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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Made the switch from Procede V5 to JB4 G5 ISO with dyno..



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      11-14-2012, 08:53 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Did you ever think of adding the flex fuel kit
That's still on the table...ive just been disappointed. FBO minus fmic on pump gas i only dynoed at 335 rwhp/355 lb-ft. Underwhelming. I'm having some issues with the car and they might be hardware-related. Taking to the dealer soon. After that's sorted I'll try the procede again, but if it's not performing well then I'll try the JB4 for a few weeks. Just seems like people are putting down really impressive numbers with auto tune maps and E85 on the JB4. Procede requires a lot of fussing it seems and I don't have the time/knowledge to be constantly messing with this thing.
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      11-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #46
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Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
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      11-14-2012, 09:26 AM   #47
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Glad you're happy with the new tune

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      11-14-2012, 10:28 AM   #48
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vishnu procede was the bench mark for teh ISO jb4 gen 5. no surprises here. terry has better customer service. terry has recognized the value in a flash + piggy and works indirectly with cobb. congrats, OP. your power level increase is awesome.

shiv probably will never concede that a flash + piggy was the best option last year. not until the "procede flash" came out did people realize a piggy is limited to fueling ceilings. i, for one, will continue to use cobb and piggy combo's.

terry is primed to take over the piggy market. the only thing vishnu has going for them lately is the single turbo and the flex fuel kit. the procede flash helps out when you're at the limit of a piggy. cobb + jb4 is essentially a better option.
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      11-14-2012, 11:31 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmwECY View Post
vishnu procede was the bench mark for teh ISO jb4 gen 5. no surprises here. terry has better customer service. terry has recognized the value in a flash + piggy and works indirectly with cobb. congrats, OP. your power level increase is awesome.

shiv probably will never concede that a flash + piggy was the best option last year. not until the "procede flash" came out did people realize a piggy is limited to fueling ceilings. i, for one, will continue to use cobb and piggy combo's.

terry is primed to take over the piggy market. the only thing vishnu has going for them lately is the single turbo and the flex fuel kit. the procede flash helps out when you're at the limit of a piggy. cobb + jb4 is essentially a better option.
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
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      11-14-2012, 11:37 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Ok, so I will not get into all the details as to why I switched other than a few very important factors, Customer Service....Terry has been nothing short of amazing in getting my car to the point at which it is now. Second of all I couldn't get my car to run correctly on the Procede and Vishnu kept blaming Injectors, Spark plus etc to why my car wasnt making power.

So here are the dyno runs- E92 335i 6mt

Procede V5 Rev 3, 93oct/e85, 50/50, 3" DP's DCI's and an FMIC the car made 385.11Whp and 412.43Wtq at 53* temps.

JB4 G5 ISO 93/e85 50/50 Mix, 3" DP's DCI's and an FMIC the car made a best of 441.59whp and 483.93wtq this was with the clutch slipping very badly. So the highest full pull I was able to make was 433.59whp and 474.93wtq this was 64* temps.

So I am very happy with this switch and the car is so much faster on the street! I have also added the BMS/Cobb backend flash, 100% E85 and NLS 2 Step it is amazing what this car feels like on a 30* night and full throttle shifting.

I just ordered a clutch and will be hitting the dyno once again. I tried scanning the dyno sheets and can't get them to upload correctly will try again when I get home.
Which map are you running on? Map 5 auto tune or map 7?
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      11-14-2012, 11:41 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickem View Post
That's still on the table...ive just been disappointed. FBO minus fmic on pump gas i only dynoed at 335 rwhp/355 lb-ft. Underwhelming. I'm having some issues with the car and they might be hardware-related. Taking to the dealer soon. After that's sorted I'll try the procede again, but if it's not performing well then I'll try the JB4 for a few weeks. Just seems like people are putting down really impressive numbers with auto tune maps and E85 on the JB4. Procede requires a lot of fussing it seems and I don't have the time/knowledge to be constantly messing with this thing.
Yeah I'm the same way man, I don't the time to constantly messing with my car all the time. Like I want something that I can depend on that will make my car run safe but yet pull some good numbers... Flex fuel kit seems pretty safe and so does the jb4 g5 iso.
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      11-14-2012, 11:48 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Yes this was on the same dyno. About the same boost on each I think the jb4 holds more to redline and peaks a little more. My car had/has no problems all I did was switch tunes....
I hope you realize the PRocede is more the capable of running the same boost as the JB4. The tune wasn't the difference in power, just the actual tuning of the tune. I could dig deeper here and there in if's and's or but's but it will just create chaos among the community.

Eitherway, as long as your happy it doesn't really matter what tune you use.

Enjoy

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 11-14-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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      11-14-2012, 11:54 AM   #53
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Ok, so I ran map 5 as that made the highest power numbers. I would however like to re dyno the car on map 7 now that I am on 100% e85 and I was not the day of the dyno.

I am very happy with the switch and to clarify I have been running the 50/50 mix on the jb4 for several months with no problems NONE.

I only bought the bms flash for the reasons I previously stated 100% e85 usage and Timing advance. As terry told me this flash may not be for everyone as its not cheap but I think it was well worth the money!
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      11-14-2012, 12:27 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
The difference is BMS doesn't use a "flex fuel" sensor. Which means you don't need to cut or work with fuel lines (introducing possible fuel leaks) to install it. From their perspective a flex fuel sensor is an unnecessary complication when you can use auto learning strategies (monitoring advance and fuel trims) to get the same basic information. The drawback with the BMS approach comes during extreme changes in ethanol content. Like if you accidentally put in 91 octane instead of 100% E85 AND forget to reset the auto learning (which takes 3 seconds in dash) you may pickup some engine knock the first time you stomp on it until the learning algorithm realizes the fuel has changed.

On the tuning end if using more than 40-50% E85 they suggest their flash along with the JB4. You load the BMS flash at home in your driveway. You do not need to remove and ship around your DME. When going in for warranty work you can also unload it from your driveway. When new maps and tricks are made you again can load them in your driveway without shipping things around and having down time with the car. Simple. Plus, the device they use for the BMS flash maps, the Cobb AP, has a killer resale value if you ever sell the car.

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      11-14-2012, 12:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The difference is BMS doesn't use a "flex fuel" sensor. Which means you don't need to cut or work with fuel lines (introducing possible fuel leaks) to install it. From their perspective a flex fuel sensor is an unnecessary complication when you can use auto learning strategies (monitoring advance and fuel trims) to get the same basic information. The drawback with the BMS approach comes during extreme changes in ethanol content. Like if you accidentally put in 91 octane instead of 100% E85 AND forget to reset the auto learning (which takes 3 seconds in dash) you may pickup some engine knock the first time you stomp on it until the learning algorithm realizes the fuel has changed.

On the tuning end if using more than 40-50% E85 they suggest their flash along with the JB4. You load the BMS flash at home in your driveway. You do not need to remove and ship around your DME. When going in for warranty work you can also unload it from your driveway. When new maps and tricks are made you again can load them in your driveway without shipping things around and having down time with the car. Simple. Plus, the device they use for the BMS flash maps, the Cobb AP, has a killer resale value if you ever sell the car.

Mike
This is what sold me on the flash!
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      11-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
This is what sold me on the flash!
yeah its no brainer at all and if you have an issue you can always test both alone and see if its tuning related
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      11-14-2012, 01:22 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
Two things to consider:

1. You do not need anything other than the JB4 G5 up to 50% mixes. The benefit past 50% is minimal performance wise (about 10hp more MAYBE) but it will allow you to use only one pump obviously.

2. The Cobb, if you decided to flash with BMS flash also, has significant resale value. Its not like you lose the money on the flash. Don't forget the Cobb is an entire tuning solution in itself which you can update with free downloads.

The main benefit left for the Proceed is the ability to go from 100% ethanol to 0% without resetting anything. The reality though is that this is one press of a button over the steering wheel controls. It really isn't a big deal and if you forget to do it, no your motor isn't going to explode. You will CEL and misfire though.

I see benefit to both and obviously the sensor serves a purpose and is closer to the correct/ideal solution. That being said, JB4 is putting down big numbers and has the added benefit of a Cobb and for 100% E85 use.
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      11-14-2012, 01:50 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Especially when you consider that my clutch was slipping on the jb4 dyno. I'm truly very happy and it was cheaper.
Just a question, but could it be possible you were hitting the 34% fuel trim limit on the procede 50/50 causing it almost to sound like a lean misfire? This was happening to me before I got the procede flash, I thought it was a misfire, but in reality I was just running out of fuel. Not sure if this is your case or not, but I just wanted to ask to see if that might have been a possibility.

Regardless nice numbers! get that new clutch I'm going to need a new one too, 100% e85 is too much fun!
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      11-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Two things to consider:

1. You do not need anything other than the JB4 G5 up to 50% mixes. The benefit past 50% is minimal performance wise (about 10hp more MAYBE) but it will allow you to use only one pump obviously.

2. The Cobb, if you decided to flash with BMS flash also, has significant resale value. Its not like you lose the money on the flash. Don't forget the Cobb is an entire tuning solution in itself which you can update with free downloads.

The main benefit left for the Proceed is the ability to go from 100% ethanol to 0% without resetting anything. The reality though is that this is one press of a button over the steering wheel controls. It really isn't a big deal and if you forget to do it, no your motor isn't going to explode. You will CEL and misfire though.

I see benefit to both and obviously the sensor serves a purpose and is closer to the correct/ideal solution. That being said, JB4 is putting down big numbers and has the added benefit of a Cobb and for 100% E85 use.
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
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      11-14-2012, 02:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel
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      11-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #61
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Quote:
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You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel
and probably an upgraded LPFP.
This is with E50 , see after 6k just leans out, lpfp pressure drops like 20 psi and trims shoot up to max, around 450 whp i think:
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      11-14-2012, 02:16 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel

Exactly, you would need to log first. I was maxing fuel trims at 30% E85 with the JB4.
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      11-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
You only reset when you go from ethanol blend to no ethanol. If you are always refilling with ethanol and gas then you don't need to reset. So 90% of the time (if the E85 is close) you don't need to reset. The reset is accomplished over steering wheel controls and takes less than 5 seconds.

You may have a car that only runs 30% ethanol, but if that's the case then there really isn't much difference between proceed and jb4. Either one will then require you to buy something else like Cobb or flexfuel kit. I suspect you can run up to 50% though since most people can. You only need about 40% mix fyi to get full timing at ~18psi safety limit.

Whichever you choose though, I advise you start with just the tune. Then you can opt for Cobb or flexfuel if needed. Don't expect the gains to be anything near the 0-50% level when you go from 50-100% though. The bulk of the performance benefit is realize on tune only.
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      11-14-2012, 02:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guru_method
Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
I love everything about it especially the drivability going to the jb4. I even love the smell lol
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      11-14-2012, 03:44 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by guru_method
Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
I love everything about it especially the drivability going to the jb4. I even love the smell lol
+1 there's something about that smell that makes me want to start my car with my garage door closed just to get a whiff lol!
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      11-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #66
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OP, have you made any fuel system mods/upgrades? How are your cold starts on 100% E85?
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