E90Post
 


GTB Performance
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu flex fuel kit or jb4 when using e85:91 mix



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-12-2012, 10:52 AM   #1
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Vishnu flex fuel kit or jb4 when using e85:91 mix

So I've been reading a lot regarding the Vishnu flex fuel kit and how it's really safe compared to the other piggybacks out there when it comes to mixing e85 with 91. Is the Vishnu flex fuel kit better and safer than using jb4 map 5 when mixing?
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 11:02 AM   #2
Exzackt
Second Lieutenant
 
Exzackt's Avatar
 
Drives: n54 e92 335i/e39 540i6
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 256
iTrader: (2)

imo the fact the vishnu uses upgraded fuel lines tells you your answer. Unless you also get a cobb for the bms dme flash than you can't run a high percentage (over 50) of e85. Vishnu flashes the dme as part of the kit, which could be an issue if you're under warranty
__________________
2007 BSM 335i ZSP/ZPP l JB4 G5 ISO l E85 l BMS FLASH l METH l DCI l DPs l Twin BOVs l
Scoops l 18" Forgestar F14sl Koni Yellows l Swift Spec-R l GForce Rivals/Slicks l Quaife LSD
Exzackt is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 11:07 AM   #3
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzackt View Post
imo the fact the vishnu uses upgraded fuel lines tells you your answer. Unless you also get a cobb for the bms dme flash than you can't run a high percentage (over 50) of e85. Vishnu flashes the dme as part of the kit, which could be an issue if you're under warranty
Yeah that's what I'm scared of is Vishnu reflashing my dme and I still have my warranty...
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #4
Exzackt
Second Lieutenant
 
Exzackt's Avatar
 
Drives: n54 e92 335i/e39 540i6
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 256
iTrader: (2)

If thats the case a nice feature of using the cobb is that you can reflash back and forth from stock to bms very easily. Obviously cobb's are not cheap so I would try finding one used on the for sale threads

I didn't know this before but Vishnu does not reflash your dme. They modify the existing software. Which should mean that you won't have any issues at the dealership. Not sure how many people have experience with this...
__________________
2007 BSM 335i ZSP/ZPP l JB4 G5 ISO l E85 l BMS FLASH l METH l DCI l DPs l Twin BOVs l
Scoops l 18" Forgestar F14sl Koni Yellows l Swift Spec-R l GForce Rivals/Slicks l Quaife LSD

Last edited by Exzackt; 11-12-2012 at 11:35 AM.
Exzackt is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #5
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzackt View Post
If thats the case a nice feature of using the cobb is that you can reflash back and forth from stock to bms very easily. Obviously cobb's are not cheap so I would try finding one used on the for sale threads

I didn't know this before but Vishnu does not reflash your dme. They modify the existing software. Which should mean that you won't have any issues at the dealership. Not sure how many people have experience with this...
Yeah I read something about that... I don't know too much of Vishnu piggybacks. So what's the purpose of sending them your dme if they just need to update the software
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 04:30 PM   #6
BoostedE90
Lieutenant Colonel
 
BoostedE90's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 335i 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tampa/Gainesville, FL

Posts: 1,631
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So what's the purpose of sending them your dme if they just need to update the software
The PROcedeFlash is an update to the existing code running on your DME. They modify a few tables in the stock code and leave the rest of the tuning to the Procede.
BoostedE90 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #7
Exzackt
Second Lieutenant
 
Exzackt's Avatar
 
Drives: n54 e92 335i/e39 540i6
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SF Bay

Posts: 256
iTrader: (2)

Ask shiv but I believe it modifies the software to flow more fuel into the system
__________________
2007 BSM 335i ZSP/ZPP l JB4 G5 ISO l E85 l BMS FLASH l METH l DCI l DPs l Twin BOVs l
Scoops l 18" Forgestar F14sl Koni Yellows l Swift Spec-R l GForce Rivals/Slicks l Quaife LSD
Exzackt is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #8
Laguna Seca Blue
Captain
 
