E90Post
 


TireRack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Procede logs - fuel trims maxed - please help



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-25-2012, 10:51 PM   #67
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Same car, no changes other than tune:
Attached Images
 
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 12:18 AM   #68
badass335
Lieutenant Colonel
 
badass335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i E90 AT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Surrey, BC

Posts: 1,795
iTrader: (10)

interesting
badass335 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 01:47 AM   #69
Ilma
Colonel
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: hometown

Posts: 2,531
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Same car, no changes other than tune:
Could you log your fuel trims so that we can see the improvement over procede fuel management please.

Seems we are seeing more and more that the piggy's need a back end flash to manage fuel properly.
__________________
Sticky is an idiot
Ilma is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 09:13 AM   #70
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilma View Post
Could you log your fuel trims so that we can see the improvement over procede fuel management please.

Seems we are seeing more and more that the piggy's need a back end flash to manage fuel properly.
I can log the trims, but I don't think its going to show anything significant because the DME doesn't use trims to increase fuel capacity the way the piggybacks do. Logging the trims isn't going to be a direct comparison with the procede.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 09:18 AM   #71
cn555ic
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
cn555ic's Avatar
 
Drives: 917-939-4980
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York

Posts: 18,255
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via Yahoo to cn555ic
Hmm. Looks to be running nice.
__________________

Coding E and F New York 917-939-4980
cn555ic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 09:29 AM   #72
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
I can log the trims, but I don't think its going to show anything significant because the DME doesn't use trims to increase fuel capacity the way the piggybacks do. Logging the trims isn't going to be a direct comparison with the procede.
I have a same problem,my fuel trim bank2 maxde anytime with WOT.
do you try changge the O2sensor?
I have changge my HPFP,LPFP,Plug.coil,but its still max..
diddlkiss is offline   China
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #73
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddlkiss View Post
I have a same problem,my fuel trim bank2 maxde anytime with WOT.
do you try changge the O2sensor?
I have changge my HPFP,LPFP,Plug.coil,but its still max..
No I bought a Cobb AP.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 09:54 AM   #74
Wedge1967
Colonel
 
Wedge1967's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland, OR

Posts: 2,173
iTrader: (3)

Sorry, but I have to laugh at the fact the JB community are being forced to buy a COBB AP to fix fueling and other short comings with the JB4. Don't get me wrong, I know the flashed DME is the only way to fix the fueling issues with the stock tables. I too have a flashed DME I paid $100 for. I guess my point is simple, other than gauge hijacking and some other smoke and mirrors our piggies provide, I honestly think that unless JB and Vishnu come up with something really off the wall I have to have it product, the future is leaning to COBB.
Wedge1967 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 10:04 AM   #75
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
I definitely considered the procede flash but in the end decided just to go Cobb because I don't run meth, and with ATR out I think I can do most of what I need without a piggyback.

I don't really think this situation with my car was the fault of the procede (I guess?) but more the programming in my stock DME.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 10:21 AM   #76
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
I definitely considered the procede flash but in the end decided just to go Cobb because I don't run meth, and with ATR out I think I can do most of what I need without a piggyback.

I don't really think this situation with my car was the fault of the procede (I guess?) but more the programming in my stock DME.
yeap,
if I in map0,its so fine,but if in map 1 2 or4,the fuel bank 2 is max with WOT...
In the recent past, I found that a lot of people and I have the same problem.
I think its a soft problem.Because I do not have such a problem.
where is shiv?
Attached Images
    

Last edited by diddlkiss; 11-27-2012 at 10:28 AM.
diddlkiss is offline   China
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 10:32 AM   #77
badass335
Lieutenant Colonel
 
badass335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 335i E90 AT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Surrey, BC

Posts: 1,795
iTrader: (10)

My car is doing the exact same thing now. Bank 2 maxing out fuel trims! I ran my car on earlier maps around February and trims were fine. With the latest maps, bank 2 seems to max out every time. Car has all bolt ons with meth.
badass335 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:06 AM   #78
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
That looks like exactly what my car was doing.

Could this be a problem with the 9-10 maps? I tried the last auto-tuning maps on the procede site and they had the same issue.
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:06 AM   #79
BigBoosting
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09' M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Savannah

Posts: 294
iTrader: (2)

I think this problem is complicated by the fact that the same symptoms (max fuel trims before expected) can be from a number of issues.

