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      11-30-2012, 12:58 PM   #1
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JB4 G5 Experience on 2013 335is

After couple days of driving with JB4 under map5 with 30/70 e85/93 mix, the car pulls harder than ever however there is a bog that I feel when WOT time to time. When WOT, RPM will increase then suddenly drop down couple notches and it will start to increase again.
After some research, I found out that its the clutch slipping...? Please correct me if I'm wrong. As you know already know, the car is brand new. I JUST passed 1200 miles break in period. Not sure if it's really the clutch slipping issue...
On the otherside, I did smoke a random 2013 Mustang GT 5.0 (Stock) off the highway 60~120ish? I did have a head start since the Mustang reacted too late to the third honk. lol We ended up getting off on the same exit and we came to a stop light. I rolled my windows down and I said "Nice car! Anything done under the hood?" And he said, "Thanks man! You too! No mods yet since I just got it 2 weeks ago." Then I replied, "ME TOO!! LOL" then light turned green and we went on to our separate ways.
JB4 definitely helped me "beef" up my car.

Overall, I'm 50/50 on JB4 G5 tuning due to mainly 2 reasons. (for now)
1. Inconsistency. Don't get me wrong. JB4 system has came a long way and it is surprising to see this much gain off piggy back system especially with e85 mixed. (You truly do now know the real power until you mix e85 lol)
However, for some reason, when I run back to back WOT pulls, one run I will receive max/peak boost at ~16psi but the next run will be around ~9~13psi.
And the run after that will max/peak boost at ~15psi again.
I really enjoy the extra gain of power/boost but consistency is what I am seeking over few extra peak boost.
2. Installation. Although it wasn't hard to install JB4, I personally think that if cost isn't an issue, I would get the COBB to re-flash the ecu for much deeper/in-depth tuning. In fact, you don't even need to open the hood for COBB installation process. Kick back and have a beer during the installation.

With that being said, I did purchase a COBB AP and I should have it by next week. Additional comparison between JB4/COBB will be followed after using COBB AP so please stay tuned.

I do have couple questions about COBB AP. Because there are numerous different OTS maps available off COBB website,
1. How do you know which map to go with? Currently I have BMS DCI only. Will I receive any codes if I run Stage2+FMIC Aggressive map (linear throttle) even though it says FMIC, DP is required?
2. Can you run RACE maps? Since 335is has extra cooling capability, are you able to run maps that exceeds your FBO requirements such as FMIC/DP/Exhaust mods? (Not for everyday commute)
3. Are there any protune shops in Michigan for Michigan N54 owners? If not, does e-protune have that much effect over regular protune? What is the gain after e-protune/protune compared to OTS maps? I understand that protune is specifically designed for your own vehicle but there must be an average gain right?

Please advise. ^^

Here are few logs I've done below:






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      11-30-2012, 01:09 PM   #2
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Map 5 is an auto tuning map. That's why you are seeing different boost all the time. Different environmental factors such as ambient temp or heat soak will cause that. If you want more consistency try running one of the maps with a set boost target. With e85 you you may have to log and make some open loop fueling adjustments while on those maps.
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      11-30-2012, 01:11 PM   #3
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For the G5, ensure you are using the G5 ISO firmware and proper settings for the 1M/335is. If you happen to have a Cobb AP you can also load BMS' back end flash.

Mike

Last edited by Mike@N54Tuning.com; 11-30-2012 at 02:01 PM.
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      11-30-2012, 01:11 PM   #4
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Your car (especially the DCT) probably hates you if you've only had it for 2 weeks and are ripping on it with 60-120 runs before you've finished the break-in mileage

