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      11-26-2012, 12:01 PM   #45
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Thanks! I guess that's what I will be doing all day today since there is not much to do at work lol.
There are two COBB vs jb4 threads right now at the top. I would pm you but I have been removed from most privileges.
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      11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #46
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I've noticed that most, if not majority people on this thread are vouching for COBB tuning over JB4 tuning. Besides easy installation/flash, may I ask why you have chosen COBB tuning?
1. After installing/flash COBB tuning, what was your numbers? Specifically on a 335is?
2. How are the COBB maps compared to JB4 maps? (User experience)

I am trying to decide if I should go with COBB or JB4 and this will help me decide...

Thanks!

You can Google & read for yourself, but the piggys & flash function in 2 completely different ways (specific example: target boost differently). There won't be any power differences with an 335is, 1M or "normal" 135/335, so you can search the forum for any dyno comparisons of the COBB & JB4.

My greatest recommendation would be for you to see if there are any people near you that have the tunes installed on their car (JB4/COBB, similar mods to what you might do) and ask if you could go for a ride. Power isn't everything & I can promise you if the drivability is poor that you'll want to shoot yourself anytime you're not going WOT.

I will stand behind the COBB & point out that there is a reason why Terry (BMS) offers specific COBB Maps that work with the JB4 when people start running FBO/E85/Upgraded Turbos on their N54s. While the piggys can manage meth & hijack the gauges, they cannot alter fueling tables or engine timing (which IMO is much more important).

To each's own though, I should be posting some dynos & my PTF review by the end of the week after I hit the dyno tomorrow, so keep your eyes open
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      11-26-2012, 12:08 PM   #47
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You can Google & read for yourself, but the piggys & flash function in 2 completely different ways (specific example: target boost differently). There won't be any power differences with an 335is, 1M or "normal" 135/335, so you can search the forum for any dyno comparisons of the COBB & JB4.

My greatest recommendation would be for you to see if there are any people near you that have the tunes installed on their car (JB4/COBB, similar mods to what you might do) and ask if you could go for a ride. Power isn't everything & I can promise you if the drivability is poor that you'll want to shoot yourself anytime you're not going WOT.

I will stand behind the COBB & point out that there is a reason why Terry (BMS) offers specific COBB Maps that work with the JB4 when people start running FBO/E85/Upgraded Turbos on their N54s. While the piggys can manage meth & hijack the gauges, they cannot alter fueling tables or engine timing (which IMO is much more important).

To each's own though, I should be posting some dynos & my PTF review by the end of the week after I hit the dyno tomorrow, so keep your eyes open
Thank you! +1 and like button!

I will keep my eyes open for this review! Keep us posted! ^^
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      11-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #48
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To each's own though, I should be posting some dynos & my PTF review by the end of the week after I hit the dyno tomorrow, so keep your eyes open
sweet cant wait. E50?
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      11-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #49
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sweet cant wait. E50?
Haha not that aggressive, 6 gal of E85 to a full tank of 93. So right around E40
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      11-26-2012, 02:29 PM   #50
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Haha not that aggressive, 6 gal of E85 to a full tank of 93. So right around E40
Where are you going for your dyno?

i should have a jb4 soon, but would really like to dyno my jb3. Ill be running some ethanol also.
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      11-26-2012, 03:33 PM   #51
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Where are you going for your dyno?

i should have a jb4 soon, but would really like to dyno my jb3. Ill be running some ethanol also.
I'm going to be going to Undercover Performance (3100 Route 73 North, Maple Shade, NJ 08052). Here's their website: http://www.undercoverperformance.com/. They work specifically with ProEFI & are more well known very HIGH HP setups & a common name in the Supra/GTR community, but are actually cooking up something for the N54 platform

Here are some pics of Undercover's shop
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      11-26-2012, 03:42 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
You can Google & read for yourself, but the piggys & flash function in 2 completely different ways (specific example: target boost differently). There won't be any power differences with an 335is, 1M or "normal" 135/335, so you can search the forum for any dyno comparisons of the COBB & JB4.