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California

Posts: 817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzackt View Post
imo the fact the vishnu uses upgraded fuel lines tells you your answer. Unless you also get a cobb for the bms dme flash than you can't run a high percentage (over 50) of e85. Vishnu flashes the dme as part of the kit, which could be an issue if you're under warranty
The Vishnu flash is invisible to the dealer because it keeps your original DME serial number intact. As someone mentioned, it simply modifies up a few fueling and tables to allow the PROcede more flexibility when interacting with your DME. Everyone who has questions about Vishnu's flex fuel kit should read this:
http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/styled-19/index.html
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212
Laguna Seca Blue is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #9
Wedge1967
Banned
 
Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 2,173
iTrader: (3)

The Vishnu flex has its advantages. But just getting around the trim issue is only part of the problem. As you get into higher ethanol content, your LPFP will become the week point. I know, I had that issue, but not anymore. The new Vishnu pump is the answer to this issue, and not just for the Proceed users. Terry's solution although innovative, didn't resolve the problem. I put down 422whp on a Mustang dyno and was able to pull through the half mile this weekend without any codes.

So don't jump to conclusions until FFTEC goes production with the new pump. That and what ever solution you go with to fix your trims will allow you to take full advantage of e85 and unlock the power you're looking to make. This is also true for upgraded turbo's.
Wedge1967 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #10
pinky_and_me
Second Lieutenant
 
pinky_and_me's Avatar
 
Drives: N54 335xi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cleveland, OH

Posts: 273
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Is the Vishnu flex fuel kit better and safer than using jb4 map 5 when mixing?
I have the flexfuel kit.

I think jb4 can be just as safe but it requires that you datalog every time you fill up with gas to make sure you car is running well. And also modify maps if you want to squeeze more power based on the ethanol content.

Because I don't have to do the above and I still get the safe power levels based on ethanol content I think the flexfuel kit is better.
pinky_and_me is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 08:42 PM   #11
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostedE90 View Post
The PROcedeFlash is an update to the existing code running on your DME. They modify a few tables in the stock code and leave the rest of the tuning to the Procede.
Okay that's good to know...thanks
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 08:43 PM   #12
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
The Vishnu flex has its advantages. But just getting around the trim issue is only part of the problem. As you get into higher ethanol content, your LPFP will become the week point. I know, I had that issue, but not anymore. The new Vishnu pump is the answer to this issue, and not just for the Proceed users. Terry's solution although innovative, didn't resolve the problem. I put down 422whp on a Mustang dyno and was able to pull through the half mile this weekend without any codes.

So don't jump to conclusions until FFTEC goes production with the new pump. That and what ever solution you go with to fix your trims will allow you to take full advantage of e85 and unlock the power you're looking to make. This is also true for upgraded turbo's.
Thanks for the info man. I'm starting to like what I'm hearing
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 08:44 PM   #13
bmw335idizzle
Private
 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

Posts: 71
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinky_and_me View Post
I have the flexfuel kit.

I think jb4 can be just as safe but it requires that you datalog every time you fill up with gas to make sure you car is running well. And also modify maps if you want to squeeze more power based on the ethanol content.

Because I don't have to do the above and I still get the safe power levels based on ethanol content I think the flexfuel kit is better.
I think I'm going to switch to Vishnu soon. I always wanted to run e85 mix with jb4 but I was scared about the whole factory fuel pump and not knowing exactly how much mix am I running. It sounds like the Vishnu flex fuel kit will give me that safe peace of mind feeling.
bmw335idizzle is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #14
335inDe
New Member
 
Drives: 07' 335i
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Delaware

Posts: 21
iTrader: (1)

I run 60/40 E85/93 as much as possible..I'm on JB4 G5 isolated board..I have ever had issues with E85 ever..GL either way you go
335inDe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:09 PM   #15
spool twice
Rainbow Racer
 
spool twice's Avatar
 
Drives: S65B40
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL

Posts: 1,249
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
The Vishnu flex has its advantages. But just getting around the trim issue is only part of the problem. As you get into higher ethanol content, your LPFP will become the week point. I know, I had that issue, but not anymore. The new Vishnu pump is the answer to this issue, and not just for the Proceed users. Terry's solution although innovative, didn't resolve the problem. I put down 422whp on a Mustang dyno and was able to pull through the half mile this weekend without any codes.