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
I do have couple questions about COBB AP. Because there are numerous different OTS maps available off COBB website,
1. How do you know which map to go with? Currently I have BMS DCI only. Will I receive any codes if I run Stage2+FMIC Aggressive map (linear throttle) even though it says FMIC, DP is required?
Read the Map Notes; but the short hand version is:
  1. Stage 1 is for completely stock cars
  2. Stage 1+ is for cars with upgradded FMIC
  3. Stage 2 is for cars with catless/sport cat Downpipes
  4. Stage 2+ is for cars with aftermarket FMIC + DPs (FBO)
If you run Stage 2+ and only have the Stage 1 mods, you only have yourself to blame when something breaks from running an over aggressive tune. Right now you only meed the mod requirement for Stage 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
2. Can you run RACE maps? Since 335is has extra cooling capability, are you able to run maps that exceeds your FBO requirements such as FMIC/DP/Exhaust mods? (Not for everyday commute)
Once again, read the Race Map Notes. ALL of the Race Maps require an upgraded Intake, FMIC, DPs & suggest an aftermarket Catback Exhaust. These mods are just because of cooling capabilities, but because the mods (FMIC & DPs) allow you to run more aggressive tune settings that shouldn't be run with OEM components.


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Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
3. Are there any protune shops in Michigan for Michigan N54 owners? If not, does e-protune have that much effect over regular protune? What is the gain after e-protune/protune compared to OTS maps? I understand that protune is specifically designed for your own vehicle but there must be an average gain right?
Use the COBB website, but there are no local ProTuners for the N54 in Michigan. Contact the guys at ProTuning Freaks about getting an eTune. The quality of an eTune completely depends on the quality of the data logs being taken. If you're emailing them bad logs, you can't expect them to create a quality tune around it. It seems that gains over the OTS Maps range from 25-45 HP with a ProTune, depending on conditions & gas octane being used (91, 93 or E85 blends).

OP -- Spend some time on the COBB site or on the COBB N54 Tune Thread on this forum (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...72813&page=303) to familiarize yourself with the tune before you install it & blame COBB for something that goes wrong. Clearly you haven't spent any time on N54Tech reading about how the JB4 functions otherwise you would understand why the boost level isn't consistent on Map 5.
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      11-30-2012, 01:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
I did purchase a COBB AP and I should have it by next week. Additional comparison between JB4/COBB will be followed after using COBB AP so please stay tuned.

I do have couple questions about COBB AP. Because there are numerous different OTS maps available off COBB website,
1. How do you know which map to go with? Currently I have BMS DCI only. Will I receive any codes if I run Stage2+FMIC Aggressive map (linear throttle) even though it says FMIC, DP is required?
The maps will be based on your current modifications. Being that you have a DCI only, you will want to run the Stage 1 OTS maps only. Of the stage 1 maps, you have Drive (least aggressive), Sport (medium aggressiveness), and Aggressive maps to choose from. As long as you have access to 93 oct, you can run the aggressive maps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
2. Can you run RACE maps? Since 335is has extra cooling capability, are you able to run maps that exceeds your FBO requirements such as FMIC/DP/Exhaust mods? (Not for everyday commute)
The Cobb RACE maps are only recommended for cars with upgraded intake, intercooler, catless or high flow catted downpipes and either an ethanol mix or race gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
3. Are there any protune shops in Michigan for Michigan N54 owners? If not, does e-protune have that much effect over regular protune? What is the gain after e-protune/protune compared to OTS maps? I understand that protune is specifically designed for your own vehicle but there must be an average gain right?

You can check Cobbs website for shops that offer protuning. Etune is a great option, and our resident protuner Jake from Protuningfreaks.com is a great guy that can get you some terrific results. Since you like the power that E85 offers, i would suggest contacting him and getting an Etune for some ethanol. Without all the supporting mods to run the Cobb OTS Race maps, an Etune/protune is the only way to take advantage of ethanol.
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      12-03-2012, 10:07 AM   #6
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Thank you for all of your inputs.
Upon receiving my COBB AP, I will do a full comparison between the two. But it seems like I need to learn more about the COBB AP.

Please stay tuned! ^^
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      12-03-2012, 11:08 AM   #7
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I am interested in this, use the correct maps exclusive for the 335iS recommended by others and see if your still getting slippage, and then try Cobb by itself and see if you get slippage.