My greatest recommendation would be for you to see if there are any people near you that have the tunes installed on their car (JB4/COBB, similar mods to what you might do) and ask if you could go for a ride. Power isn't everything & I can promise you if the drivability is poor that you'll want to shoot yourself anytime you're not going WOT.

I will stand behind the COBB & point out that there is a reason why Terry (BMS) offers specific COBB Maps that work with the JB4 when people start running FBO/E85/Upgraded Turbos on their N54s. While the piggys can manage meth & hijack the gauges, they cannot alter fueling tables or engine timing (which IMO is much more important).

To each's own though, I should be posting some dynos & my PTF review by the end of the week after I hit the dyno tomorrow, so keep your eyes open
Great post. I agree 100% that power is great but the drivability of the tune makes the difference night and day, and everyone has a different preference and sensitivity on how the drivability should be.

We used to say back in the tune war days, try them all and see which you will like.
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      11-26-2012, 04:28 PM   #53
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If you have to choose just one, a piggyback will net you more power out of the gate with less work since autotuning has gotten very good. With the piggies you have to rely on conservative maps or do a remap every time you get a new mod. Eventually for FBO+ and E85 you will want a flash and the piggy to get the most out of your car. So my advice is to get a JB4/Proceed first for autotuning and then stack a flash if you want to later. There are separate benefits to both and no disadvantage to running both of them. So in a cost unlimited world you would have both. I personally only have a JB4, but plan to get a flash eventually if I want to go past 50% E85.
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      11-26-2012, 05:21 PM   #54
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OP, that's what I did (Cobb), and I love it. Exact same reasons as you, and no regrets. Car feels fantastic.

Get the flash, and have fun and be safe.

This platform has graduated past the piggyback and into flash land. Like other platforms, the piggy folks will die hard, but no matter. Not sure why the fanboys bother. The OP specifically said he didn't want to screw around under the hood.
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      11-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #55
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This platform has graduated past the piggyback and into flash land. Like other platforms, the piggy folks will die hard, but no matter. Not sure why the fanboys bother. The OP specifically said he didn't want to screw around under the hood.
I didn't realize he said he didn't want to do anything under the hood. In that case, Cobb is the only good option and I highly recommend it.

About graduating from piggybacks, I disagree, the flash and the piggy back bring something to the table. Pretty sure you're being a fanboi if you cant see/admit that. A piggyback is a better intro tune than flash due to the autotuning, gauge features, meth, etc. The flash tune shines at additional fueling, timing, and VANOS. Ideally you will have both unless you're poor or don't plan to go deep with power.
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      11-26-2012, 09:34 PM   #56
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I didn't realize he said he didn't want to do anything under the hood. In that case, Cobb is the only good option and I highly recommend it.

About graduating from piggybacks, I disagree, the flash and the piggy back bring something to the table. Pretty sure you're being a fanboi if you cant see/admit that. A piggyback is a better intro tune than flash due to the autotuning, gauge features, meth, etc. The flash tune shines at additional fueling, timing, and VANOS. Ideally you will have both unless you're poor or don't plan to go deep with power.
The piggys are losing their touch. Dzenno just set the N54-TT record on just a flash & ProEFI, who does stuff like this