So don't jump to conclusions until FFTEC goes production with the new pump. That and what ever solution you go with to fix your trims will allow you to take full advantage of e85 and unlock the power you're looking to make. This is also true for upgraded turbo's.
Have you tried Terry's solution? I can't wait to see Vishnu's pump when it's released, I've been dying to go higher than E60 and still see safe trims
__________________
E90 LCI M3 7-DCT Interlagos Blue/Novillo Silver
[MS Pullies|K&N drop-in|Test Pipes |Evolve Stage II tune|Evolve Servotronic Map|Evolve M3 GTS-DCT file]
spool twice is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:21 PM   #16
spool twice
Rainbow Racer
 
spool twice's Avatar
 
Drives: S65B40
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL

Posts: 1,249
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So I've been reading a lot regarding the Vishnu flex fuel kit and how it's really safe compared to the other piggybacks out there when it comes to mixing e85 with 91. Is the Vishnu flex fuel kit better and safer than using jb4 map 5 when mixing?
The JB4 is held back by the OEM fuel table's (which means E30-E60 depending on the particular car) w/o their back-end flash and relies on simulated lamda feedback to adjust OL to keep target A/F ratio. The target boost is adjusted base on monitoring (but not adjusting) the ignition timing curve on cyl 1. IIRC, E85/91 octane + DCI put down about 420rwhp on a dynojet, below what Vishnu's flex-fueled vehicles are putting down with their ability to run higher ethanol content.

Both are safe, but the Vishnu is easiest because it's a set it, and forget method. The JB4 requires some monitoring every once in awhile, but I've set it and forget it for the past 4 months after finding a reliable E85 source. Auto adjustment on the JB4 only occurs in 3rd-4th gears between 4,000-6,000rpm at WOT, something that I recommend 10 mins after every fill-up if you decide to keep the JB4.

Poor some in the tank and enjoy, start off slow. From my testing w/o methanol:

E20 cleans up timing up to 14.5 psi
E30 cleans up timing up to 15.5 psi
E40 cleans up timing up to 16.5 psi
E50 cleans up timing up to 17.5 psi

Power from any up'd ethanol content will bring a smile to your face. Take your pic and don't make the decision get complicated, it's a very simple task, this is from an "experienced" E85 user.
__________________
E90 LCI M3 7-DCT Interlagos Blue/Novillo Silver
[MS Pullies|K&N drop-in|Test Pipes |Evolve Stage II tune|Evolve Servotronic Map|Evolve M3 GTS-DCT file]
spool twice is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:28 PM   #17
KaiserN54
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 335I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Turbotown

Posts: 331
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exzackt View Post
If thats the case a nice feature of using the cobb is that you can reflash back and forth from stock to bms very easily. Obviously cobb's are not cheap so I would try finding one used on the for sale threads

I didn't know this before but Vishnu does not reflash your dme. They modify the existing software. Which should mean that you won't have any issues at the dealership. Not sure how many people have experience with this...
Well, thats the exact problem I happen to have right now. I am fairly certain that the software/flash/whatever is invisible to the dealer,but they will surely notice it when the car only makes 2 PSI of boost.

With the flexfuel reflash, the dme runs limited boost when the sensor is not hooked up and/or the proceed isn't hooked up.

Right now my new-ish turbos are failing, so I have to take it back to the dealer. Yet, I had to pay $80 to ship the damned thing back to vishnu to flash it back to OEM. (overnight from Ohio to Cali FTL) Then I have to put it back in and put some miles on it.

There certainly are downsides if you ever want delaer assistance on the turbos again...
KaiserN54 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:30 PM   #18
richpike
Captain
 
Drives: L322 RR, E90 335i
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CO - 6500ft ASL

Posts: 664
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
The Vishnu flash is invisible to the dealer because it keeps your original DME serial number intact. As someone mentioned, it simply modifies up a few fueling and tables to allow the PROcede more flexibility when interacting with your DME. Everyone who has questions about Vishnu's flex fuel kit should read this:
http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/styled-19/index.html
At one point I seem to remember there was an issue with boost when using the Vishnu flash (either no boost, or over boosting when turning it all off to go to the dealer). Is that not the case any more? I'd love to get the Vishnu FF kit, but I still have 3 years of warranty left and don't want to have to argue if something goes wrong.

