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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > 100 octane + stock tune?



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      11-19-2012, 11:00 PM   #1
SF Space Grey
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100 octane + stock tune?

After searching the forum, I've seen people on both sides of this issue.

Does anyone actually know for sure whether 100 octane gas yields additional power from the N54 without an aftermarket tune?

Also, I assume that 100 octane is perfectly fine for the engine as long as it's unleaded, right? I've heard some people talk about it wearing out the spark plugs, clogging injectors, etc, but don't see how that could be if it's just a higher quality version of what I put in every week.
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      11-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #2
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Will give consistency if you're beating the hell out of your car. but not more.
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      11-19-2012, 11:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
Will give consistency if you're beating the hell out of your car. but not more.
Im sure the car would advance timing to some degree, but a waste of your money never the less.
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      11-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #4
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Waste of 100 octane gas & money. If you're gonna track, it makes more sense to blend a small amount of pump gas + 100 octane to get ~95 octane to avoid any timing/detonation concerns
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      11-20-2012, 12:05 AM   #5
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I don't think a stock tune will react to anything over 94/95 octane. You can mix 100 & 93 to get in that range.
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      11-20-2012, 12:13 AM   #6
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Mixing in 100 octane(or higher octane) isn't going to yield anymore power. Infact, you may make less. The higher the octane fuel the slower the flame front spreads meaning that timing must be advanced to maintain MBT. The DME will not automatically advance timing to account for this.
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      11-20-2012, 12:15 AM   #7
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probably get like 20 hp increase lol if straight 100 no 93.
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      11-20-2012, 12:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Mixing in 100 octane(or higher octane) isn't going to yield anymore power. Infact, you may make less. The higher the octane fuel the slower the flame front spreads meaning that timing must be advanced to maintain MBT. The DME will not automatically advance timing to account for this.
Defiantly not. This car ecu is defiantly advanced enough to yield more power with higher octane. Octane plays a huge role in power making. Our cars are smart enough to give more boost at high altitudes arent they? (doesnt jb+ make it think its at a higher elevation?) not a significant gain but you'll notice a difference between 100 octane and 93(91). It wont make it slower and will make more power. your car can make more power depending on the brand of super you put in it also.
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      11-20-2012, 12:25 AM   #9
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if there's 100 In my car I'll find the big ape that did it
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      11-20-2012, 12:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
Defiantly not. This car ecu is defiantly advanced enough to yield more power with higher octane. Octane plays a huge role in power making. Our cars are smart enough to give more boost at high altitudes arent they? (doesnt jb+ make it think its at a higher elevation?) not a significant gain but you'll notice a difference between 100 octane and 93(91). It wont make it slower and will make more power. your car can make more power depending on the brand of super you put in it also.
THE ECU WILL NOT ADVANCE TIMING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIGHER OCTANE. Timing advance will follow the ignition tables unless it makes corrections or it triggers a setpoint for a correction factor table(namely CATs.) That means that if you're having timing corrections and you mix in 100 octane then it will just clear up the corrections.
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      11-20-2012, 12:54 AM   #11
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It may or may not give you power, depending on how your car is running currently. If your car is running poor or less than optimal timing, then it will have more power comparitavely because it will allow the car to run its full timing curve.

If you are already running the full timing curve, then you will see no gains.

It will help consistency because you run less timing as the engine gets hot. Refer to above.
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      11-20-2012, 01:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
THE ECU WILL NOT ADVANCE TIMING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HIGHER OCTANE. Timing advance will follow the ignition tables unless it makes corrections or it triggers a setpoint for a correction factor table(namely CATs.) That means that if you're having timing corrections and you mix in 100 octane then it will just clear up the corrections.
So your saying that if i put 87 or 91 in my tank vs 100 ocatane. it would perform equal or worse?

Doesnt Europe take advantage of higher octane premium gas? (99 ron=94-95 octane)

And 91 octane users vs 93 octane users are equal also?

Last edited by idrift4wd; 11-20-2012 at 01:11 AM.
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      11-20-2012, 01:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
So your saying that if i put 87 or 91 in my tank vs 100 ocatane. it would perform equal or worse?
Not apples to apples.. doesn't work like that. Nice non-sequitur

And please tell me which brand of gas yields more power than others?
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      11-20-2012, 01:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post
So your saying that if i put 87 or 91 in my tank vs 100 ocatane. it would perform equal or worse?
It depends. If the car runs fine on 87 or 91(meaning no timing corrections) then going to 100 isn't going to help. More than likely on 87 you will have timing corrections so adding in some 100 will help to clear up timing corrections and in that instance it will make a little more power.
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      11-20-2012, 03:57 AM   #15
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Not apples to apples.. doesn't work like that. Nice non-sequitur

And please tell me which brand of gas yields more power than others?


Plus everyone recommends top tier brand. http://www.toptiergas.com/
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      11-20-2012, 05:40 AM   #16
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93 generates more power then 91 octane. Do a check of posted dyno runs of CA cars vs. high octane east coast states. Honda posted some stats on their V6 a few years ago & the spread was 10BHP. That being said the factory tune will not adapt to much over 94.
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      11-20-2012, 06:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Mixing in 100 octane(or higher octane) isn't going to yield anymore power. Infact, you may make less. The higher the octane fuel the slower the flame front spreads meaning that timing must be advanced to maintain MBT. The DME will not automatically advance timing to account for this.
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      11-20-2012, 07:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SF Space Grey View Post
whether 100 octane gas yields additional power from the N54 without an aftermarket tune?
No. You have the same boost, same timing, same air-fuel ratio and same fuel energy. Of course you will not gain anything.

Higher octane means higher resistance to knock which means you can increase the timing advance. Without this, you will not gain anything.
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      11-21-2012, 04:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrift4wd View Post


Plus everyone recommends top tier brand. http://www.toptiergas.com/
I'm not questioning top tier gas... I only use Shell V-power myself although even that is debate-able... But top tier is only thought to keep valves/engines cleaner... I don't think anyone has claimed top tier fuel has made more power than the others. So you have the wrong argument there.

Edit: just watched your full youtube video... still inconclusive... ranges are within standard testing deviation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
93 generates more power then 91 octane. Do a check of posted dyno runs of CA cars vs. high octane east coast states. Honda posted some stats on their V6 a few years ago & the spread was 10BHP. That being said the factory tune will not adapt to much over 94.
I'd have to agree, since this is a logical approach. Some seem to think 100 octane + = magic....

Last edited by WickedB; 11-21-2012 at 05:02 AM.
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      11-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #20
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The true story is the only benefit is consistency. The stock tune actually has a bit of ignition correction and timing reduction, especially when heat soaked. (also depends on gas quality, ambient temps, heat soak and other external factors).

100+ octane will reduce almost all instances of timing drop outs after back to back runs, but heat soaking of the intercooler and increase in IAT's is inevitable.

It isn't a power adder. It simply gains back any power that was lost from poor fuel quality.
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      11-21-2012, 01:00 PM   #21
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how do you not have a tune already?
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      11-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SF Space Grey View Post
After searching the forum, I've seen people on both sides of this issue.

Does anyone actually know for sure whether 100 octane gas yields additional power from the N54 without an aftermarket tune?

Also, I assume that 100 octane is perfectly fine for the engine as long as it's unleaded, right? I've heard some people talk about it wearing out the spark plugs, clogging injectors, etc, but don't see how that could be if it's just a higher quality version of what I put in every week.
1) Performance Consistancy
2) Reduces Engine Knock
3) Reduces the chance of timing being pulled due to knock
4) Runs cooler

So by all this it means you will gain 2-3 mph in a 1/4 run

Being tuned for it yields the same results above but in addition with "significantly" more power "to the wheels"

If you are not tuned for it then it will optimize or bring out your car "best" performance at its current level.
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