Is about to enter the N54 market. Piggys are great, but they have a lot of limitations with in-depth tuning that only flash (or standalones) can address properly
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      11-26-2012, 09:52 PM   #57
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FWIW, this platform pretty much has gone to flash based tuning. Vishnu and BMS are basically using their boxes as a boost controller/meth controller/NLS/WOTbox at this point.
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      11-26-2012, 10:51 PM   #58
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Like I was saying, they both have their benefits. You will want both to get the most out of the car. The piggy is still a better starter tune due to autotuning, nls, gauges, meth, cost, etc. The flash really excels at cleaning up fueling and the calculations the ecu is better at handling such as timing. Before large turbos or over 50% E85 you will typically see the piggy make more power with less drivability. Considering you can stack these two, I haven't seen a legit reason why it makes sense to force yourself into choosing one or the other. You really should have both.
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      11-27-2012, 12:12 AM   #59
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Like I was saying, they both have their benefits. You will want both to get the most out of the car. The piggy is still a better starter tune due to autotuning, nls, gauges, meth, cost, etc. The flash really excels at cleaning up fueling and the calculations the ecu is better at handling such as timing. Before large turbos or over 50% E85 you will typically see the piggy make more power with less drivability. Considering you can stack these two, I haven't seen a legit reason why it makes sense to force yourself into choosing one or the other. You really should have both.
Not only is unnecessary, but it's unwise to stack tunes. Why have something that one tune can completely do on its own? I will agree that a tune only car that a piggy will probably be more beneficial (lower initial investment, simply adding boost at that level); BUT the minute you start adding an FMIC or DPs, a flash tune is clearly the superior (and safer) tuning option.
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      11-27-2012, 02:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Like I was saying, they both have their benefits. You will want both to get the most out of the car. The piggy is still a better starter tune due to autotuning, nls, gauges, meth, cost, etc. The flash really excels at cleaning up fueling and the calculations the ecu is better at handling such as timing. Before large turbos or over 50% E85 you will typically see the piggy make more power with less drivability. Considering you can stack these two, I haven't seen a legit reason why it makes sense to force yourself into choosing one or the other. You really should have both.
Not only is unnecessary, but it's unwise to stack tunes. Why have something that one tune can completely do on its own? I will agree that a tune only car that a piggy will probably be more beneficial (lower initial investment, simply adding boost at that level); BUT the minute you start adding an FMIC or DPs, a flash tune is clearly the superior (and safer) tuning option.
Hey Benzy can you give me ur emaili got a couple questions for ya
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      11-27-2012, 11:06 AM   #61
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      11-28-2012, 09:37 PM   #62
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It's not that I'm lazy. I've experienced piggy backs before with my 3000GT VR-4. I ran Greddy E-Manage Blue with the a/f and timing tune. It was fine but if the temperature changed I had to get another tune since my car wouldn't adjust. During pulls, I had to keep an eye on my A/f's, EGTs, and Boost to make sure things were in working order. I did a lot of work myself except when it came to heavy duty stuff or wiring. I popped the motor just by screwing up one setting on the boost controller and it was enough to cause me to run lean and detonate I didn't catch it in time because first and second gears were so quick I didn't have to to glance at 5 gauges. Overall The car was a blast and ran mid 12s consistently. I replaced the motor and sold the car.

I don't want to go through similar tuning issues with the BMW. I like the way it drives stock. Ultimately, I would like more power but keep the stock drivability.
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      11-28-2012, 10:24 PM   #63
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It's not that I'm lazy. I've experienced piggy backs before with my 3000GT VR-4. I ran Greddy E-Manage Blue with the a/f and timing tune. It was fine but if the temperature changed I had to get another tune since my car wouldn't adjust. During pulls, I had to keep an eye on my A/f's, EGTs, and Boost to make sure things were in working order. I did a lot of work myself except when it came to heavy duty stuff or wiring. I popped the motor just by screwing up one setting on the boost controller and it was enough to cause me to run lean and detonate I didn't catch it in time because first and second gears were so quick I didn't have to to glance at 5 gauges. Overall The car was a blast and ran mid 12s consistently. I replaced the motor and sold the car.

