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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Rematch: Cobb FBO 335i vs JB4 FBO 335i (Video Inside)



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      11-26-2012, 11:53 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by AU335i View Post
however, I ran my friend's JB4 335is (intakes, DP) on 14.5 psi and I was COBB Stg. 2+ (intakes, DP, FMIC) on 18.5 psi.... we were neck and neck... so boost doesn't seem to matter as much imo.
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Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
Very nice runs! I really enjoyed the videos!
I would like to see another re-match with JB4 running MAP7.
What exactly does protune do to COBB tuning?
This addresses both things I've quoted. When you buy a COBB AP, you basically download from COBB's website their OTS (Off-the-Shelf) generic maps that are kept intentionally very conservative as a safety precaution (against deviation in gas quality, regional driving conditions, etc). When you get ProTuned, the tune is essentially tailor made to your mods, quality of gas used, etc. To compare an OTS COBB against a JB4/PROcede isn't an accurate comparison, especially when most people are seeing 40-50 WHP gains with their ProTune Maps over the OTS Maps (more when doing E85 blends).
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      11-26-2012, 12:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
This addresses both things I've quoted. When you buy a COBB AP, you basically download from COBB's website their OTS (Off-the-Shelf) generic maps that are kept intentionally very conservative as a safety precaution (against deviation in gas quality, regional driving conditions, etc). When you get ProTuned, the tune is essentially tailor made to your mods, quality of gas used, etc. To compare an OTS COBB against a JB4/PROcede isn't an accurate comparison, especially when most people are seeing 40-50 WHP gains with their ProTune Maps over the OTS Maps (more when doing E85 blends).
+1
Thank you for clearing that up!
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      11-26-2012, 12:59 PM   #69
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I have both tunes lol The Cobb by itself was disappointing.
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      11-26-2012, 01:08 PM   #70
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Nice vid
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      11-26-2012, 03:06 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
This addresses both things I've quoted. When you buy a COBB AP, you basically download from COBB's website their OTS (Off-the-Shelf) generic maps that are kept intentionally very conservative as a safety precaution (against deviation in gas quality, regional driving conditions, etc). When you get ProTuned, the tune is essentially tailor made to your mods, quality of gas used, etc. To compare an OTS COBB against a JB4/PROcede isn't an accurate comparison, especially when most people are seeing 40-50 WHP gains with their ProTune Maps over the OTS Maps (more when doing E85 blends).
That is a fact, however - JB/Procede are also OTS tunes, so I think it's fair to compare to a Cobb OTS map/tune.

Because a protune is custom per car/owner, no two Protune tunes are the same so they cannot be fairly compared to a JB4 which is all OTS tunes.

Now compare a custom Vishnu tune to a Cobb tune - and that would be fair.

The point is custom tunes should not be compared to any OTS tune.
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      11-26-2012, 03:36 PM   #72
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That is a fact, however - JB/Procede are also OTS tunes, so I think it's fair to compare to a Cobb OTS map/tune.
The JB4/PROcede both have their "AutoTune" feature that adapt & increase the power depending on mods/gas. Meanwhile, the COBB OTS maps do not AutoTune/Readjust over time.
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      11-26-2012, 03:38 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
The JB4/PROcede both have their "AutoTune" feature that adapt & increase the power depending on mods/gas. Meanwhile, the COBB OTS maps do not AutoTune/Readjust over time.
Thats just a limitation of the tuning method, and I think its fair to compare them on that basis, wouldn't you say?
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      11-26-2012, 03:41 PM   #74
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Thats just a limitation of the tuning method, and I think its fair to compare them on that basis, wouldn't you say?
No, like I previously said COBB intentionally keeps the tunes very conservative to make sure that the tune & car "get along" before cranking up the performance with a PROtune.

This is why a PROtune (which has been adjusted to the specific car & mods) vs"AutoTuned" JB4/PROcede is a more accurate comparison. If the piggy owner wants to go in & adjust some settings (fine tuning), by all means go for it & It would still be a level playing field.
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      11-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #75
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I honestly think Cobb leaves their tunes on the conservative side to leave room for independent shops to make money off protunes. Unlike most platforms, the N54 DME is a great safety net for running too aggressive of a tune. Most platforms would have gone boom a long time ago..

