PTF UPDATE: 553WHP 631WTQ - N54 TwinTurbo World Record - Page 5 - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

enrita · 11-14-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake@PTF

The great thing about a car is that you modulate power output with your foot. If someone wants to overlay the dynos of Dzenno's car on top of that supercharged M3 dyno you will see how the tq (although not flat) still is well above the tq of the flat curve from the m3.

The point of this dyno post was to show where the car is going with some tuning (not finished) on a ported head and where that can take us. As we add more timing to the top end and shift setpoints and boost a little further north you will see things flatten out.

When the tune is finished we will post the curve up again. We will be going on to e85, ms109, and different mixes and matches of these with meth as well to push the car and see what it is capable of. You all know Dzenno is not gentle with the car and you will see any and all info as he beats on it and records data for everyone to benefit from.

cant wait

Fully_Bolted · 11-14-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

I personally dont care to much about A LOT of torque. It justs needs to be linear and controllable so I dont keep spinning tires on track/canyons

To be fair, the results of the M3 powerband are because of the centrifugal blower. If you took an N54 and tuned it to build boost linearly and peak at redline, it would look similar.

G.I.Joe · 11-14-2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake@PTF

The great thing about a car is that you modulate power output with your foot. If someone wants to overlay the dynos of Dzenno's car on top of that supercharged M3 dyno you will see how the tq (although not flat) still is well above the tq of the flat curve from the m3.

The point of this dyno post was to show where the car is going with some tuning (not finished) on a ported head and where that can take us. As we add more timing to the top end and shift setpoints and boost a little further north you will see things flatten out.

When the tune is finished we will post the curve up again. We will be going on to e85, ms109, and different mixes and matches of these with meth as well to push the car and see what it is capable of. You all know Dzenno is not gentle with the car and you will see any and all info as he beats on it and records data for everyone to benefit from.

I think the results are awesome. Dzenno is also working on maps for my RB car, I just have to get my software updated to get further yet. As my car has 128k km on the odometer, this whole ported head thing is starting to look very interesting, promising even

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 11-14-2012, 09:24 AM

Nice numbers..

The images stopped displaying for me?

Mike

BmwECY · 11-14-2012, 09:39 AM

honestly, all drama aside, this isn't all that impressive to me. yes, 631 w-ft-lbs is impressive on a stock block.

look at the HP curve, though. i'm not as concerned with the 300 w-ft-lbs fall off as i am the HP peaking at 4.5k - 5k rpms. with a ported head. and upgraded turbo's.

the stock twin turbo's will carry power well into 5.5k - 6k rpms with proper tuning.

regardless, congrats on breaking the rb turbo dyno record. hopefully, PTF can tune the car more to carry HP through 6k rpms, and avoid the 4.5k rpm peak as it sits currently.

i'd be rather disappointed with this, having compared Dzenno's previous dyno graphs with RB's, where HP peaked later in the RPM range and didn't fall off so drastically.

Rob@RBTurbo · 11-14-2012, 09:48 AM

People are missing the point massively here. He just is utilizing the turbos max flow potential throughout the whole RPM range, with some preliminary tuning, and some big end compressor restrictions in the OEM induction tubes. He didnt do this to get the most godly powerband to ever have been seen on mother earth, he again did it to begin a path of extracting all forced airflow potential across the RPM band and to see where things go with more refined tuning and removing some obvious (yet simple) hardware limitations (ie. inlet tubes). The cylinder heads/CR reduction seem to have given him a very big window opening to tune further per octane level as well.

BmwECY · 11-14-2012, 09:52 AM

so, turbo inlet pipes are required to carry HP past 4.5k rpms? not a ported head or upgraded turbo's. honestly, in my opinion, this shows the strengths (and weaknesses) of the RB turbo's. they're midrange monsters. upper RPM's though, same story as it has been for the past few years. the turbo housings are too restrictive at upper RPM's. power falls off, EGT's probably are higher, etc.

for me, if i was going to spend thousands of dollars on my e92 for a ported head, RB turbo's, install, etc......i'd just the same get a single turbo kit. that power band is better suited for drag racing and 60-130's.

i will say that RB turbo's with their massive midrange power probably make for an excellent street car.

cheers.

Fully_Bolted · 11-14-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBeck

People are missing the point massively here. He just is utilizing the turbos max flow potential throughout the whole RPM range, with some preliminary tuning, and some big end compressor restrictions in the OEM induction tubes. He didnt do this to get the most godly powerband to ever have been seen on mother earth, he again did it to begin a path of extracting all forced airflow potential across the RPM band and to see where things go with more refined tuning and removing some obvious (yet simple) hardware limitations (ie. inlet tubes). The cylinder heads/CR reduction seem to have given him a very big window opening to tune further per octane level as well.