Certainly a hardware issue like O2's could be one problem. There are just too many people including myself that have no hardware issues and a flash fixes the problem.

I wish "someone" would address the issue instead of blaming the car.
BigBoosting is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #80
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by badass335 View Post
My car is doing the exact same thing now. Bank 2 maxing out fuel trims! I ran my car on earlier maps around February and trims were fine. With the latest maps, bank 2 seems to max out every time. Car has all bolt ons with meth.
I use the 5-23 and 9-10 map.Which map do you on?
diddlkiss is offline   China
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:43 AM   #81
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,293
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Sorry, but I have to laugh at the fact the JB community are being forced to buy a COBB AP to fix fueling and other short comings with the JB4. Don't get me wrong, I know the flashed DME is the only way to fix the fueling issues with the stock tables. I too have a flashed DME I paid $100 for. I guess my point is simple, other than gauge hijacking and some other smoke and mirrors our piggies provide, I honestly think that unless JB and Vishnu come up with something really off the wall I have to have it product, the future is leaning to COBB.
BMS provides their backend flash tune free of charge, and ignoring the VANOS and advance benefits it's only needed for cars running heavy mixtures of E85 without meth or large turbos where the OEM flash is maxing out fuel trims.

Currently the only way to load their free flash is with a Cobb AP. Because that is the only at home flashing solution that is currently available. Maybe some day some other at home solution will come out that is less expensive?

I will say it's a lot better than shipping your DME out every time you need a flash update, being without a car for days, hoping it all goes to plan. Your PROcede flash is different for 100% E85 vs. 50% E85 so what happens if you decide not to run 100% E85 some day? Or the gas station runs out? You ship the DME back for a few more days of down time? Or what about when Shiv adds some new super-dooper table unlocking more power? You ship the same back and wait a few days again? Then when you go in for service then what? You reconnect all your fuel lines to stock, hope nothing leaks, and ship it back again for an OEM flash? It's simply not a practical approach not to mention
removing the DME itself is not a super easy feat.

On the costs the APs sell for $8xx.00 new but $600-650 used, so when you turn the lease back in, etc, you recover most of your money anyway.

On the tuning end for heavily modified cars the JB4 offers good performance advances over the flash itself. Absolute boost targeting, auto tuning, meth support, gear dependent boost control, on the fly adjustment, your "smoke and mirror" gauges which are very nicely done on the JB4, support for boost levels up to 25psi, etc. And many cars don't even need the BMS flash. It's just those who run out of fuel from running big E85 mixtures or large turbos.

Mike
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:48 AM   #82
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
BMS provides their backend flash tune free of charge, and ignoring the VANOS and advance benefits it's only needed for cars running heavy mixtures of E85 without meth or large turbos where the OEM flash is maxing out fuel trims.

Currently the only way to load their free flash is with a Cobb AP. Because that is the only at home flashing solution that is currently available. Maybe some day some other at home solution will come out that is less expensive?

I will say it's a lot better than shipping your DME out every time you need a flash update, being without a car for days, hoping it all goes to plan. Your PROcede flash is different for 100% E85 vs. 50% E85 so what happens if you decide not to run 100% E85 some day? Or the gas station runs out? You ship the DME back for a few more days of down time? Or what about when Shiv adds some new super-dooper table unlocking more power? You ship the same back and wait a few days again? Then when you go in for service then what? You reconnect all your fuel lines to stock, hope nothing leaks, and ship it back again for an OEM flash? It's simply not a practical approach not to mention
removing the DME itself is not a super easy feat.

On the costs the APs sell for $8xx.00 new but $600-650 used, so when you turn the lease back in, etc, you recover most of your money anyway.

Mike
Hi mike
I think i need a OCC,but I am in China.can you ship it to here?
thanks
diddlkiss is offline   China
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #83
diddlkiss
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 335i E90 Lci N54
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tsingtao

Posts: 247
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
I think this problem is complicated by the fact that the same symptoms (max fuel trims before expected) can be from a number of issues.

Certainly a hardware issue like O2's could be one problem. There are just too many people including myself that have no hardware issues and a flash fixes the problem.

