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      05-29-2012, 06:59 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Well like I said before, I think you will be limited with the enclosure size by the physical space available in the corner of the trunk. If you try to squeeze a 12W6 into a smaller size enclosure than it was designed for, it'll have a very peaky response and not much authority on the low end, but a 10W6 in the right enclosure will dig pretty deep and have a much smoother response. My gut would tell me to use a 12W6 if you can get 1 cu ft or more, and use the 10W6 if it is less than 1 cu ft.
ok that makes sense. i definately want to try and get close to optimum volume recommended.

i want to make my own fiberglass/mdf corner enclosure, so what would u guys say is the best way of measuring up the dimensions for the enclosure? if it was a straight forward box it would be pretty simple, but the trunk corner has various countours which makes it more complex to calculate and measure 1.35 cu ft
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      05-29-2012, 07:18 PM   #46
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It's pretty easy to guesstimate it. "Build" the front of the box out of some cardboard, then use packing peanuts to fill the void between the front of the box and the trunk liner. Once that area is full (don't compress it, just dump it in there), transfer the peanuts to a cardboard box of known dimensions. Make sure the peanuts are level in the box, then measure the approximate volume that the peanuts take up in the box.

Easy.

Some people prefer to measure the peanuts out first, then fill, but I think that's a backwards way of going. I want to know how much space I have, then pick a subwoofer for that space - not the other way around.
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      05-29-2012, 07:38 PM   #47
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use as much space as possible, meaning glass to every contour on the side of the trunk. However, you'll also want to use as much MDF as possible, since it is going to be stronger than the glass.

Once you have your back, then stretch fleece, or speaker grill cloth (I prefer fleece, since it gives you a stronger base) then back fill with layer upon layer of glass matte. Then make a mixture of kitty hair (bondo, laminating resin, hardener and chopped matte) and flow the inside of the box with it. This will assure a completely covered interior giving you a better seal, and thicker walls. You will need to strengthen from the inside rather than the outside, since you don't want to change the shape of the outside of the enclosure.

At this point you will measure internal displacement.
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      05-30-2012, 12:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcurley55 View Post
It's pretty easy to guesstimate it. "Build" the front of the box out of some cardboard, then use packing peanuts to fill the void between the front of the box and the trunk liner. Once that area is full (don't compress it, just dump it in there), transfer the peanuts to a cardboard box of known dimensions. Make sure the peanuts are level in the box, then measure the approximate volume that the peanuts take up in the box.

Easy.

Some people prefer to measure the peanuts out first, then fill, but I think that's a backwards way of going. I want to know how much space I have, then pick a subwoofer for that space - not the other way around.
can't believe i didnt think of that before. thanks
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      05-30-2012, 12:31 PM   #49
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Wow its not as simple as i thought But im sure i will enjoy trying to make this!

I'm no fiberglass expert so there are a few things i didnt understand:

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use as much space as possible, meaning glass to every contour on the side of the trunk. However, you'll also want to use as much MDF as possible, since it is going to be stronger than the glass.
My understanding is that glass or glass matte is basically fiberglass resin and fiberglass cloths/mats which are just applied in layers (a bit like the link i posted earlier to a different DIY thread)

Once you have your back, then stretch fleece, or speaker grill cloth (I prefer fleece, since it gives you a stronger base)
By back, you mean the fiberglass shape thats just been made (i.e the preliminary shape behind the mdf baffle?) Whats the fleece for? and where do i strech it to? This fleece step was missed out on that DIY thread so i can't picture it (by the way i was planning to have an mdf base as well as the baffle)

then back fill with layer upon layer of glass matte.
Im assuming that this is just applying fiberglass resin with fiberglass cloths/mats in layers from the inside

Then make a mixture of kitty hair (bondo, laminating resin, hardener and chopped matte) and flow the inside of the box with it. This will assure a completely covered interior giving you a better seal, and thicker walls. You will need to strengthen from the inside rather than the outside, since you don't want to change the shape of the outside of the enclosure.

Understood that Can i use any glassfibre filler or is kitty hair, like this: http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=38 an absolute must? Id like to get something pre mixed, as i dont trust myself mixing various chemicals

At this point you will measure internal displacement.

So what im thinking is to initially measure slightly more than optimum, so i can hopefully get close to the optimum after strengthening
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      05-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #50
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I'm not Jay, but here are my comments:

My understanding is that glass or glass matte is basically fiberglass resin and fiberglass cloths/mats which are just applied in layers (a bit like the link i posted earlier to a different DIY thread)

"Fiberglass" is the combination of a type of cloth/mat and resin. Essentially, you "layup" the fiberglass by mixing a batch of resin, then impregnating the cloth/mat with the resin and letting it dry. In the DIY you posted, the guy laid the cloth down first, then added the resin. I prefer to precut my cloth/mat into small pieces, then add resin, then place. I also prefer to use knytex for large areas.

By back, you mean the fiberglass shape thats just been made (i.e the preliminary shape behind the mdf baffle?) Whats the fleece for? and where do i strech it to? This fleece step was missed out on that DIY thread so i can't picture it (by the way i was planning to have an mdf base as well as the baffle)

Yes - the back is typically constructed first, then trimmed to the correct shape. Then you build the baffle. The baffle can be just a ring for the subwoofer or it can be a larger panel like in your example. The baffle is then mounted to the back piece. A gap between the two typically exists. To bridge that gap, you stretch mold cloth (fleece or another material) between the back and the baffle and glue/staple it in place. Then you impregnate that with resin and let it harden. Now you have a firm surface to add fiberglass to and complete the enclosure.

Im assuming that this is just applying fiberglass resin with fiberglass cloths/mats in layers from the inside

This can be done from the inside or the outside depending on how you plan the project. If you stretch the mold fabric correctly, you should have a nice finished shape, so if you apply fiberglass from the inside of the box, you will (theoretically) have to spend less time sanding the outside of the box prior to covering.

Understood that Can i use any glassfibre filler or is kitty hair, like this: http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=38 an absolute must?

It's an easier way to seal. You can actually just use a mixture of bondo, resin, and cabosil or chopped strands to make it work. I like to use just resin and cabosil to make a material of milk-shake like consistency and pour that into the box.

Id like to get something pre mixed, as i dont trust myself mixing various chemicals

Everything that you use for this project will require some kind of mixing of chemicals. Resin, plastic body filler, etc. are 2-part products. They all include a hardener (either liquid or paste) that you mix together. The hardener does just that - hardens it within a specific working time. Just follow the instructions on the side of the can and do not mix in large batches - the products will kick faster than you think and if you mix too much, you will be left with a lot of wasted materials.

So what im thinking is to initially measure slightly more than optimum, so i can hopefully get close to the optimum after strengthening

I would definitely measure first, then build. No sense in building if you don't have enough room.

As I'm sure you can gather, there is more than one way to do this kind of a project and everyone does it a little differently. That's not to say one way is wrong, just different.
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      05-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #51
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thanks, all understood

it is more complex than i initially thought, but it certainly sounds like fun
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      06-23-2012, 09:30 PM   #52
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would fibreglass and polyester resin be strong enough, or would using kevlar and epoxy resin be better?

currently i am looking at chopped strand mats at a density of 450g/m and polyester resins. how many metres sq of fibreglass and kilos of resin would i need approximately?
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      06-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #53
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bump...
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      11-24-2012, 01:40 AM   #54
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Taibanl has also been posting in a thread in which I was posting a lot of questions.

One question I had was a concern that the XD600/6 wouldn't put out enough power for the Morel Dotech Ovation 4ís because the speakers call for 100RMS at 4ohms, and the Amp could only produce 75rms at 4ohms... I plan on using the same speakers as you, (minus the center channel)

He is also suggesting that the SWS-8Xi - Earthquake subs that I'd like to use (one under each seat) would be sufficiently driven off of 75watts rms as well though they call for 150 watts RMS @ 4ohms

He definitely seems knowledgable based on a lot of posts of his that I have searched for and read, so I'm not questioning his judgement...

I'm curious though from your personal experience, did the speakers sound powerful? I like loud music, and thats one of my biggest gripes about my car's HiFi System. I'm not an audiophile and I dont need perfection, but I'd like to be able to crank it up without much (if any) distortion... did they adequately power the speakers in your opinion?

Also, the sub drivers you were using were similiar in spec to the SWS-8Xi - Earthquake subs that I want to use. Can I just have your opinion on the amp's power to adequately drive the speakers/subs you were running?
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      11-24-2012, 12:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbai View Post
Taibanl has also been posting in a thread in which I was posting a lot of questions.

One question I had was a concern that the XD600/6 wouldn't put out enough power for the Morel Dotech Ovation 4ís because the speakers call for 100RMS at 4ohms, and the Amp could only produce 75rms at 4ohms... I plan on using the same speakers as you, (minus the center channel)

He is also suggesting that the SWS-8Xi - Earthquake subs that I'd like to use (one under each seat) would be sufficiently driven off of 75watts rms as well though they call for 150 watts RMS @ 4ohms

He definitely seems knowledgable based on a lot of posts of his that I have searched for and read, so I'm not questioning his judgement...

I'm curious though from your personal experience, did the speakers sound powerful? I like loud music, and thats one of my biggest gripes about my car's HiFi System. I'm not an audiophile and I dont need perfection, but I'd like to be able to crank it up without much (if any) distortion... did they adequately power the speakers in your opinion?

Also, the sub drivers you were using were similiar in spec to the SWS-8Xi - Earthquake subs that I want to use. Can I just have your opinion on the amp's power to adequately drive the speakers/subs you were running?
For the Morels the XD had more than enough power for loud undistorted music. When I first installed this and listened at high volumes i used to get headaches at night. But this is just my experience with my ears, the amount you want to hear may be different. From what you are saying you may be happier getting a 4 x 150W amp. The Morels will be fine with 150w.

For the Jehnerts i did have to have a slightly higher gain than the Morels to balance the sound better. I haven't heard the Jehnerts with other amps (will be fitting a Litebox soon) but they sounded really good with the XD. The Earthquakes are different speakers to the Jehnerts, the play lower so its a good idea to give them more power. However i would advise you to look at other options for your underseats if you haven't already.
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      11-24-2012, 02:56 PM   #56
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Thanks bud, I actually think that I'll be fine with the 600/6... if its loud enough for a headache its loud enough for me.

I need just a little more than stock at max to be happy. The problem is stock at max is heavily distorted, so as long as its at least as loud as that but clearer... I think I'll be happy.

If you'd like to pay it forward with all the help you've received and help me out I'd appreciate any advice you can give... the setup I believe I've settled on is at the bottom of this thread if you have any further advice for me. Still have a few small questions (in red)

Thanks again for a quick reply/the info!

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=773709
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      11-24-2012, 08:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
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I need just a little more than stock at max to be happy. The problem is stock at max is heavily distorted, so as long as its at least as loud as that but clearer... I think I'll be happy.
If thats the case then you've got nothing to worry about. I too worried whether it was going to be enough but it was.

Quote:
If you'd like to pay it forward with all the help you've received and help me out I'd appreciate any advice you can give... the setup I believe I've settled on is at the bottom of this thread if you have any further advice for me. Still have a few small questions (in red)
You're going for an XD and Morels which have been used by a lot of people who have been happy, including myself, so that part is good. Only thing im thinking is your choice of underseats. I would get a different driver than the SWS, something that can actually play midbass properly. Then, in the future, get a sub.
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      11-24-2012, 09:09 PM   #58
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If thats the case then you've got nothing to worry about. I too worried whether it was going to be enough but it was.



You're going for an XD and Morels which have been used by a lot of people who have been happy, including myself, so that part is good. Only thing im thinking is your choice of underseats. I would get a different driver than the SWS, something that can actually play midbass properly. Then, in the future, get a sub.
My only concern there is to do that I'd have to add another amp, which adds more $$ needed in the budget. Sub, enclosure. etc...

I think doing it this way will be enough all around for me. I dont need neigborhood shaking bass but if I went with Jehnert Speakers and I'd have a lot of mid bass and nothing on the very low end. For my personal tastes, I think I prefer to have the low end even in the absence of mid bass for now. I think this is the 'stage 1' for me.

Thanks for the suggestions though I'll keep it in mind
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      11-25-2012, 06:01 AM   #59
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Thats fair enough if thats the case. However i would recommend looking at a Gladen woofer for your underseats. The link http://www.gladen.com/compo_coax.html#one scroll down to the second last one.

I heard the set a few weeks ago in another members car and the woofers sounded amazing. Played alot lower than my jehnerts, and most people would think there's a sub in the car. They also sounded better than Earthquakes. It sounds like you want this so try and find out if you can just get the 8" woofer and crossover on its own.
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      11-25-2012, 09:42 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbai View Post
My only concern there is to do that I'd have to add another amp, which adds more $$ needed in the budget. Sub, enclosure. etc...

I think doing it this way will be enough all around for me. I dont need neigborhood shaking bass but if I went with Jehnert Speakers and I'd have a lot of mid bass and nothing on the very low end. For my personal tastes, I think I prefer to have the low end even in the absence of mid bass for now. I think this is the 'stage 1' for me.

Thanks for the suggestions though I'll keep it in mind
Starbai,
My preference was similar to yours and I went for SWS-8. No regrets. SWS-8 can play as low as 40Hz and that is decent enough.

In addition to that, it is not enough to shake your neighbours windows, but enough to shake lower part your front seats.
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      11-25-2012, 10:52 AM   #61
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Quote:
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Thats fair enough if thats the case. However i would recommend looking at a Gladen woofer for your underseats. The link http://www.gladen.com/compo_coax.html#one scroll down to the second last one.

I heard the set a few weeks ago in another members car and the woofers sounded amazing. Played alot lower than my jehnerts, and most people would think there's a sub in the car. They also sounded better than Earthquakes. It sounds like you want this so try and find out if you can just get the 8" woofer and crossover on its own.
Thanks for the suggestion on the Gladen speakers... I hadn't heard that name yet through all my searches. I'll look through the specs/price and see if its something I'd like to take a chance on.

Edit, so looking at them its a 3 way set. I'd use the 8"s under seat, 4's and tweeters in the door? the 4 Mid ranges... would they be like mid-ranges under the seat? Or would they be mids like traditional mids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Starbai,
My preference was similar to yours and I went for SWS-8. No regrets. SWS-8 can play as low as 40Hz and that is decent enough.

In addition to that, it is not enough to shake your neighbours windows, but enough to shake lower part your front seats.
Glad to hear it! Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for at the end of the day.

Mob 17, will still take a look at the Gladen's before I pull the trigger on buying all this stuff. Still haven't heard from Technic yet, and I insist on having that harness in hand before buying anything else as I dont wanna have all my components and no way to get it in the car if Technic is busy/back ordered.

Thanks again fellas, everyone so far has been a big help way to pay it forward and once I'm done I'll be happy to share the knowledge I'm getting as well...
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      11-25-2012, 11:22 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starbai View Post
Thanks for the suggestion on the Gladen speakers... I hadn't heard that name yet through all my searches. I'll look through the specs/price and see if its something I'd like to take a chance on.

Edit, so looking at them its a 3 way set. I'd use the 8"s under seat, 4's and tweeters in the door? the 4 Mid ranges... would they be like mid-ranges under the seat? Or would they be mids like traditional mids?



Glad to hear it! Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for at the end of the day.

Mob 17, will still take a look at the Gladen's before I pull the trigger on buying all this stuff. Still haven't heard from Technic yet, and I insist on having that harness in hand before buying anything else as I dont wanna have all my components and no way to get it in the car if Technic is busy/back ordered.

Thanks again fellas, everyone so far has been a big help way to pay it forward and once I'm done I'll be happy to share the knowledge I'm getting as well...
Yeah they are a 3 way set, completely plug and play with adaptors. Tweeters in the OEM tweeter frame, midrange in the stock position. You might be able to get the woofers only.

In my opinion sub bass wise they sounded better than the Earthquakes i heard. A lot deeper and lower. For midbass im not sure how they perform (yes i did say they can play midbass but i didnt hear them long enough to know for sure)
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