Piggyback autotuning is great, if you feel comfortable riding the knock sensor.
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      11-27-2012, 09:56 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
The JB4/PROcede both have their "AutoTune" feature that adapt & increase the power depending on mods/gas. Meanwhile, the COBB OTS maps do not AutoTune/Readjust over time.
Yes, but that is a feature just like Cobb has launch control. Let's stay on topic - We are referring to the OTS 'static' maps, yes? If so, JB4 is a apples to apples comparison to Cobb.

And while I'm at it, JB4 out performs Cobb with both their static maps and features.

Whether its a Protune or any other tune from a 'shop'... it's flashed tune to the ECU and replaces the majority of the purpose for both units we are talking about. So, at that point so you can throw both devices out the window because it only serves as a map changer and diagnostic tool at that point.
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      11-27-2012, 10:06 AM   #77
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my 135i beat countless n54 auto's with similar mods...
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      11-27-2012, 10:11 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Yes, but that is a feature just like Cobb has launch control. Let's stay on topic - We are referring to the OTS 'static' maps, yes? If so, JB4 is a apples to apples comparison to Cobb.

And while I'm at it, JB4 out performs Cobb with both their static maps and features.
1st off, the last part of your post makes no sense.


2nd, since when does COBB has LC for their BMW tunes (there's also no NLS either before you say that)?? There is no directly comparison here UNLESS you're not using Map 5 (the AutoTune Map). AND if you want to compare the JB4 to a COBB, this is what happens:

E90 335 COBB (camera car) vs 135 JB4 (guess who wins every time):


The JB4/PROcede cannot possibly outperform the COBB when it doesn't modify fueling tables or engine timing. The COBB (just like a GIAC or EuroCharged FLASH tune) can adjust & recalibrate these engine performance parameters depending on the mods & gas being used + actually tune the car. Not that there's anything wrong with the piggys, but all they really do is change the boost being targeted & let the OEM DME compensate (which not only isn't tuning, it's incredibly stupid to run your engine & use the OEM DME/knock detection as a safety net)
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      11-27-2012, 10:14 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
1st off, the last part of your post makes no sense.


2nd, since when does COBB has LC for their BMW tunes (there's also no NLS either before you say that)?? There is no directly comparison here UNLESS you're not using Map 5 (the AutoTune Map). AND if you want to compare the JB4 to a COBB, this is what happens:

E90 335 COBB (camera car) vs 135 JB4 (guess who wins every time):


The JB4/PROcede cannot possibly outperform the COBB when it doesn't modify fueling tables or engine timing. The COBB (just like a GIAC or EuroCharged FLASH tune) can adjust & recalibrate these engine performance parameters depending on the mods & gas being used + actually tune the car. Not that there's anything wrong with the piggys, but all they really do is change the boost being targeted & let the OEM DME compensate (which not only isn't tuning, it's incredibly stupid to run your engine & use the OEM DME/knock detection as a safety net)
your making me want to return my JB4 that I purchased yesterday and get a COBB instead. lol
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      11-27-2012, 10:41 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
your making me want to return my JB4 that I purchased yesterday and get a COBB instead. lol
Hahaha right now flashes are the best way to go & COBB has the most user friendly setup (The AP allows you to switch maps in your drive, can also code read/clear, take data logs easily & fine tune through ATR or get a custom ProTune map made for you).

If you're going to do entry-level mods (Tune, Intake), then a piggy is money better spent. But if you're gonna go Fully-Bolted & maybe further (upgraded turbos, etc), then a Flash (IMO, COBB) is money better spent.
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      11-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
The JB4/PROcede both have their "AutoTune" feature that adapt & increase the power depending on mods/gas. Meanwhile, the COBB OTS maps do not AutoTune/Readjust over time.
Procede does not have autotune feature, so it is OTS if your tuner has not tuned it for your individual car&mods. You should compare OTS maps or then custom tuned. Now you are comparing custom tune vs OTS.
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      11-27-2012, 11:02 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Procede does not have autotune feature
You sure? Looks like it's had AutoTune since August 2010 (look under 8-17 Map Details): http://www.vishnutuningforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21
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      11-27-2012, 11:09 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
1st off, the last part of your post makes no sense.