Do not try brake boosting. Stay away from it on this particular car. If you are getting slippage on the JB tune and not on the Cobb, then my theory is correct:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post

The DME reports to the DCT values that calculate how much pressure to apply to the clutches to avoid slippage from "increased HP" ie, boost, target, throttle position etc. This will be problematic for piggyback users ie clutch slippage should be more expected on such tuning platform

If your DME "thinks" the turbos are producing only 12 PSI the DCT calculates that into an aproximate HP value and then ups the bar pressure to 10 when in fact you are running more PSI and more HP, which causes the clutches to slip then leading to more heat which will lead to more slip.

Also brake Boosting is harmful to your DCT and will cause slippage if used too many times especially with a piggyback setup on the DCT 335iS exclusively

FYI, I am nearing 200+ launches using LC and my DCT is still STRONG, no slippage whatsoever
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      12-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #8
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Your G5 is not setup properly. Your timing looks bad and your trims are flatlining in places. Email Terry, something is not right here. Also, as far as maps go for Cobb, again email Terry. He will give you the correct map to run on the Cobb to work with the G5. You want to stack the BMS flash under the G5. The combination will give you the best results. But again, get the settings ironed out. Also go ISO if you haven't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostAddict View Post
Map 5 is an auto tuning map. That's why you are seeing different boost all the time.
While this is true, the variance is closer to 0.5-1psi than it is to the 5+ psi he is seeing. Also you won't go from one run at 17 to another at 10. That is not normal.
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      12-03-2012, 11:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i
Your G5 is not setup properly. Your timing looks bad and your trims are flatlining in places. Email Terry, something is not right here. Also, as far as maps go for Cobb, again email Terry. He will give you the correct map to run on the Cobb to work with the G5. You want to stack the BMS flash under the G5. The combination will give you the best results. But again, get the settings ironed out. Also go ISO if you haven't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoostAddict View Post
Map 5 is an auto tuning map. That's why you are seeing different boost all the time.
While this is true, the variance is closer to 0.5-1psi than it is to the 5+ psi he is seeing. Also you won't go from one run at 17 to another at 10. That is not normal.
Heed this advice.

Since you already have G5, run it ISO and use the Cobb you ordered for BMS's flash that supplements the JB4 G5.

There is a sticky on BMS's forum that may help you self-diagnose the tuning problems you're seeing in your datalogs. Read the stickies and if you can't correct things on your own Terry can help you (probably quickly too) get things straightened out.

Running a Cobb stage one map will be unsatisfying compared to a G5 ISO plus BMS flash combination on E85/premium combination, given that you don't have FMIC/DPs to support a higher boost map with the Cobb, unless its protuned to optimize your current set up.
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      12-03-2012, 11:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Your G5 is not setup properly. Your timing looks bad and your trims are flatlining in places. Email Terry, something is not right here. Also, as far as maps go for Cobb, again email Terry. He will give you the correct map to run on the Cobb to work with the G5. You want to stack the BMS flash under the G5. The combination will give you the best results. But again, get the settings ironed out. Also go ISO if you haven't...



While this is true, the variance is closer to 0.5-1psi than it is to the 5+ psi he is seeing. Also you won't go from one run at 17 to another at 10. That is not normal.
I appreciate your feedback ign335i. However, I already uninstalled JB4 and am waiting upon COBB. I'm not sure how I feel about stacking JB4 with COBB. At least not yet... There are other mod priorities first before I use both tuning.
Also, I have not updated ISO yet because I wasn't sure how return policy will be at Burgertuning after cutting the 2 diodes, so I have not touched this yet.
Let me try COBB first and then I will see which tuning I want to stick with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
I am interested in this, use the correct maps exclusive for the 335iS recommended by others and see if your still getting slippage, and then try Cobb by itself and see if you get slippage.

Do not try brake boosting. Stay away from it on this particular car. If you are getting slippage on the JB tune and not on the Cobb, then my theory is correct:
Thanks BuraQ. What's the correct map exclusive for 335is? Does my issue sound like a slippage?
I'm not sure what you mean by Brake boosting. Is that similar to LC?
I haven't experienced LC yet due to break-in period... Although I passed 1200 miles mark, when I try to execute LC (M mode, Sport, DTC off, car is warm)
rpm does that pass more than 1500 rpm.
Brake boosting just sounds like you hold the brake apply throttle at the sametime around ~2500 rpm and you just let go the brake.
Same thing here, when I try to do this, it won't go pass 1500rpm.
I'm not sure what the issue is but if I experience another slippage, I will definitely let you know.
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      12-03-2012, 11:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
I appreciate your feedback ign335i. However, I already uninstalled JB4 and am waiting upon COBB. I'm not sure how I feel about stacking JB4 with COBB. At least not yet... There are other mod priorities first before I use both tuning.
Also, I have not updated ISO yet because I wasn't sure how return policy will be at Burgertuning after cutting the 2 diodes, so I have not touched this yet.
Let me try COBB first and then I will see which tuning I want to stick with.
Too bad... If you have not experienced the new ISO firmware you have not experienced the JB4 G5.

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      12-03-2012, 12:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
I appreciate your feedback ign335i. However, I already uninstalled JB4 and am waiting upon COBB. I'm not sure how I feel about stacking JB4 with COBB. At least not yet... There are other mod priorities first before I use both tuning.
Also, I have not updated ISO yet because I wasn't sure how return policy will be at Burgertuning after cutting the 2 diodes, so I have not touched this yet.
Let me try COBB first and then I will see which tuning I want to stick with.
I don't understand how you can even make a comparison considering your G5 was clearly not setup right. Back to back variations of 5psi and trim flatlines are not normal. I suspect you input the wrong settings either via drop down or on the user adjustment page. The G5 plus Cobb flash is really the best of both worlds, but it seems like you for some odd reason have made your mind up... The G5 alone will spank the hell out of a non protuned Cobb, especially on E85. If you want to get the most out of the tune on Cobb you need it custom made for your car or you need to do ATR.
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      12-03-2012, 12:59 PM   #13
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you weren't slipping the clutch. you were runnin too lean in most of the logs, I'm willing to bet 46 dollars that your fuel pump was takin a hit post shift bcuz of the ethanol and improper settings on your behalf stressing the fuel system out. nbd but it could have been easily fixed with a tweak or two. if.̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨̨.̸̸̨̨*you try the g5 again email terry some logs and ensure all the settings are correct. you might see a big difference
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      12-03-2012, 01:08 PM   #14
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Sounds like you are frying the clutch trying to break boost it.
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      12-03-2012, 01:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
Thanks BuraQ. What's the correct map exclusive for 335is? Does my issue sound like a slippage?
I'm not sure what you mean by Brake boosting. Is that similar to LC?
I haven't experienced LC yet due to break-in period... Although I passed 1200 miles mark, when I try to execute LC (M mode, Sport, DTC off, car is warm)
rpm does that pass more than 1500 rpm.
Brake boosting just sounds like you hold the brake apply throttle at the sametime around ~2500 rpm and you just let go the brake.
Same thing here, when I try to do this, it won't go pass 1500rpm.
I'm not sure what the issue is but if I experience another slippage, I will definitely let you know.
As for the correct MAP you will need to ask Terry directly. Shoot him an email he is REALLY GOOD in responding

For LC control to work you must be in the following config:

M Mode * DTC - Press Button Once (Sport Traction shows in dash) * Sport Button On; example :


Hold brake firmly, then "FLOOR" the gas peddle. Your RPMs should shoot up to 5k RPM. If it doesnt then LC is not ready yet

There are some reports on some 335iS the LC is not ready until after 1300 miles

I recommended to use the two tunes seperately so you can be able to see if the problem is repeating itself. We would be able to weed out what your actually experiencing.

Just stay away from brake boosting via holding brake, and pressing on gas to raise RPM to 1.5k
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      12-03-2012, 01:14 PM   #16
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listen to BuraQ he's a drag strip guy like I am but he has an IS

If you don't see the "clutch slipping " on cobb then it's probably the fueling stress like I said.
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      12-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
listen to BuraQ he's a drag strip guy like I am but he has an IS

If you don't see the "clutch slipping " on cobb then it's probably the fueling stress like I said.
Yeah let me test it out on COBB first and then we will see where that takes me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
As for the correct MAP you will need to ask Terry directly. Shoot him an email he is REALLY GOOD in responding

For LC control to work you must be in the following config:

M Mode * DTC - Press Button Once (Sport Traction shows in dash) * Sport Button On; example :


Hold brake firmly, then "FLOOR" the gas peddle. Your RPMs should shoot up to 5k RPM. If it doesnt then LC is not ready yet

There are some reports on some 335iS the LC is not ready until after 1300 miles

I recommended to use the two tunes seperately so you can be able to see if the problem is repeating itself. We would be able to weed out what your actually experiencing.

