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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > FIRST (well 2nd really...) AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION COOLER for E9x (pics & Diagrams)



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      11-15-2012, 05:47 PM   #23
orionredwing
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Nice! Looking forward to hearing how it performs on track.
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      11-15-2012, 05:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ajm8127 View Post
Your estimations for the ATF temp exiting the stock cooler make sense when you consider they correspond with the 108C and 95C temps of two of the operating modes for the cooling system. I have noticed 108C temps in stop and go driving, and around 95C temps in normal driving with my driving style, which is on the slightly more aggressive side. This is the temperature of the water exiting the head. Of course the temp of the water entering the water to oil heat exchanger will be lower because it has just passed through the radiator, but you can't expect the heat exchanger to bring the ATF temp all the way down to match in inlet temp of the water. That is unreasonable.

I also would not expect your oil or water temps to change with your setup because you are cooling the ATF after the stock heat exchanger, so the same amount of heat is being transferred to the water as before. The only difference is the AFT returning to the transmission is now cooler. However, if you are putting cooler fluid into the transmission, the fluid coming out should be a little cooler as well, which may translate into slightly cooler water temps. Time will tell.

I am curious to see what happens at the track with your setup. Obviously your ATF temps will be lower. You said in the other thread that you've never had a problem with limp mode, and I wouldn't expect you to this time especially considering it is November, and ambient temps, and more importantly, track temps, will be lower than in July during a sunny day.

Component protection starts at 117C (234F) so as long as your water temp at the heat outlet is below that, you should be fine. After this the engine output is reduced, which is not what you want at the track.

Regardless, have fun.
Yes I agree with much of what you said. I think this will help at the track to keep having smooth transmission changes and really is more of a reliability mod than anything else. It will likely do little to none in the way of perfromance. The one thing I want to point out is that 117C is 242 F, not 234F. The highest water temp I have seen is 231F at the track. I did notice that it spiked from 217-231 in a matter of seconds so I did back off a bit when I saw that occur even though I had another 8 F to go before limp mode. I have seen limp mode at the track but never related to water or oil temps. I did one time have a limp mode I think related to traction control but I did not have access to a code reader so not certain.
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      11-15-2012, 05:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by enrita View Post
ok thanks how much oil did you need to add in the trans?
Minimal amount extra is needed. I had recently gotten the ATF flushed/changed at the dealer and when they did it they overfilled it. So when Frank @ PSI went to add ATF he saw it was already overfilled after he bled the system.
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      11-15-2012, 06:00 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
I wonder if any of the higher torque guys have any type of AT tranny cooler and if so, do they still get the tranny probs..
No one has an ATF cooler. This is the first of its kind except for one that AR Design made for one forum member when they installed their radiator to his E9x AT. They no longer offer the radiator for sale and never made another ATF cooler. As far as high torque, what do you consider high torque? I am FBO with Procede 2.5 but have yet to test it with that tune as I wanted to get some stock data first. I will reinstall the tune soon and get more data for comparison. No one with a single turbo has one yet but I am sure someone will do this soon.
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      11-15-2012, 06:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
No one has an ATF cooler. This is the first of its kind except for one that AR Design made for one forum member when they installed their radiator to his E9x AT. They no longer offer the radiator for sale and never made another ATF cooler. As far as high torque, what do you consider high torque? I am FBO with Procede 2.5 but have yet to test it with that tune as I wanted to get some stock data first. I will reinstall the tune soon and get more data for comparison. No one with a single turbo has one yet but I am sure someone will do this soon.
over 500wtq

either way this can only help, so as i live in Florida, ill be hitting Frank up for this mod
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      11-15-2012, 06:16 PM   #28
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      11-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
Frank@PSI

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Frank is GREAT. He will help you do whatever you have in mind. However, he would have preferred a smaller cooler like a Setrab core that is about 1/2 the size. I insisted on the largest one that would fit because of my research. I know this made it difficult for him to install but I am glad I stuck to my guns. This data to me shows that the bigger cooler is absolutely necessary. So I would go with the biggest one that will fit in whatever hole you decide to put it in.

I just got the new Molex connector in the mail today. I will plan to solder & install it soon to get some data on the inlet temps.
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      11-16-2012, 01:37 AM   #30
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      11-16-2012, 05:02 AM   #31
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      11-16-2012, 08:10 AM   #32
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Looks great!!

I know this is petty, so ban me from your thread if you're rofl BUT I think it would've been better if you painted the cooler black before installing it. It sort of sticks out. no?
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      11-16-2012, 11:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
Yes I agree with much of what you said. I think this will help at the track to keep having smooth transmission changes and really is more of a reliability mod than anything else. It will likely do little to none in the way of perfromance. The one thing I want to point out is that 117C is 242 F, not 234F. The highest water temp I have seen is 231F at the track. I did notice that it spiked from 217-231 in a matter of seconds so I did back off a bit when I saw that occur even though I had another 8 F to go before limp mode. I have seen limp mode at the track but never related to water or oil temps. I did one time have a limp mode I think related to traction control but I did not have access to a code reader so not certain.
You are correct. I had the wrong combination of multiplying by 9/5 and adding 32 when I did that conversion.

Am still curious about how putting the axillary oil to air cooler before or after the stock heat exchanger would effect not only ATF temps, but water temps as well. From the beginning of this conversation about ATF cooling, I have been interested not just about ATF temps, but also how the ATF temps influence the water temps. To me, if you could see a drop in water temps for an increase in ATF temps (but still an overall drop in ATF temps compared to the stock setup) that would be a win.

I am very much looking forward to your temperature data.
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      11-17-2012, 12:36 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by eli_335i View Post
Looks great!!

I know this is petty, so ban me from your thread if you're rofl BUT I think it would've been better if you painted the cooler black before installing it. It sort of sticks out. no?
I actually ordered the black larger one 70274 first but that one did NOT fit as I mentioned. Then we were pressed for time to get it done for me to make it to Sebring so I ordered the next smaller one 70272...you would assume it was black too as did I since it was nearly the same model number. But in fact the 70266 is black. Same cooler just black. So if I had to do again,...yes I would want black,...the 70266. Actually the silver was also more expensive.

Last edited by N54_Fan; 11-17-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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      11-17-2012, 12:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ajm8127 View Post
You are correct. I had the wrong combination of multiplying by 9/5 and adding 32 when I did that conversion.

Am still curious about how putting the axillary oil to air cooler before or after the stock heat exchanger would effect not only ATF temps, but water temps as well. From the beginning of this conversation about ATF cooling, I have been interested not just about ATF temps, but also how the ATF temps influence the water temps. To me, if you could see a drop in water temps for an increase in ATF temps (but still an overall drop in ATF temps compared to the stock setup) that would be a win.

I am very much looking forward to your temperature data.
I agree with what you say and I when designing this I initially contemplated doing it before the heat exchanger for that reason. However, I figured 3 things,..1) Someone will eventually make a AT radiator that would help in the future 2) I really have not had water temp issue with my upgraded fan (850W) and using 85% distilled water and 15% coolant with 2 bottles Water Wetter. 3) There is sufficient data that proves that the Transmission Cooler placement AFTER te heat exchanger and radiator is about 5-6% more efficient than before. I forgot where I read the data but it is out there. That last piece of info convinced me to do it after the exchanger. Besides everyone else on the Corvette Forums do it that way. So why try to reinvent the wheel? It works for them so it should work for us.

I have a busy weekend preparing the house and all the "honey do list" thing with family coming for Thankgiving. So, I may be a little pressed for time in getting the new Molex connector hooked up to get INLET temps but I will try.

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      11-19-2012, 01:49 PM   #36
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update
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      11-19-2012, 03:12 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
I agree with what you say and I when designing this I initially contemplated doing it before the heat exchanger for that reason. However, I figured 3 things,..1) Someone will eventually make a AT radiator that would help in the future 2) I really have not had water temp issue with my upgraded fan (850W) and using 85% distilled water and 15% coolant with 2 bottles Water Wetter. 3) There is sufficient data that proves that the Transmission Cooler placement AFTER te heat exchanger and radiator is about 5-6% more efficient than before. I forgot where I read the data but it is out there. That last piece of info convinced me to do it after the exchanger. Besides everyone else on the Corvette Forums do it that way. So why try to reinvent the wheel? It works for them so it should work for us.

I have a busy weekend preparing the house and all the "honey do list" thing with family coming for Thankgiving. So, I may be a little pressed for time in getting the new Molex connector hooked up to get INLET temps but I will try.

N54_Fan
I do remember our conversation from before and I do recall you not having water temp issues. I completely agree that if you have no issues with your coolant temps (not just no limp mode, but never over 117C) then the only point of the transmission cooler is to cool the transmission fluid. Reducing the thermal load on the engine coolant system is a moot point.

I am just the curious type, and always look at things from multiple angles. It would be interesting to have data to compare placing the axillary cooler before and after the stock cooler and how each layout influenced the temperature of the ATF and of the engine coolant. A lot of AT guys have limp mode problems and that is why I am so curious. Are the limp problems caused by not having a portion of the radiator available for engine cooling? Are they caused by an increase in thermal load due to heat being transferred from the ATF to the coolant? Is it a combination?

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious.

I don't expect you to spend your time reconfiguring your system and doing testing, but this seems like an appropriate thread to discuss these issues.

Do you know the freezing point of the 15% antifreeze mixture you use?
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      11-28-2012, 04:30 PM   #38
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update?
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      11-29-2012, 04:54 AM   #39
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Would a machined finned tranny pan help as well with some cooling?

Seems to be popular amongst other platforms for tranny and diff cooling.
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      11-30-2012, 12:51 PM   #40
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Would a machined finned tranny pan help as well with some cooling?

Seems to be popular amongst other platforms for tranny and diff cooling.
I can't imagine it would hurt. Aluminum conducts heat around 400 times better than plastic. However, if I recall correctly, there is a piece of plastic covering the transmission up. It might need to be removed to allow adequate airflow to a finned aluminum trans pan.

How much does something like that cost? Large pieces of machined billet aluminum are so sexy.
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      12-28-2012, 08:17 PM   #41
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Wow great work here coming up with a cooling solution for us AT guys!...Im considering going down a similar path with my e92. Could you share a parts list you used for the hoses, & fittings ? Also curious if you were able to plumb the AT oil lines directly into the T-stat and AT cooler? ...any special fabrication other than the brackets to get the lines all connected?
Many thanks
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      09-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #42
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Any updates????
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      02-18-2014, 01:21 PM   #43
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cooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
I agree with what you say and I when designing this I initially contemplated doing it before the heat exchanger for that reason. However, I figured 3 things,..1) Someone will eventually make a AT radiator that would help in the future 2) I really have not had water temp issue with my upgraded fan (850W) and using 85% distilled water and 15% coolant with 2 bottles Water Wetter. 3) There is sufficient data that proves that the Transmission Cooler placement AFTER te heat exchanger and radiator is about 5-6% more efficient than before. I forgot where I read the data but it is out there. That last piece of info convinced me to do it after the exchanger. Besides everyone else on the Corvette Forums do it that way. So why try to reinvent the wheel? It works for them so it should work for us.

I have a busy weekend preparing the house and all the "honey do list" thing with family coming for Thankgiving. So, I may be a little pressed for time in getting the new Molex connector hooked up to get INLET temps but I will try.

N54_Fan
Any updates??
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      03-04-2014, 09:11 AM   #44
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+1 for updates
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