2nd, since when does COBB has LC for their BMW tunes (there's also no NLS either before you say that)?? There is no directly comparison here UNLESS you're not using Map 5 (the AutoTune Map). AND if you want to compare the JB4 to a COBB, this is what happens:

E90 335 COBB (camera car) vs 135 JB4 (guess who wins every time):

The JB4/PROcede cannot possibly outperform the COBB when it doesn't modify fueling tables or engine timing. The COBB (just like a GIAC or EuroCharged FLASH tune) can adjust & recalibrate these engine performance parameters depending on the mods & gas being used + actually tune the car. Not that there's anything wrong with the piggys, but all they really do is change the boost being targeted & let the OEM DME compensate (which not only isn't tuning, it's incredibly stupid to run your engine & use the OEM DME/knock detection as a safety net)
You may not agree with my last sentance, but understanding it seems to be more of a comprehension issue for you. It makes perfect sense, you simply chose to disagree and couldn't quite verbalize it.

Regarding Cobb and LC, I didn't say it was a feature specifically for BMW, I said it was a Cobb feature - that was the point, and it is a FACT. You are being pedantic.

Regarding your last comment - You call it stupid, which is a very subjective and emotional arguement and doesn't deserve any further comment. It's been beaten to death, and most would agree, a JB4 outperforms Cobb's OTS maps, period. And ultimately, this is why you don't like to compare them, isn't it???

But, since we're posting multimedia to make points, here you go.

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      11-27-2012, 11:13 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by n54door View Post
But, since we're posting multimedia to make points, here you go.
You're comparing TERRY's 135 against a normal, random enthusiast's non-ProTune'd COBB car. I already said this, it's not an accurate comparison to do a JB4/PROcede (both have AutoTune) against an Off-the-Shelf/Non-ProTuned COBB car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Regarding Cobb and LC, I didn't say it was a feature specifically for BMW, I said it was a Cobb feature - that was the point, and it is a FACT. You are being pedantic.
If we can't use it on the BMW platform, why even mention it? The GTR comes with LC, but that does absolutely nothing for anyone on this forum so there's no point in bringing it up
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      11-27-2012, 11:20 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
You sure? Looks like it's had AutoTune since August 2010 (look under 8-17 Map Details): http://www.vishnutuningforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21
You are a few years behind your time You are giving advice without really knowing the products you are talking about.
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      11-27-2012, 11:21 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Procede does not have autotune feature, so it is OTS if your tuner has not tuned it for your individual car&mods. You should compare OTS maps or then custom tuned. Now you are comparing custom tune vs OTS.
Hey Benzy, try reading this again
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      11-27-2012, 11:28 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
You are a few years behind your time You are giving advice without really knowing the products you are talking about.
AutoTuning is all the same, I mean here's a quote right off of the Vishnu PROcede forum:
Quote:
Autotuning will adjust it upwards if/when conditions allow.
They're all the same: the piggy adapts depending on the conditions, gas octane & mods and can raise/lower boost depending on the conditions. On both the JB4 & PROcede you can fine tune it yourself & create a "Custom Map", but it will not allow you to tune as in-depth as the COBB + ATR will.
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      11-27-2012, 11:28 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
You're comparing TERRY's 135 against a normal, random enthusiast's non-ProTune'd COBB car. I already said this, it's not an accurate comparison to do a JB4/PROcede (both have AutoTune) against an Off-the-Shelf/Non-ProTuned COBB car.
Yep. How about this - Cobb is sucks unless you have a protune, or unless you add a Jb4 to it to get the best of both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
If we can't use it on the BMW platform, why even mention it? The GTR comes with LC, but that does absolutely nothing for anyone on this forum so there's no point in bringing it up
Because it's a 'feature' and that was the point of the argument. Cobb has features, that is one of them. And, I bet we will have LC very soon - they offer this feature for most platforms once all the kinks have been worked out.
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