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      12-01-2012, 10:21 AM   #1
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Procede flashed and now runs rich

I just got my DME back from getting the Procede flash. My trims are amazing now, but the car runs too rich.

This is a log from a 3rd gear run on the stg3 E85 50/50 map

From the read me file it states: "Expect to see an AFR target of ~14.5:1 up to 4500rpm, gradually enriching to ~12.5:1 by 7000rpm."

And you can see that I am way richer than that, never touching 14.5 and in fact I'm in the 11's the entire rpm band until after 6K rpm. My OL fueling is set to 80 and I havn't touched any other setting.

What do I need to change, where do I change it, and what numbers do i substitute in to get the AFR's to lean out?
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      12-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #2
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Reduce OL fuel settings. I think remember shiv saying that ~40 was about right but I'm not 100% sure because that was a while back.
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      12-01-2012, 12:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Reduce OL fuel settings. I think remember shiv saying that ~40 was about right but I'm not 100% sure because that was a while back.

I thought OL fueling played no part in AFR's unless you started maxing trims and the AFR's go lean?

If I drop the OL from 80 I will start to get higher trims of course. I think I peak at about 22% now with it set to 80. I assume if I drop that to 70 I will start to get close to hitting the max fuel trims again.
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      12-01-2012, 12:21 PM   #4
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I thought OL fueling played no part in AFR's unless you started maxing trims and the AFR's go lean?

If I drop the OL from 80 I will start to get higher trims of course. I think I peak at about 22% now with it set to 80. I assume if I drop that to 70 I will start to get close to hitting the max fuel trims again.
Try dropping to 70 and then log. If it doesn't help then put it back to 80. I think there is a way with the PROcede to set target AFRs but I've never ran the PROcede so I can't tell you how to do it.
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      12-01-2012, 12:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
Try dropping to 70 and then log. If it doesn't help then put it back to 80. I think there is a way with the PROcede to set target AFRs but I've never ran the PROcede so I can't tell you how to do it.
I saw that you can change the Target AFR map, but I am a little weary on doing that right off the bat. The reason being is that I figure changing that map is usually for fine tuning, I am off by several AFR points, 11.3 instead of 14.5. That leads me to believe that there might be something else up.
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      12-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #6
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I thought OL fueling played no part in AFR's unless you started maxing trims and the AFR's go lean?
That is incorrect. They always affect fueling. The OL provides an offset that can be used to reach target AFR. If your AFR target is richer than you want, adjust the AFR target table. The OL fuel table will allow you to adjust fuel trims (and initial onset fueling).

I was super rich when I got the flash and changed my OL cells (in the MAP, not global) to be in be 40's.
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      12-01-2012, 01:46 PM   #7
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That is incorrect. They always affect fueling. The OL provides an offset that can be used to reach target AFR. If your AFR target is richer than you want, adjust the AFR target table. The OL fuel table will allow you to adjust fuel trims (and initial onset fueling).

I was super rich when I got the flash and changed my OL cells (in the MAP, not global) to be in be 40's.
You changed the OL fueling map or the AFR target map to 40's? You say if you are running rich then change the AFR target table, but then you say you adjusted the OL table. I'm a bit confused?
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      12-01-2012, 02:23 PM   #8
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You changed the OL fueling map or the AFR target map to 40's? You say if you are running rich then change the AFR target table, but then you say you adjusted the OL table. I'm a bit confused?
He is saying if AFR TARGET is richer or leaner than you want then adjust the target. If TARGET is where you want it but you're still rich or lean then adjust OL fueling value.
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      12-01-2012, 02:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
I just got my DME back from getting the Procede flash. My trims are amazing now, but the car runs too rich.

This is a log from a 3rd gear run on the stg3 E85 50/50 map

From the read me file it states: "Expect to see an AFR target of ~14.5:1 up to 4500rpm, gradually enriching to ~12.5:1 by 7000rpm."

And you can see that I am way richer than that, never touching 14.5 and in fact I'm in the 11's the entire rpm band until after 6K rpm. My OL fueling is set to 80 and I havn't touched any other setting.

What do I need to change, where do I change it, and what numbers do i substitute in to get the AFR's to lean out?
With the BMS flash you are supposed to change the settings to disable the o2 biasing on the JB4. Maybe you need to do the same thing for your PROcede.

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      12-01-2012, 03:01 PM   #10
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Lower your OL and re log, I was running a 9:1 afr when I first got my dme back on 100 OL, bumping it down leaned me out.
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      12-01-2012, 07:40 PM   #11
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Lowered my OL to 60. Trims came up to about a 26% and my AFR's didn't really move. They are still in the mid to high 11's throughout the range until right at 6K where it comes up to 12.3.
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      12-01-2012, 07:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Lowered my OL to 60. Trims came up to about a 26% and my AFR's didn't really move. They are still in the mid to high 11's throughout the range until right at 6K where it comes up to 12.3.
Isn't that what you want? AFR of ~12 at WOT and high engine load?
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      12-01-2012, 07:50 PM   #13
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Isn't that what you want? AFR of ~12 at WOT and high engine load?
No, not with the e85 maps. It shouldn't run so rich in the mid range as per the read me file for the maps.
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      12-01-2012, 07:56 PM   #14
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No, not with the e85 maps. It shouldn't run so rich in the mid range as per the read me file for the maps.
Whoops sorry somehow missed the E85 part, I'e been tuning all day so i kinda have blinders on haha
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      12-02-2012, 10:27 PM   #15
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I had this issue also, had to adjust the OL "table" values to 50

Here is my thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755459
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      12-02-2012, 10:38 PM   #16
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I had this issue also, had to adjust the OL "table" values to 50

Here is my thread: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755459
Can you post a log after you made your changes?

It was suggested to you in your thread to change all the AFR target cells to 50, but that was with the 9-10 aggressive pump gas maps. I am running the 50/50 E85 maps and I dont think changing them to 50 is the correct idea for me since they are already adjusted for E85.

I would like to see your logs though after you ran E85 to see your AFR's, so I can compare.
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      12-02-2012, 10:53 PM   #17
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Did you get the Procede flash for E85 or for gas? I believe the 50/50 E85 maps are set up for users without the backend flash. That is probably why you are running so rich. Your DME was flashed to provide more fuel, and then the Procede is adding even more fuel on top of it. Reduce the values in the AFR table to 50 and re-log. If you are worried about being too lean, you could start by changing the values from 138-255 kPa to 40 at first. That will still have the Procede enrichen the fuel some although I don't think it is necessary. Changing the AFR table will keep the Procede from adding additional fuel where it isn't necessary, and should clean everything up for you.
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      12-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Can you post a log after you made your changes?

It was suggested to you in your thread to change all the AFR target cells to 50, but that was with the 9-10 aggressive pump gas maps. I am running the 50/50 E85 maps and I dont think changing them to 50 is the correct idea for me since they are already adjusted for E85.

I would like to see your logs though after you ran E85 to see your AFR's, so I can compare.
I have since changed to the flex fuel kit so I do not have an immediate follow up for you.

Keep in mind those maps are intended for people that are not flashed. Move the table values slowly and log or call vishnu on monday.
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      12-03-2012, 09:17 AM   #19
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Did you get the Procede flash for E85 or for gas? I believe the 50/50 E85 maps are set up for users without the backend flash. That is probably why you are running so rich. Your DME was flashed to provide more fuel, and then the Procede is adding even more fuel on top of it. Reduce the values in the AFR table to 50 and re-log. If you are worried about being too lean, you could start by changing the values from 138-255 kPa to 40 at first. That will still have the Procede enrichen the fuel some although I don't think it is necessary. Changing the AFR table will keep the Procede from adding additional fuel where it isn't necessary, and should clean everything up for you.
I have the 50/50 E85 flash, so you are probably correct.

I will call them today and see if I can figure it out.
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      12-03-2012, 10:22 AM   #20
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IIRC with the little information around this forum about the procede flash, you are supposed to disable O2 biasing completely and allow the flashed DME to do the fueling. That being said, you'd need an "Ethanol flash" for the car to hit the correct targets, I dont know if vishnu uses a one-off flash or has one for gas and one for Ethanol.

That being said, not sure if the flex sensor adjusts fueling depening on alcohol content, but it should auto adjust the agressiveness on the fly.
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      12-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #21
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IIRC with the little information around this forum about the procede flash, you are supposed to disable O2 biasing completely and allow the flashed DME to do the fueling. That being said, you'd need an "Ethanol flash" for the car to hit the correct targets, I dont know if vishnu uses a one-off flash or has one for gas and one for Ethanol.

That being said, not sure if the flex sensor adjusts fueling depening on alcohol content, but it should auto adjust the agressiveness on the fly.
They have 4 separate flashes and the one I got is specifically for 50/50 E85 and NO flex fuel sensor.

What they should do is ship the DME back with instructions on how to set your maps to work correctly with the new flash.
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      12-03-2012, 11:38 AM   #22
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They have 4 separate flashes and the one I got is specifically for 50/50 E85 and NO flex fuel sensor.

What they should do is ship the DME back with instructions on how to set your maps to work correctly with the new flash.
Best bet is to get with Shiv today. I would give him a few more hours as it's only 8:30 am on the WC. I know on my first flash, I was in the high 11's but he re-flashed me before shift sector and with the latest PROcede firmware for the flashed DME, my AFR's are flat at 13.75 without meth running 100% e85 on map 3. I'm logging 80% Ethanol content with my flex sensor.
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