I don't want to go through similar tuning issues with the BMW. I like the way it drives stock. Ultimately, I would like more power but keep the stock drivability.
The sophistication of the DME is so far advanced in comparison to the older JDM ECU's it's ridiculous. The DME allows the Piggy and Flash tunes to be alot easier than most other platforms. First off it tunes for AFR's not injector pulse widths using factory wideband O2's. The injectors for most peoples needs are big enough and never need upgraded. The knock sensing and other environmental (temps, IAT's etc) keep tunes from hurting anything. You would almost have to try to screw it up on purpose to blow anything up on this engine other than the turbo's and have seen very few engine failures on these sites aside from a few freak incidents and I don't think any of them were due to power levels or tuning problems. As for your experience with Greddy that's never a pleasant experience their products used to be good but their ease of use, instructions and customer service were always the worst. Which ever route you go either Piggy or Flash I don't think you'll regret it either way. I don't have any experience on the piggy's but I've heard that the JB4 can be a little easier to manage and it's a fact that BMS has the best customer service but you will find those few occasions of people having a bad experience with one of the tunes, then switching and saying how horrible the first one was and how great the second one is.
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      12-03-2012, 12:23 AM   #64
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stock 335i with intake mod

Guys, I'm new to the forum, so hi. Coming over from Mazda... just purchased my first BMW - and its a 2008 335i with 53k miles (picked it up for 19500 with convenience feature, nav, sport, etc).

So the power stock is amazing vs my mazda. However, I'm about to bust a nut to get more power and less hesitation when I step on the gas.

So I ordered a Cobb accessport (friggen expensive) and a AFE Magnum FORCE Elite Stage-2 Si PRO 5R Intake. (friggen expensive, but wanted a closed system vs open.. just looks better and seems like it would suck less hot air vs open (IMO).

So from those of you who have Cobb and possibly this intake - what map stage should I use and what should I expect?

Also, going to do the walnut cleaning this week and the oil gasket replaced - worth the money? Looking at about 700 for the service... I heard walnut blasting really made a difference... (well heard it from the guy wanting to sell it to me). Thanks in advance...
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      12-03-2012, 12:44 AM   #65
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Guys, I'm new to the forum, so hi. Coming over from Mazda... just purchased my first BMW - and its a 2008 335i with 53k miles (picked it up for 19500 with convenience feature, nav, sport, etc).

So the power stock is amazing vs my mazda. However, I'm about to bust a nut to get more power and less hesitation when I step on the gas.

So I ordered a Cobb accessport (friggen expensive) and a AFE Magnum FORCE Elite Stage-2 Si PRO 5R Intake. (friggen expensive, but wanted a closed system vs open.. just looks better and seems like it would suck less hot air vs open (IMO).

So from those of you who have Cobb and possibly this intake - what map stage should I use and what should I expect?

Also, going to do the walnut cleaning this week and the oil gasket replaced - worth the money? Looking at about 700 for the service... I heard walnut blasting really made a difference... (well heard it from the guy wanting to sell it to me). Thanks in advance...
Run Stage 1 Sport if you have 91 octane. Stage 1 Aggressive if you have 93 octane. Be sure to datalog to be sure everything is well.

Walnut blasting is definitely a smart thing to do with 50K+ miles.
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      12-03-2012, 12:52 AM   #66
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Run Stage 1 Sport if you have 91 octane. Stage 1 Aggressive if you have 93 octane. Be sure to datalog to be sure everything is well.

Walnut blasting is definitely a smart thing to do with 50K+ miles.
Thanks for the feedback... yeah we are 93 oct here in GA... so no problem there.. Glad to hear the feedback on the walnut blasting... funny thing is a lot of bmw shops either have no clue what I'm asking, or just don't do it... so I guess its actually hard to shop around for pricing...

What is the opinion of the intake? In your opinion, do you think it was a good choice? (vs the 2 cone open system). I also unplugged that exaust port cable in the back of the car to make it sound better. Assuming that won't do anything to HP - I am not ready to get a new muffler yet... I don't see the gains that are worth the 1000 plus dollars to do that...

So what HP and TQ do you think I should expect with what I have on the stage 1 agressive? What do you need to go to stage 2? I think this 335 has the intercooler because of the sport package... just not sure how good the injectors and coils are since I purchased used.. plugs were changed at 46000 miles by BMW dealer with previous owner.
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