I wish "someone" would address the issue instead of blaming the car.
How do you solve the problem?
thanks
diddlkiss is offline   China
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:51 AM   #84
DallasBoosted
Captain
 
DallasBoosted's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

Posts: 864
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
BMS provides their backend flash tune free of charge, and ignoring the VANOS and advance benefits it's only needed for cars running heavy mixtures of E85 without meth or large turbos where the OEM flash is maxing out fuel trims.

Currently the only way to load their free flash is with a Cobb AP. Because that is the only at home flashing solution that is currently available. Maybe some day some other at home solution will come out that is less expensive?

I will say it's a lot better than shipping your DME out every time you need a flash update, being without a car for days, hoping it all goes to plan. Your PROcede flash is different for 100% E85 vs. 50% E85 so what happens if you decide not to run 100% E85 some day? Or the gas station runs out? You ship the DME back for a few more days of down time? Or what about when Shiv adds some new super-dooper table unlocking more power? You ship the same back and wait a few days again? Then when you go in for service then what? You reconnect all your fuel lines to stock, hope nothing leaks, and ship it back again for an OEM flash? It's simply not a practical approach not to mention
removing the DME itself is not a super easy feat.

On the costs the APs sell for $8xx.00 new but $600-650 used, so when you turn the lease back in, etc, you recover most of your money anyway.

On the tuning end for heavily modified cars the JB4 offers good performance advances over the flash itself. Absolute boost targeting, auto tuning, meth support, gear dependent boost control, on the fly adjustment, your "smoke and mirror" gauges which are very nicely done on the JB4, support for boost levels up to 25psi, etc. And many cars don't even need the BMS flash. It's just those who run out of fuel from running big E85 mixtures or large turbos.

Mike
Great sales pitch on the JB4, but do you have any input on why our DME's are reacting this way? Since the JB4 and Procede adjust fuel via the same mechanism, wouldn't the JB4 have the same issue with my stock DME programming?
DallasBoosted is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 11:58 AM   #85
BigBoosting
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 09' M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Savannah

Posts: 294
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Great sales pitch on the JB4, but do you have any input on why our DME's are reacting this way? Since the JB4 and Procede adjust fuel via the same mechanism, wouldn't the JB4 have the same issue with my stock DME programming?
Yup, I had a JB4 prior to my Procede. Same deal, maxed fuel trims too early.
BigBoosting is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 12:04 PM   #86
Mike@N54Tuning.com
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: 07335i
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth

Posts: 14,293
iTrader: (86)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Great sales pitch on the JB4, but do you have any input on why our DME's are reacting this way? Since the JB4 and Procede adjust fuel via the same mechanism, wouldn't the JB4 have the same issue with my stock DME programming?
Most likely your tuner has set tables related to fuel pressure and fuel trims improperly causing your problems. I'm surprised Shiv didn't just correct it for you. It's normal to run out of fuel trims at 17psi+ using 50% E85. It's not normal on pump gas at 15psi. The lambda codes you have stored might also be contributing to your problems. You basically need some customer support from your tuner to resolve it IMHO.

Just email or call in a support ticket.

Mike

Last edited by Mike@N54Tuning.com; 11-27-2012 at 12:12 PM.
Mike@N54Tuning.com is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 02:03 PM   #87
Joshboody
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: pickemuptruck
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 1,708
iTrader: (7)

Maxed trims is due to how piggies increase fuel volume. This is done by biasing (reducing) the rail pressure signal to the DME and thus DME increases pressure to meet target. This in turn gives a risk of DME recognizing HPFP issue not being able to meet pressure target. The tuning has to be below this threshold but also meet power desires of the consumer. Cold weather and AT can make the situation worse. But it does work well and is consistent when you're within the limits.

Hardware and BMW tuning can also play a role. If rail pressure is different due to these factors then the bias has an altered effect because it is a set voltage, but fuel volume percentage increase is based on actual pressure. So DME with lower pressure target for example will have greater volume increase with X bias.

You do have parameters to alter to change the end result like boost curve, E%, OL table/global.

I use Cobb with Procede and works very well.
Joshboody is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-27-2012, 02:09 PM   #88
jippii ensio
Major
 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: On the road

Posts: 1,168
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Yup, I had a JB4 prior to my Procede. Same deal, maxed fuel trims too early.
Could it be Progman/ISTA version related? Do you know yours?
jippii ensio is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST