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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vishnu flex fuel kit or jb4 when using e85:91 mix



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      11-13-2012, 08:49 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Laguna Seca Blue View Post
I really don't want to go over the same points over and over. The flash itself is not invasive, and leaves the DME serial unchanged. A dealership won't be able to detect that it's been altered. Apparently someone with an early version was having underboost issues when they completely removed their PROcede and flex fuel sensor, but I'm fairly certain Shiv has resolved that issue. Speak to him.
Okay, just for clarification. So when I send my dme to get it reflashed to use the flex fuel it, if I ever need to take it to BMW for service check up, I can remove the Vishnu and flex fuel kit and th dealership will not know I ever had it on right? And my boost won't be at 2-3psi? Cause on the Vishnu website, it says my boost will be low like 2-3psi due to the reflash.
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      11-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #68
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haha, ok Nancy. LOL Sorry, I could resist.

Serg's car is very fast, he was kicking some @$$ this weekend... and yes he pulled on me and should have pulled on me much harder than he did. His car also has a 300+ lb. weight advantage. CF hood, CF trunk, Seat removed and he weighs 100 lbs less than me. To be fair 500rw could be high considering the Mustang was at 422, but thats the highest hp numbers FFTEC has ever seen with stock turbos. Even Trevor's car only made 375 on 100% e85 and he has slips showing low to mid 11's. Also, Shiv never ran his car on stock turbo's with e85, so saying it's not possible for me to make 50 hp more than my tuner ever made on stock turbo's just isn't using good logic.

Thomas's G.I.A.C. B5 S4 was listed at 500hp and we were bumper to bumper. Really a great race. I just wish I would have raced him a few more times because it was a rush to have two cars that close going bumper to bumper all the way down the track. I think Serg also pulled a car or two on Thomas, so that make sense.

I plan on going to HPF to get numbers on their Dynojet as a comparison. I'll post the numbers when I get them.

So regardless of what I actually made because it doesn't really matter, my car was faster than any other stock turbo car at the event, that is something that NO ONE can deny. The positive thing that comes from this is we know the FFTEC fuel pump works. Upgraded turbos and other tunes should benefit from this pump.

For me, I have no other option now but to look for upgraded turbo's if I want to make more power, but I think I'll wait until they figure out how to fix the AT issues. Thanks Mike.

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Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
To be honest 500rw sounds way out of line for stock turbos even with E85. Most guys make 430-450rw. Sick335 makes 500rw and he seemed to be pulling away from you very easily? Tuners always test everything first on their shop cars before sending them off to customers. It seems strange to me also your tune would make 50whp more than they did. Not trying to be a negative Nancy but as they say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence right?

Mike
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      11-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #69
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Okay, just for clarification. So when I send my dme to get it reflashed to use the flex fuel it, if I ever need to take it to BMW for service check up, I can remove the Vishnu and flex fuel kit and th dealership will not know I ever had it on right? And my boost won't be at 2-3psi? Cause on the Vishnu website, it says my boost will be low like 2-3psi due to the reflash.
They won't be able to tell it's flashed- but you will make LOW boost.

Could be a set-up for a cruel "WTF" for the dealer...
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      11-13-2012, 08:58 PM   #70
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They won't be able to tell it's flashed- but you will make LOW boost.

Could be a set-up for a cruel "WTF" for the dealer...
That's what I'm afraid of with the whole reflash dme with Vishnu. The dealership might look into my dme in depth because the boost is way too low.
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      11-13-2012, 09:18 PM   #71
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JB4 actually has to run more aggressive timing through the ATP flash because the G5 board cannot advance timing.
One is a worry free, complete solution, the other is not and they cost almost the same! In fact, if you went the BMS way with Vishnu it would only cost you a little more than $700 (Rev2.5 + $99 flash + shipping DME)
To be clear, Terry has stated that the JB4 (G4 or G5) can advance ignition timing via a firmware change, but he doesn't want the liability of careless (a.k.a. dumb) people to adjust something that can potentially harm the car. He also doesn't feel CPS-offset is the best solution for proper ignition control, which is why he leaves it to the flash map to control it.

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Spool Twice - Perhaps you should look up the definition of propaganda. E90post accepts all points of view. The other forum that a number of you frequent shuts out contrarian perspectives. Talk about a vehicle for Propaganda. Unlike many of you, it doesn't bother me when you disagree with me. I appreciate it.
I have, and find it all over a lot of people's post, whats your point? I simply told the O/P to break through it and read through the facts and listen to more experience E85 users. Did that post ignite a flame with you as if it was directed towards you?

On a side note, whats with you constantly needing to bring up the "other" forum all the time? How does that pertain to this thread?
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      11-13-2012, 09:30 PM   #72
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To Laguna seca blue and mike n54tuning... I'm sorry if my thread caused issues between you two. I started the thread to gather information from users who have either a jb4 running e85 mix and users with flex fuel kit. I want to know which route is safer and produce the horsepower as well.
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      11-13-2012, 09:33 PM   #73
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To Laguna seca blue and mike n54tuning... I'm sorry if my thread caused issues between you two. I started the thread to gather information from users who have either a jb4 running e85 mix and users with flex fuel kit. I want to know which route is safer and produce the horsepower as well.
It usually does between those two It keeps lurking the forums entertaining
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      11-13-2012, 09:34 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
The positive thing that comes from this is we know the FFTEC fuel pump works. Upgraded turbos and other tunes should benefit from this pump.
can't wait to see the release of the Vishnu/FFTEC fuel pump, especially w/ the results you're getting from them
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      11-13-2012, 10:01 PM   #75
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It usually does between those two It keeps lurking the forums entertaining
Jb4 and Vishnu are both great companies....just trying to figure what I want.
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      11-13-2012, 10:08 PM   #76
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Jb4 and Vishnu are both great companies....just trying to figure what I want.
They are, you really can't go wrong with either. The main difference is the procede unit it more 'evolved' than the JB4, but there isn't a bad tune for the N54.
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      11-13-2012, 10:16 PM   #77
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Not to push anyones buttons, but depending on what you want to do with your car, COBB is a very good looking option if you just want plug-n-play. So keep an open mind and don't let the price drive your tune. Eventually if you want to make big power with the JB you'll end up getting a COBB to flash your tables anyway. At that point you may as well use the JB for meth control. At the end of the day COBB, GIAC, Vishnu, and JB are all making good power. What ever you end up getting just have fun...

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Jb4 and Vishnu are both great companies....just trying to figure what I want.
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      11-13-2012, 10:24 PM   #78
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What ever you end up getting just have fun...
+1 Best quote in this thread

I've been running an E50/93 mix + methanol since Jan '12 running 17.5psi, and using my own judgement despite being an amateur at the time; this was long before the current array of tune's that auto-tune with built-in fail-safes.

Take it from people who've actually had the experience with E85 mixture's, it's not hard to do.
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      11-13-2012, 10:44 PM   #79
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I have the Flex kit, but I only use it to see what my Ethanol % is. I'm running map 4 because I still run 100% meth. Like that fact I can pull back to back without timing drops.

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+1 Best quote in this thread

I've been running an E50/93 mix + methanol since Jan '12 running 17.5psi, and using my own judgement despite being an amateur at the time; this was long before the current array of tune's that auto-tune with built-in fail-safes.

Take it from people who've actually had the experience with E85 mixture's, it's not hard to do.
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      11-13-2012, 10:56 PM   #80
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I have the Flex kit, but I only use it to see what my Ethanol % is. I'm running map 4 because I still run 100% meth. Like that fact I can pull back to back without timing drops.
It's a wonderful feeling of constant power. I'm definitely not discounting the Flex-kit, it serves it's purpose and does it well, especially when running higher ethanol mixtures and running more aggressive fuel tables.
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      11-14-2012, 07:38 AM   #81
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Wow this is very informative. I know this info isn't towards my thread/question but it really helped me decide what's best.
It's also completely bias.
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      11-14-2012, 08:49 AM   #82
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haha, ok Nancy. LOL Sorry, I could resist.

Serg's car is very fast, he was kicking some @$$ this weekend... and yes he pulled on me and should have pulled on me much harder than he did. His car also has a 300+ lb. weight advantage. CF hood, CF trunk, Seat removed and he weighs 100 lbs less than me. To be fair 500rw could be high considering the Mustang was at 422, but thats the highest hp numbers FFTEC has ever seen with stock turbos. Even Trevor's car only made 375 on 100% e85 and he has slips showing low to mid 11's. Also, Shiv never ran his car on stock turbo's with e85, so saying it's not possible for me to make 50 hp more than my tuner ever made on stock turbo's just isn't using good logic.

Thomas's G.I.A.C. B5 S4 was listed at 500hp and we were bumper to bumper. Really a great race. I just wish I would have raced him a few more times because it was a rush to have two cars that close going bumper to bumper all the way down the track. I think Serg also pulled a car or two on Thomas, so that make sense.

I plan on going to HPF to get numbers on their Dynojet as a comparison. I'll post the numbers when I get them.

So regardless of what I actually made because it doesn't really matter, my car was faster than any other stock turbo car at the event, that is something that NO ONE can deny. The positive thing that comes from this is we know the FFTEC fuel pump works. Upgraded turbos and other tunes should benefit from this pump.

For me, I have no other option now but to look for upgraded turbo's if I want to make more power, but I think I'll wait until they figure out how to fix the AT issues. Thanks Mike.
I hope it makes a ton of power! Can't wait to see your charts.

On the pump we know the cheap Walbro works great for 100% E85 stock turbos. 100% E85 RB turbo fueling is another story all together. Are any 100% E85 RB turbo cars running the FFTEC one yet?

Mike
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      11-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #83
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Well, the same can be said about a new stock pump depending on peak torque. BrianMN does a lot of testing with eXX and at high rates new pumps work fine for most cars. I put down 448ft/lbs on the Mustang so realistically it should be good for 500+ torque on a Dynojet. I know FFTEC designed and tested this solution. They took into consideration all the factors so hopefully the RB guys can take advantage of this and turn up the power. Would be cool to see a set of RB's put down 600 wheel on e85.

With regard to my car, I'm thinking 480ish. Just being realistic. I was thinking 400 was a good target on the Mustang because Trevor's car with 100% e85 was making 375ish. Watching Serg's Sick335 pull on me wasn't disappointing knowing he has RB's and a few hundred pounds down with the seat pulled and CF parts, not to mention my weight vs his. All in all it was a good race. I wish I wouldn't have screwed up the start. I ended up leaving in second because he wanted to roll at 40 and I spun, then had to grab 3rd. By then it was too late he was already pulling away. So looking back, good clean start, same weight, he probably would have only got a couple of cars on me in a half mile rather than 5 or 6...


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I hope it makes a ton of power! Can't wait to see your charts.

On the pump we know the cheap Walbro works great for 100% E85 stock turbos. 100% E85 RB turbo fueling is another story all together. Are any 100% E85 RB turbo cars running the FFTEC one yet?

Mike
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      11-14-2012, 11:22 AM   #84
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Not to push anyones buttons, but depending on what you want to do with your car, COBB is a very good looking option if you just want plug-n-play. So keep an open mind and don't let the price drive your tune. Eventually if you want to make big power with the JB you'll end up getting a COBB to flash your tables anyway. At that point you may as well use the JB for meth control. At the end of the day COBB, GIAC, Vishnu, and JB are all making good power. What ever you end up getting just have fun...
I'm honestly beating between keepin my jb4 and mix e85:91 on map 5 (upgrade to G5 ISO) or switch over to Vishnu procede rev 3 with flex fuel kit. Now from what I'm learning, the both need reflash. As for the jb4, it needs Cobb/bms flash when running high e85 %, does it also cause the boost to run low when you remove the jb4 since its flashed? Also, from what I'm getting, jb4 and Vishnu will produce over 400whp but which one is safer? It sounds like flex fuel kit is pretty safe. I really like the fact that I will know how much ethanol mixture I have every time I fill up. Vishnu seems to not only produce great whp but also provides great safety measures like advancing time, good a:f ratio and etc. my goal is to run e85:91 the most safest way for my car. I wish someone can do a pro and cons of running jb4 G5 iso vs Vishnu procede rev 3 with flex fuel kit.
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      11-14-2012, 11:23 AM   #85
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They are, you really can't go wrong with either. The main difference is the procede unit it more 'evolved' than the JB4, but there isn't a bad tune for the N54.
What would you say Vishnu flex fuel kit has to offer that jb4 g5 can't? One I know is knowing exact % of ethanol is in my car. Any others?
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      11-14-2012, 11:26 AM   #86
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+1 Best quote in this thread

I've been running an E50/93 mix + methanol since Jan '12 running 17.5psi, and using my own judgement despite being an amateur at the time; this was long before the current array of tune's that auto-tune with built-in fail-safes.

Take it from people who've actually had the experience with E85 mixture's, it's not hard to do.
What exactly are your mods if you don't mind me asking. Jb4 G5 ISO? Using e85:93 with meth on which map? How much whp you pulling?
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      11-14-2012, 05:55 PM   #87
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Well, I'm not going to tell you to switch because the PROcede is better, it has options the JB doesn't. But at the end of the day it's all about what you want to do and how you want to do it.

The Flex Fuel options is nice because you can set your car on map 3 and you can set the percentage of Ethanol in the map to switch between pump gas and Ethanol tunes without you doing anything at all other than pumping the fuel. Map 3 auto switches between map 1 and 2, you also have map 4 that lets you use map 2 with Methanol fail safes. AFR targets, Trim Tables, Timing, and Boost Targets are the same for maps 1,2/4, but map 3 allows additional function for boost, ignition correction, OL Fuel, and AFR Enleanment when running the Flex Fuel option.

BTW, I could be sitting on the Stock Turbo HP Record pulling 422 whp on a Mustang Dyno Friday before Shift S3ctor. I'm going Friday to pull on a DynoJet, so if you really want to make as much power as you can, the PROcede Flex Fuel is making big numbers on stock turbos.

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I'm honestly beating between keepin my jb4 and mix e85:91 on map 5 (upgrade to G5 ISO) or switch over to Vishnu procede rev 3 with flex fuel kit. Now from what I'm learning, the both need reflash. As for the jb4, it needs Cobb/bms flash when running high e85 %, does it also cause the boost to run low when you remove the jb4 since its flashed? Also, from what I'm getting, jb4 and Vishnu will produce over 400whp but which one is safer? It sounds like flex fuel kit is pretty safe. I really like the fact that I will know how much ethanol mixture I have every time I fill up. Vishnu seems to not only produce great whp but also provides great safety measures like advancing time, good a:f ratio and etc. my goal is to run e85:91 the most safest way for my car. I wish someone can do a pro and cons of running jb4 G5 iso vs Vishnu procede rev 3 with flex fuel kit.
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