Just stay away from brake boosting via holding brake, and pressing on gas to raise RPM to 1.5k

Yeah, I have done all the things listed above and still no LC. Not that I want to do this at the tracks but I just wanted to see what it's like since I've always driven AWD vehicles. Seems like it may be after 1300 miles.

I will be using COBB and JB4 separately until I install more mods. Who knows, I might like JB4 more than COBB later.

Thanks for all of your feed backs! ^_^y
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      12-03-2012, 03:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Too bad... If you have not experienced the new ISO firmware you have not experienced the JB4 G5.

Mike
yeah, I've heard many good feedbacks for ISO firmware users. I will come back to JB4 later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
I don't understand how you can even make a comparison considering your G5 was clearly not setup right. Back to back variations of 5psi and trim flatlines are not normal. I suspect you input the wrong settings either via drop down or on the user adjustment page. The G5 plus Cobb flash is really the best of both worlds, but it seems like you for some odd reason have made your mind up... The G5 alone will spank the hell out of a non protuned Cobb, especially on E85. If you want to get the most out of the tune on Cobb you need it custom made for your car or you need to do ATR.
It's only an initial comparison not a detailed review and I have not made up my mind.
I haven't been on this forum for very long time but the most inquiries I have been spotting so far is "JB4 vs COBB" or "which tune should I go with?" or "which is the best tune"...etc. Just thought I can give my 2cent to the people who are seeking more power.
Yes, 5psi variation is not normal for sure. I have checked the settings via dropdown box and chose G5 board. I know I should have updated ISO firmware but I wasn't sure of BMS return policy.
I just wanted an initial experience for both tuning.

I will be protuning COBB either through a local shop here or PTF people but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm under the impression you will need FMIC+dp to run any Stage 2 + FMIC aggressive maps. So far I only have BMS DCI.
What is an ATR?
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      12-03-2012, 04:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomyBMW View Post
It's only an initial comparison not a detailed review and I have not made up my mind.
I haven't been on this forum for very long time but the most inquiries I have been spotting so far is "JB4 vs COBB" or "which tune should I go with?" or "which is the best tune"...etc. Just thought I can give my 2cent to the people who are seeking more power.
Yes, 5psi variation is not normal for sure. I have checked the settings via dropdown box and chose G5 board. I know I should have updated ISO firmware but I wasn't sure of BMS return policy.
I just wanted an initial experience for both tuning.

I will be protuning COBB either through a local shop here or PTF people but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm under the impression you will need FMIC+dp to run any Stage 2 + FMIC aggressive maps. So far I only have BMS DCI.
What is an ATR?
I guess my point was that you cant really make a comparison, even initial, unless you want to compare an improperly setup G5 to a Cobb. No worries though, you have both and it sounds like you are a tinkerer.

Cobb has requirements for mods and levels since it is flash based. PTF can sort all that through an etune since each car is different. ATR is the software that allows you to modify Cobb tables. What I was getting at is that with flash firmware you need to tune to that specific car to get full performance. Stock programming is flash and its conservative to deal with the variations between cars. The G5 on the other hand can autotune right on the car using the cars sensors. Thus if you add a mod or change something with the G5 it will automatically tune for the most power. What the G5 lacks is the ability to modify the oem tables since it is essentially just intercepting signals and modifying them. This means that there are limits to how much fuel and timing the G5 can add. The stack of Cobb and G5 is the best of both worlds since the Cobb can open up timing, fueling, vanos, etc. and the G5 can get you the most power out or it and adjust to your specific conditions. Hope that is clear and as unbiased as I can be.
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