TIA.
-Rich
__________________
2010 E90 335i Black Sapphire
COBB/PTF proTUNE/Alpina/BMS Drop-in/PSS/Blizzak

Best Stock 1/4 time = 14.1 @ 99.4 at Bandimere Speedway (DA = 7,400ft ASL; 13.5 @ 103 corrected)
richpike is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #19
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,442
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinky_and_me View Post
I have the flexfuel kit.

I think jb4 can be just as safe but it requires that you datalog every time you fill up with gas to make sure you car is running well. And also modify maps if you want to squeeze more power based on the ethanol content.

Because I don't have to do the above and I still get the safe power levels based on ethanol content I think the flexfuel kit is better.
No, the JB4 monitors timing advance and fuel trims and auto tunes itself when on E85. So you don't need to monitor anything. To run more than 50% E85 you normally also need the BMS flash which allows higher than OEM advance points and resolves the fuel trims issues.

Mike
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:34 PM   #20
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,442
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomos319 View Post
Well, thats the exact problem I happen to have right now. I am fairly certain that the software/flash/whatever is invisible to the dealer,but they will surely notice it when the car only makes 2 PSI of boost.

With the flexfuel reflash, the dme runs limited boost when the sensor is not hooked up and/or the proceed isn't hooked up.

Right now my new-ish turbos are failing, so I have to take it back to the dealer. Yet, I had to pay $80 to ship the damned thing back to vishnu to flash it back to OEM. (overnight from Ohio to Cali FTL) Then I have to put it back in and put some miles on it.

There certainly are downsides if you ever want delaer assistance on the turbos again...

Sending DME's back and forth for dealer visits is one headache. But I think the real issue is updates. New tables are found all the time and little revisions to the flash maps are frequent. So keeping the flash side up to date with the latest VANOS change, or IAT decay, or whatever else these guys have planned, could be a real headache unless you can load the flashes at home.

Mike
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:45 PM   #21
Laguna Seca Blue
Captain
 
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California

Posts: 817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Sending DME's back and forth for dealer visits is one headache. But I think the real issue is updates. New tables are found all the time and little revisions to the flash maps are frequent. So keeping the flash side up to date with the latest VANOS change, or IAT decay, or whatever else these guys have planned, could be a real headache unless you can load the flashes at home.

Mike
It's interesting that you refer to it as the BMS flash conveniently leaving out the fact that you have to pay for a $800 Cobb AP in order to flash your DME.

Also, as Spool Twice mentioned, you can only set it and forget it if you have a steady supply of E85, if your fuel mix changes dramatically, well, you better be monitoring your data logs pretty carefully.
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212
Laguna Seca Blue is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-12-2012, 09:54 PM   #22
Laguna Seca Blue
Captain
 
Laguna Seca Blue's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California

Posts: 817
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richpike View Post
At one point I seem to remember there was an issue with boost when using the Vishnu flash (either no boost, or over boosting when turning it all off to go to the dealer). Is that not the case any more? I'd love to get the Vishnu FF kit, but I still have 3 years of warranty left and don't want to have to argue if something goes wrong.

TIA.
-Rich
Speak to Shiv man, he's probably sorted the issue out. Cool to see you're in Colorado, must be nice having a turbocharged car up there. When I lived there my naturally aspirated 6 cylinder Mazda 6 would huff and puff up the passes
__________________
E92 335i 6MT | Balloon White | Black Dakota Leather
PROcede Rev3 V5 | AE Quad Exhaust | BMW Performance Short Shift Kit | Gunmetal 19" M3 GTS Wheels | BF Goodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 | AST 4100 Coilovers | Swift Springs F:280 R:560 | ER Charge Pipe | Tial Blue BOV | VRSF 3" Downpipes | VRSF 7" Intercooler

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782212
Laguna Seca Blue is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST