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      11-30-2012, 07:07 PM   #1
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Tunes and Reliability

Well, all of this talk of cylinder head replacement, carbon buildup, and injector failures has caused much concern and potentially changed my plans with the new D. I purchased my 2009 from a local BMW dealer about two months ago with the intention of installing a JBD immediately. I have already put 16,000 miles on it and love this car! For what I do it is perfect...36+ MPG and 400+ lb ft of torque, who could ask for more?

Reading all of the postings here (and the other site), I have not found any correlation that tuning with a JBD (or other tuner) has led to reliability issues. In fact, I have yet to find an example of someone with a tune complaining of carbon deposition... Perhaps this is simple statisitics, but can anyone with a tune provide info as to any suspected or real issues caused by "over-fueling" or boosting rail pressure??

Thanks in advance!
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      11-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
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If there was a correlation, it would be all over this forum and JBD would cease to exist. I vote that you just get the JBD. If it does causes an issue, the ECU will notify you. I've had my JBD for 6 months now and have had no issues.
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      11-30-2012, 11:05 PM   #3
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I asked the same question to myself; if the tunes actually prevent these rubbish carbon build up problems. I plan on getting the JBD next week. I pick up my new 2010 335d tomorrow.
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      12-01-2012, 12:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135i_vs_ View Post
I asked the same question to myself; if the tunes actually prevent these rubbish carbon build up problems. I plan on getting the JBD next week. I pick up my new 2010 335d tomorrow.
Very nice. You're going to love it!

One thought that has crossed my brain as well is that there are only a handful of individuals reporting the issue (its not like the n54's HPFP problem), but it is certainly enough to get my attention. I'd be curious to know how many diesel owners there are on our forums and what percentage has reported the problem. One thing to keep in mind though is that no one is going to post a copy of their non-anonymous work tickets showing 10k in repairs covered under warranty then say in the same thread , "I've been running a tune for x miles". I think most are a bit too paranoid for that (I would be). That said, I haven't seen any evidence of a correlation between tune and carbon either (not to say there isn't one).
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      12-01-2012, 02:18 AM   #5
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Almost 30K on my '11 335d, JBD (90%) has been installed for nearly 25K; aside from a couple trips to the dealer. Man I love having the JBD installed
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      12-01-2012, 05:55 AM   #6
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As one who has owned a 2011 D only since May 5, 2012, I can hardly speak from experience on this. But I have been also pondering a JBD, a Renntech flash, or an Evolve flash. Am sorta leaning toward the Evolve flash now that a speed shop in Northern VA is a newly-minted Evolve account. But that choice is all a matter of personal preferences in the end I guess since I'm not rich enough to sample each of them.

Back to the intake carbon build-up issue, I have a couple of observations:
1. When I went to my first BMW CCA social in NoVA, the guy sitting next to me owned a speed shop out near Reston. Somewhere in the conversation he warned me about watching for this problem around about 40k mileage. So I just parked the info away. Now that this forum has surfaced at least a couple of cases of this problem, it is probably real enough depending on one's driving style and probably a lot of other factors.
2. What I would be curious about is whether there is any difference in experiencing this carbon buildup problem between those who have a tune and who do not have a tune and also both have at least 50k miles on their machine.
3. Whether or not "blowing the carbon out" regularly as in the old days conventional wisdom makes any difference or not, it seems intuitively that the people who want to install a tune may in fact be putting the pedal to the metal more often.

As soon as I get around to it, I plan to do the tune anyway, but I'm more worried about the dealer messing with the warranty than I am about the impact on carbon buildup. I guess that is also why guys like the JBD add-on so they can take it off prior to having work done. The Evolve guy told me he would reflash it for $100 labor (no freebies) if the dealer writes over it.
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      12-01-2012, 02:03 PM   #7
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I think that the biggest issue is that our sample size and the diversity thereof is not great enough to formulate any truly meaningful/substantive information/knowledge from the data as far as cause and effect goes. The best we can realistically do is learn from the various anecdotal evidence posted and attempt to use them to form a semi-educated opinion. One would think however that IF carbon buildup is truly an issue for our vehicles the tunes which alter event timing (injection, etc) could potentially reduce or further catalyze the issue. I would imagine that JBD would not help, but it may not hurt either (just an undereducated guess though, at this point).

I can say that I've yet to see a negative post related to any of the tunes (with the exception of the few occasional improper installation or random product defect that is easily remedied).

Who is the new local Evolve dealer? That is interesting knowledge of which I was not yet aware.
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      12-01-2012, 04:46 PM   #8
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Great information and I concur with all of these posts. The data is not conclusive, but it certainly is telling that there have not been any reports of carbon fouling with the many JBD's that have been sold.
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      12-01-2012, 09:12 PM   #9
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The CPO 335d I just purchased, I noticed the intake manifold was replaced by the dealer, along with the fuel injectors right before they advertised it for sale. Carbon build up is definitely an issue in these cars. I did not let this discourage me from buying the 335d.

They updated the car to the latest software, parts, etc. Let's see if the problem comes again. I have 100k warranty, so not concerned yet.

Back to the question, does tune(s) have any correlation with carbon build up...
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      12-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
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The CPO 335d I just purchased, I noticed the intake manifold was replaced by the dealer, along with the fuel injectors right before they advertised it for sale.
How many miles on your d? I'm not certain there is a correlation between miles and carbon buildup (it might be more related to driving style/situation), but OTOH it will at least be another data point. Welcome to the d side!
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      12-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #11
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How many miles on your d? I'm not certain there is a correlation between miles and carbon buildup (it might be more related to driving style/situation), but OTOH it will at least be another data point. Welcome to the d side!
50k.
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      12-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #12
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135_vs_: Weren't the two cars you list as having sold a lot more entertaining than the 335d? -Michael
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      12-02-2012, 08:09 PM   #13
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135_vs_: Weren't the two cars you list as having sold a lot more entertaining than the 335d? -Michael
You raise a very interesting question; I gave a lot of thought before I decided to sell the 135i for particularly the 335d.

My reasons:
I did not want a "garage queen" anymore. (I always have more than one car so I always babied the garage queens). I wanted a daily driver.
I wanted an automatic or SMG.
I needed 4 doors (have a son now 3 months old )
I do care about performance and then fuel economy.
I'm more into taking long highway trips then going to the track.
From my research, the 335d was the ONLY German car that satisfied all of my needs.

I ALMOST bought an SMG M5 (was getting tired looking for a 335d, all within 600 mile radius either did not have Sports Package & iDrive, or way over priced). The day before I planed on purchasing it, the 335d was posted by BMW. I bought it the same day.

I think of the 335d as a Driver's Car that's a Daily Driver. Also it has the rare factor here in the States. I never seen a 335d on the road.
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      12-03-2012, 06:39 AM   #14
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Amigos I can attest to this supposedly carbon build up this last saturday as I was going to the 1/2 mile race I had the ENGINE light come up and man i almost SHEIT on myself. I called my mechanic as he was going to race my car for me since I have a broken hand. He told that that occurs also with the JBD on some of his clients. and informed me not to worry I stopped turn car off and back on and it was GONE!! OK I deided later to press on it and GUESS WHAT? Not only the ENGINE light come but also the damn ESE light F'me now Im pissed and scared. I stopped and turned off and back on AGAIN! and the engine light gone but not the SES.

The car was running quite VAGUELY but I realized the the day before I had put on 3 ounces of Amsoil DIESEL injector cleaner and 3ounces of AMSOIL CETANE Booster, I guess all the SOOT was coming off since it had been a month since I had stopped using DIESEL Injector Cleaner. Anyway, my friend drove the 1/2 mile race and he told he clocked 150 mph at the end of the track but forgot to clock at the 1/2 marker(he did it twice) he was VERY IMpressed with the DIESEL, he had had many gassers during his youth and was ALL smiles with the DIESEL. My car clocked the first time 120 mph which I found very disturbing since I had a better program come to find out the systme was not calibrated weel and many competirors were complaining.

Anyway, once I took the car and drove to my uncles house I noticed the car was eager and loose, i looked at my girlfriend and told her "Hey something is wrong with the car, she REPLIED by saying The car is responding better!!" I drove the car to the 1/2 mile race went to my uncles ate and got drunk partied at nite, next day drove to the other extreme of the island and went to see my friends game and drank and ate an came home and looked at the tnak and guess what? 1/2 tank on 243 miles, PRICELES!!!! Now my girlfriend wants a DIESEL!!!