Very well put.

Rob@RBTurbo · 11-14-2012, 09:53 AM

Then it is settled for you then, get r done!

BmwECY · 11-14-2012, 09:57 AM

this is an older dyno from Dzenno. just posting to illustrate how the powerband has shifted with the dyno in the OP. not stirring the pot, just posting my observations.

Rob@RBTurbo · 11-14-2012, 10:04 AM

Yes. Read what I just wrote quite a few times. Then compare the OPs dyno vs. that one. Eventually you will get the drift of what is going on here.

Fully_Bolted · 11-14-2012, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Yes. Read what I just wrote quite a few times. Then compare the OPs dyno vs. that one. Eventually you will get the drift of what is going on here.

BmwECY · 11-14-2012, 10:33 AM

i'll reserve any future comments until PTF shows a similar powerband with RB turnbo's, with more than 450whp at 6k rpms. please, i'd love to be proven wrong.

joec500 · 11-14-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmacc

Are you going to end up replacing the stock ones? or just going to replace the broken one with another stock one?

If I wasn't leaving the country next week for vacation, I would have waited for upgraded shafts, but I need to send DSS working driveshafts as core. so regardless I need another stocker. I would look for used ones, but I just don't have the time, so FFTEC is putting on a stock one and I need to just be a hair easier on the car until I upgrade them. Also I am looking into suspension upgrades to reduce wheel hop, which should help keeping the stock half shafts intact.

Fully_Bolted · 11-14-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmwECY

i'll reserve any future comments until PTF shows a similar powerband with RB turnbo's, with more than 450whp at 6k rpms. please, i'd love to be proven wrong.

.... 500whp at 6k in the first post....

Jake@PTF · 11-14-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmwECY

i'll reserve any future comments until PTF shows a similar powerband with RB turnbo's, with more than 450whp at 6k rpms. please, i'd love to be proven wrong.

The car is making 500whp at 6000rpms in the dyno we posted.

You guys are missing the point. This isn't a final tune. This was Dzenan playing on the dyno. To flatten out the tq curve and shift hp higher it will just require moving some setpoints north and carrying the timing to redline. When you jump on a dyno at night and the operator doesn't want to stay until midnight you can only get so far.

Stucks · 11-14-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fully_Bolted

.... 500whp at 6k in the first post....

lol.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 11-14-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BmwECY

i'll reserve any future comments until PTF shows a similar powerband with RB turnbo's, with more than 450whp at 6k rpms. please, i'd love to be proven wrong.

Same graph, highlighted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake@PTF

The car is making 500whp at 6000rpms in the dyno we posted.

You guys are missing the point. This isn't a final tune. This was Dzenan playing on the dyno. To flatten out the tq curve and shift hp higher it will just require moving some setpoints north and carrying the timing to redline. When you jump on a dyno at night and the operator doesn't want to stay until midnight you can only get so far.

I hear ya. There is always room for improvement especially when dealing with time constraints.

Joshboody · 11-14-2012, 11:54 AM

I'd be surprised if much more can be gained in the top... but very anxious to see. The low CR will hurt top end (and maybe all around). When the restriction is turbo flow, you can't supplement with O2.

Ænema · 11-14-2012, 11:59 AM

Just my personal opinion but dropping the CR isn't exactly helping.

Rob@RBTurbo · 11-14-2012, 12:12 PM

People definitely also need to consider that turbo upgrades such as RBs were not meant to be the end all be all. From the end users perspective they are a simple bolt on that is supposed to give quite a bit more bang. There most definitely is a point, pending on ones goals, that you simply just need to dump it all in the garbage... and go bigger. Bottom line.

Rob@RBTurbo · 11-14-2012, 12:14 PM

It is too preliminary to judge, but the head mods as we may later learn really cause the N54 as a whole to BEG for a large single. I have always felt that there will be major gains from a very high quality head mod for those guys with the ST.

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ænema

Just my personal opinion but dropping the CR isn't exactly helping.

11-14-2012, 09:24 AM	#92
Mike@N54Tuning.com BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 07335i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Earth Posts: 12,238 iTrader: (78)	Nice numbers.. The images stopped displaying for me? Mike __________________ Lowest Price GUARANTEED on ALL PRODUCTS!! JB4 G5 On Sale - FREE Shipping Click Me - NEW JB4(N55) & DCI's $95.00 NEW F30-328 N20 Tune(Stage1) BMS Oil Catch Can (On Sale)

11-14-2012, 11:59 AM	#108
Ænema Captain Drives: BMW Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Arizona Bay Posts: 864 iTrader: (0)	Just my personal opinion but dropping the CR isn't exactly helping. __________________ "I'm not surprised you get along well with all the other neighbours. If you put fifty children with Down's syndrome in a room there is going to be a lot of hugging." David Thorne

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11-14-2012, 09:39 AM	#93
BmwECY Enlisted Member Drives: Bmw Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Earth Posts: 39 iTrader: (0)	honestly, all drama aside, this isn't all that impressive to me. yes, 631 w-ft-lbs is impressive on a stock block. look at the HP curve, though. i'm not as concerned with the 300 w-ft-lbs fall off as i am the HP peaking at 4.5k - 5k rpms. with a ported head. and upgraded turbo's. the stock twin turbo's will carry power well into 5.5k - 6k rpms with proper tuning. regardless, congrats on breaking the rb turbo dyno record. hopefully, PTF can tune the car more to carry HP through 6k rpms, and avoid the 4.5k rpm peak as it sits currently. i'd be rather disappointed with this, having compared Dzenno's previous dyno graphs with RB's, where HP peaked later in the RPM range and didn't fall off so drastically.

11-14-2012, 09:48 AM	#94
Rob@RBTurbo BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 335I Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 719 iTrader: (3)	People are missing the point massively here. He just is utilizing the turbos max flow potential throughout the whole RPM range, with some preliminary tuning, and some big end compressor restrictions in the OEM induction tubes. He didnt do this to get the most godly powerband to ever have been seen on mother earth, he again did it to begin a path of extracting all forced airflow potential across the RPM band and to see where things go with more refined tuning and removing some obvious (yet simple) hardware limitations (ie. inlet tubes). The cylinder heads/CR reduction seem to have given him a very big window opening to tune further per octane level as well.

11-14-2012, 09:52 AM	#95
BmwECY Enlisted Member Drives: Bmw Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Earth Posts: 39 iTrader: (0)	so, turbo inlet pipes are required to carry HP past 4.5k rpms? not a ported head or upgraded turbo's. honestly, in my opinion, this shows the strengths (and weaknesses) of the RB turbo's. they're midrange monsters. upper RPM's though, same story as it has been for the past few years. the turbo housings are too restrictive at upper RPM's. power falls off, EGT's probably are higher, etc. for me, if i was going to spend thousands of dollars on my e92 for a ported head, RB turbo's, install, etc......i'd just the same get a single turbo kit. that power band is better suited for drag racing and 60-130's. i will say that RB turbo's with their massive midrange power probably make for an excellent street car. cheers.

11-14-2012, 09:53 AM	#97
Rob@RBTurbo BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 335I Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 719 iTrader: (3)	Then it is settled for you then, get r done!

11-14-2012, 09:57 AM	#98
BmwECY Enlisted Member Drives: Bmw Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Earth Posts: 39 iTrader: (0)	this is an older dyno from Dzenno. just posting to illustrate how the powerband has shifted with the dyno in the OP. not stirring the pot, just posting my observations.

11-14-2012, 10:04 AM	#99
Rob@RBTurbo BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 335I Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 719 iTrader: (3)	Yes. Read what I just wrote quite a few times. Then compare the OPs dyno vs. that one. Eventually you will get the drift of what is going on here.

11-14-2012, 10:33 AM	#101
BmwECY Enlisted Member Drives: Bmw Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Earth Posts: 39 iTrader: (0)	i'll reserve any future comments until PTF shows a similar powerband with RB turnbo's, with more than 450whp at 6k rpms. please, i'd love to be proven wrong.

11-14-2012, 11:54 AM	#107
Joshboody Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2008 BMW 335i E90 6MT v5 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,546 iTrader: (7)	I'd be surprised if much more can be gained in the top... but very anxious to see. The low CR will hurt top end (and maybe all around). When the restriction is turbo flow, you can't supplement with O2.

11-14-2012, 12:12 PM	#109
Rob@RBTurbo BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: 335I Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 719 iTrader: (3)	People definitely also need to consider that turbo upgrades such as RBs were not meant to be the end all be all. From the end users perspective they are a simple bolt on that is supposed to give quite a bit more bang. There most definitely is a point, pending on ones goals, that you simply just need to dump it all in the garbage... and go bigger. Bottom line.