last edited by GrussGott; 11-10-2012 at 02:52 PM. Reason: added link
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      11-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #37
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I never want to say you can not do something because we all know as soon as someone says it can not be done someone figures out a way.

However, I do not believe any engineering school worth it salt will not accept someone into a MS Engineering degree programs with a business undergraduate. Engineering MS degrees build on what you learn in the first 4 yrs. Other than the first yr or yr and half Business degrees and Engineering have nothing in common. Because of this you would not have any of the basic information you need to a MS degree.

MBA many times do not build on what you learned in a 4yr degree so have any 4 yr degree will allow you to get a MBA, not true in engineering.

I have BSEE from a top rank Engineering school and went to get my MS in Technology Management (otherwise known as tech MBA) from the top Business school in the country, and I can tell you having the engineering background made business school easy. As it was pointed out if you not strong in math and science going into engineering is hard and you have to be a problem solver. Being a very good problem solver made business school easy and the ability to read data and analysis even better.

Also, unless you're in a specialize field most engineers do not get paid top $, yes there are exceptions but generally you just have to like what you are doing. I working engineering for 15 yrs hit the ceiling unless I want to keep going up the management chain and dealing with managing engineers. So I jumped into the business side and having and engineering degree and MBA allows me to do things and get higher paying jobs than someone with just an business background, excluding working on Wall Street or something like that.
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      11-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by veloziROTHTOR View Post
you missed the point. tech in general (without the math) there are courses and do-it-yourself study guides. a certification is enough to land a job, and then you can build experience.

btw, eecs from berkeley here (graduated with honors). a bigshot like yourself should be running your own business, not working for someone else.
you must have spent a lot of time hanging out in cory and soda working on CS61A problem sets .

i'm also an engineer from a top school (see above), w/ ivy league grad school. a few observations:

-business school (even HBS + Wharton) is a joke compared to engineering in terms of academic rigor.

-there are still plenty of jobs for engineers (especially from top schools); for many non-engineering roles, people value the problem solving skill set (corporate strategy, product management, trading, etc)

-MIS and related degrees are NOT engineering; those people don't have to take linear algebra, diff eq, multi var calc, or a calc based physics course.

i know the IT folks can do quite well for themselves, but i think they are at risk of hitting a ceiling, or layoff when offshore folks are brought on shore.

ymmv.
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      12-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #39
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So great news guys, I have a chance to get into engineering school!
Made my day.

Any advice on grad school apps? GRE? And Letters of Recommendation?

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      12-05-2012, 09:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
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I have passed calculus II, but that was the furthest I went since no additional math was needed for my major.

Engineering IMO is definitely on the rise, and the jobs are there. Another reason why I want to get into it.
You're going to leave here with a whole pile of salt, but here's my input

I graduated in 2007 with a BS in Mechanical Engineering, specializing in biomedical. My specialization led to me taking a bunch of biology, anatomy and graduate level clinical classes my senior year. I mention this because it essentially means I missed out on a whole year of more dedicated engineering classes. Despite "missing out" on that last year, as a mechanical engineer, you will have still taken at least two levels of fluid mechanics, at least two levels of thermodynamics, statics, mechanics, materials, vibrations, machine design, basic physics (Bare in mind that the physics classes for engineers are usually more specialized a) to the type of engineering and b) to the fact the class is full of engineers), a whole semester dedicated to your SR project, and a whole fuck of a lot of math. More math than I ever wanted to do. As others have mentioned, most undergraduate engineering degrees will take you at least through differential equations, and in the case of mine, some crap I can't remember because it was never useful to me and because it was taught by someone I couldn't understand

I'm not trying to dissuade you from pursuing the engineering degree, just trying to show that there may be a lot of preparation required to get ready.

I went straight from undergrad in to an engineering position in the oil industry. Spent a few years as a field engineer. Spent a few years as a project engineer, and about 5 years after graduating I moved to the business side of things. Would I do it all again? Others have said no... I still say yes. I'm not sure that I'd be in the position that I'm in if I hadn't.

Good luck. Keep us posted

Oh, and we are hiring a good number of engineers, so I believe there is still a market out there - I actually think its harder to find a job with a masters or phd than it is with a BS, and then you have to consider opportunity cost.
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      12-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #41
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From what I've seen in my MBA classes, most people that are going for an MBA have either a degree in computer science, engineering or something similar. Some of them have master degrees and even Ph.D. degrees in engineering. I've heard that people who end up starting up successful businesses tend to have degrees in both the engineering field and business field. I find it interesting that you're going the complete opposite direction. I think either way you'll be successful but like others have said, it might be a little harder since you need to pick up the basics first. Just believe you can and just do it!
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      12-06-2012, 11:40 AM   #42
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2 question why?
1)No really WHY!?
2)Do you hate your cock?
Why do you want to be an engineer? It is one of the WROST fields to study and one of the worst fields to work in as a heterosexual non chubby chasing man.


Here is how engineering will be.
You walk into class, it will smell of deep friend curried goat cheese….
You will realize that 30% of kids are from the Near East, 30% are from the Far East and 30% don’t believe in bathing. You may be the 10% that has seen a vagina since birth.
There will be 100 people…if you can call them that in your class. Of the 100 there will be 10 “women” and I will use that term loosely….
Of the 10
2 will be from Krblakistan and smell of pickled herring.
2 will be from India and are already married off
2 will be dating each other
2 will be very “handsome” and joined engineering to get laid because if they were to go to business school they couldn’t get a drink if they paid for it.
2 will be your friends who look like nice girls in that particular environment.

Your professor will hate you, no clue why but he will hate you as much as he hates taking showers or brushing his or her teeth. Furthermore your professor will not speak English as a first second nor third language. He or she can and will switch out to her native language in the middle of a lecture. Which will confuse you but will be perfectly acceptable to the other 90% of the students because they don’t speak English in the first place.

The curve will be nonexistent or so big that simply spelling your name right may get you a C- and this is simply due to the fact that well….the Near Eastern and Far Eastern guys…and yes they are all guys…will not go out to the bars, will not drink, will not eat BLT’s and do not need to chase girls….they are here to work get an education land a job and sit back while their mom finds them a wife….which they have never met until the day of the marriage.

Mean while to get that C- you will have to have spent god knows how many hours in the basement of the library attempting to understand your notes and to guess what the hell the book will be talking about since it was written by a PhD only to be understood by other PhD’s but given to you to buy for a onetime fee of $400 per book.

And then after graduating with a GPA of 2.5 you will most likely find a job where 30% of engineers are from the Near East, 30% are from the Far East and 30% don’t believe in bathing. As a man you will just be sitting there wondering…HU? Mean while the ONLY “woman” who was hired with you was quickly promoted from entry level to middle management and then to upper middle management to meet the government quota for X% of women in Y positions. Which wouldn’t suck if she didn’t have a date every day of the night and had 15 engineers following her like lost little ducks carrying everything she tells them to carry.

So why? Why the fuck would you want to be an engineer?
Go get you MBA make good money in finance and date only size 6 girls who look good, smell good and most importantly….treat you like a human being!

Unless you a gay…which is fine! Or are a chubby chaser…..man that’s just not right!

Says the guy who has been an engineer for the past 10 years, has worked private and public and both in the US and Europe and just got his MBA and would fuck a fat chick just to get the fuck out of Engineering and never look back!
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      12-06-2012, 12:05 PM   #43
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Feel free to ignore everything that guy said.
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      12-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #44
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Why it's true!
Only have about 10 years of experience in engineering and have worked both in the US and in the EU for both private and public companies.

It's just not worth it. My friends who studied business, went to classes where the professors spoke engligh, the girls were friendly and the people didn't stink.

But....that said....i'm different. What I wrote is a very critical of the field of engineering and if you are an engineer and love it...well it's like me drop kicking your kid into a wood chipper. So yeah you would be pissed off.

But if you stand back and look around, yeah it's for shit! Trust me...not worth it!
Unless you are interverted and passive aggressive and like the smell of deep friend curried goat balls!
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