P.S. The SES light went off the next day at my uncles.
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      12-03-2012, 09:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
Who is the new local Evolve dealer? That is interesting knowledge of which I was not yet aware.
I have been corresponding with dan@machv.com.
Mach V Motorsports
45690 Elmwood Ct. #170
Sterling, VA 20166
(571) 434-8333

Here are some extracts from email replies from him in November:
(1)
We've signed our contract with Evolve and will be getting our tuning hardware/software soon. The ECU program license will be $799. I don't know yet how involved the physical part of the reprogramming will be, but figure around $100 in labor to remove, open, reseal, and replace the ECU. If you want a dyno session in conjunction with the tune, to measure the before and after, it'll be $100 additional.
(2)
> Have you established a policy yet about what you will charge if any when a re-flash is needed because the dealership wrote over on top of it?
We'll charge the same labor as the first time, so about $100. But there won't be an additional tune charge.

> And how do you keep up with the official BMW software settings (e.g., emissions) so that it is included when you do your mods?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the car will pass emissions with the tune the same as without.

> Also, short of stored codes that can be taken care of with scanners, will the dealership be aware that you have a mod installed?
There is no reason they would know, or would look for it, but as with any aftermarket tune, if they did do a direct comparison of the ECU code, they could see it. We haven't seen this ever happen, though.
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      12-03-2012, 09:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
Who is the new local Evolve dealer? That is interesting knowledge of which I was not yet aware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMan335dOwner View Post
I have been corresponding with dan@machv.com.
Mach V Motorsports
45690 Elmwood Ct. #170
Sterling, VA 20166
(571) 434-8333

Here are some extracts from email replies from him in November:
(1)
We've signed our contract with Evolve and will be getting our tuning hardware/software soon. The ECU program license will be $799. I don't know yet how involved the physical part of the reprogramming will be, but figure around $100 in labor to remove, open, reseal, and replace the ECU. If you want a dyno session in conjunction with the tune, to measure the before and after, it'll be $100 additional.
(2)
> Have you established a policy yet about what you will charge if any when a re-flash is needed because the dealership wrote over on top of it?
We'll charge the same labor as the first time, so about $100. But there won't be an additional tune charge.

> And how do you keep up with the official BMW software settings (e.g., emissions) so that it is included when you do your mods?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but the car will pass emissions with the tune the same as without.

> Also, short of stored codes that can be taken care of with scanners, will the dealership be aware that you have a mod installed?
There is no reason they would know, or would look for it, but as with any aftermarket tune, if they did do a direct comparison of the ECU code, they could see it. We haven't seen this ever happen, though.
Yup. Dan (owner of Mach V) is good people. I've been conversing with Dan leading up to his contract signing regarding his shop picking up Evolve over the last few months. Good news for us Mid Atlantic guys.

As to the question whether a dealer can find it, YES THEY CAN, if they look hard enough. Your car's DME records EVERYTHING. If there was a catastrophic failure (caused by the tune or not) and BMW NA got involved to try and determine the cause, they can see that certain perimeters were manipulated - not code, but rather your engine is operating outside of factory specs. I have also been told, there is a flash counter in the DME which stores how many times the DME was flashed if ya get my drift. Anyway, the chances they would look that deep are very very low, however, the risk is there, so tune at your own risk and expense.
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      12-07-2012, 12:00 AM   #17
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I found an article about mixing kerosene with diesel. Seems like it increases power and reduces particulate emissions. Since people have been obsessed with carbon junk... Seems like 30% kerosene is the sweet spot.

http://jeteas.scholarlinkresearch.org/articles/Investigation%20of%20Performance%20Characteristics %20of%20Diesel%20Engine.pdf
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      12-07-2012, 08:28 AM   #18
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Tunes should shorten DPF life but by how much who knows. Possibly shorten injector life.
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      12-07-2012, 09:14 AM   #19
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Socom I beleive the DPF would go before the PIEZO injectors, that said. I strongly urge for most of you to use a DIESEL Inejctor cleaner. I for one failed to use it for a month and when i added it my car reacted differently and after two 150 mph runs the car is running wayy better and getting beter mileage as of today I have measure 70 miles on half of a quater of a tank expecting at minimum 100 per first quarter of the tank, mind you my driving is mostly performed in the traffic jam cities in Puerto Rico taht is why on Weekends I beat my DIESEL like a pimp on a corner whore LOL
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