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      12-03-2012, 11:45 AM   #23
Mike@N54Tuning.com
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Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
They have 4 separate flashes and the one I got is specifically for 50/50 E85 and NO flex fuel sensor.

What they should do is ship the DME back with instructions on how to set your maps to work correctly with the new flash.
Interesting I read there were two flashes and Wedge told me there was only one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you need to disable the o2 biasing just like the JB4 guys do when running the BMS flash. That transfers control of the fueling over to the flash side instead of having the flash adding fuel and the piggy adding even more fuel on top of that.

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      12-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Interesting I read there were two flashes and Wedge told me there was only one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you need to disable the o2 biasing just like the JB4 guys do when running the BMS flash. That transfers control of the fueling over to the flash side instead of having the flash adding fuel and the piggy adding even more fuel on top of that.

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I believe the 4 flashes are:
Pump gas fuel trim increase
50/50 E85, no flex fuel sensor
E85 flex fuel
Single Turbo

I think what you are referring to is accomplished by changing all the AFR target cells to 50.

I called and they had me email them in a log, so I guess we will see if I get an answer.
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      12-03-2012, 01:47 PM   #25
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Best bet is to get with Shiv today. I would give him a few more hours as it's only 8:30 am on the WC. I know on my first flash, I was in the high 11's but he re-flashed me before shift sector and with the latest PROcede firmware for the flashed DME, my AFR's are flat at 13.75 without meth running 100% e85 on map 3. I'm logging 80% Ethanol content with my flex sensor.
Even with e85, isn't 13.75 a little lean at the higher rpms?
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      12-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #26
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I changed all the values in the AFR target table to 50. Several logs still show the AFR's in the mid 11's across the entire rpm band.
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      12-03-2012, 04:48 PM   #27
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Even with e85, isn't 13.75 a little lean at the higher rpms?
With E85 you can run a point lean without issues due to the cooling Ethanol provides with direct injection. You also pick up torque because if I'm not mistaken, peak torque will happen at 13.5:1. In map 3 for Flex Fuel, the PROcede implements enleanment to overcome rich AFRs with e85. It allows you to keep the same fueling table if you switch to pump and meth. Without enleanment it will allow you to hit 12.5:1 while in map 2 and 4.

If you run e85 with meth like I do, you'll need to log to make sure you don't run too rich with e85 and meth and make adjustments to accommodate the AFR targets you want to hit.

BTW, 13.75 was without meth and my AFR tables are set to run with meth.
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      12-03-2012, 05:12 PM   #28
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Is there a simple step I am missing when changing the AFR table values? I changed each cell one by one to 50, then reset the Procede, turned the car off, waited a few seconds, and then started the car back up. OL is set at 60 with trims hovering around 24%.

I then did a few logs and the AFR's are identical to what I was seeing before I touched the AFR target table.
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      12-03-2012, 05:24 PM   #29
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Is there a simple step I am missing when changing the AFR table values? I changed each cell one by one to 50, then reset the Procede, turned the car off, waited a few seconds, and then started the car back up. OL is set at 60 with trims hovering around 24%.

I then did a few logs and the AFR's are identical to what I was seeing before I touched the AFR target table.
That's it. Just set AFR target table to 50 and then adjust (lower) open loop fuel value from there until you fuel trims are reasonable. I still like to see them positive (10-20% is good). If you don't lower the open loop fuel value, they will be negative which will make the car feel a bit sluggish since it will run rich during transient load conditions (before the DME has a chance to pull out fuel).

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      12-03-2012, 06:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
That's it. Just set AFR target table to 50 and then adjust (lower) open loop fuel value from there until you fuel trims are reasonable. I still like to see them positive (10-20% is good). If you don't lower the open loop fuel value, they will be negative which will make the car feel a bit sluggish since it will run rich during transient load conditions (before the DME has a chance to pull out fuel).

Shiv
Something is up then. My AFR target table is set to 50 in all cells, and that didn't change my AFR's at all, still mid 11's across the board. My OL is set at 60 and that gives me trims of about 24%. If I lower it anymore I will be in the 30's, maxing them out again. I don't understand why my AFR's don't fall in line like they did before the flash.

Before the flash, I was maxing my trims of course but my AFR's were fine. 14's around 4500rpm and tapering down to mid 12's at 7K. This tells me there is something else going on after the flash.
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      12-03-2012, 11:30 PM   #31
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Uploaded the stg1 E85 50/50 map to see if it made any difference. It did not, same 11.4 AFR's across the board, even with the AFR target map cells set to 50 and OL to 60.

I called Vishnu and was told to send in some logs. I did so, and there reply was that mid 11's is a great AFR.............NOT FOR E85 it isnt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF, no help
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      12-04-2012, 07:31 AM   #32
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Assuming you did change the biasing tables correctly and did an adaptation reset and a few pulls, then you have the wrong flash.
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      12-04-2012, 08:39 AM   #33
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Assuming you did change the biasing tables correctly and did an adaptation reset and a few pulls, then you have the wrong flash.
I do not like the sounds of that.
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      12-04-2012, 10:08 AM   #34
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Hmmmmmm...that sounds like a plausible scenario that Tzu mentions
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      12-04-2012, 10:24 AM   #35
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You know.

It would make sense that the AFR's are that rich if I was mistakenly given the pump gas flash instead of the E85 flash...................
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      12-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Interesting I read there were two flashes and Wedge told me there was only one. Anyway I'm pretty sure you need to disable the o2 biasing just like the JB4 guys do when running the BMS flash. That transfers control of the fueling over to the flash side instead of having the flash adding fuel and the piggy adding even more fuel on top of that.

Mike
Sorry Mike, I stand corrected. I didn't realize Shiv was doing a few things differently for flex vs non flex. A lot of things have changed from the time I got my first flash. I know I ran rich (11.8) prior to getting flashed before shift sector.
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      12-04-2012, 10:55 AM   #37
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Don't feel bad, mine are in the mid to low 11s also and there is no doubt it's directly related to my flash also.

Before flash was in the mid to low 12s at higher rpms, day I put it back in it was down to the 11s.

I wish vishnu would address this more with a detailed write-up instead of just saying to change afr targets to 50 across the boards which has done nothing.

This flash has helped my fuel trims but has caused me to lose a decent amount of hp/tq with these low afrs, especially when running e85.
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      12-04-2012, 12:08 PM   #38
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I want answers. I didn't ship me DME across the country and pay for my car to run worse 2 weeks later.

I don't think that is an unreasonable opinion.

I sent in more logs, but from the first response I got saying the AFR's are normal doesn't leave me with much confidence. Either that person doesn't really know whats going on or they didn't listen at all what I asked.
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      12-04-2012, 12:37 PM   #39
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Thought I would drop a log out here. Although I'm setup to run meth with e85, I didn't running meth on this run. I'm in flex Map3 with enleanment enabled. So that's why I'm hitting 13.5 to 14 AFRs. I'm sure that would drop a bit in Map 4 with meth. My boost target is also 2 psi lower without meth. I included fuel pressure because I'm running the new booster pump if anyone was interested. Prior to putting the booster pump, I was getting low pressure codes running 60% or higher Ethanol content.

At the time of this run, Ethanol % was at 81.2% according to my Flex Fuel sensor.

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      12-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967
Thought I would drop a log out here. Although I'm setup to run meth with e85, I didn't running meth on this run. I'm in flex Map3 with enleanment enabled. So that's why I'm hitting 13.5 to 14 AFRs. I'm sure that would drop a bit in Map 4 with meth. My boost target is also 2 psi lower without meth. I included fuel pressure because I'm running the new booster pump if anyone was interested. Prior to putting the booster pump, I was getting low pressure codes running 60% or higher Ethanol content.

At the time of this run, Ethanol % was at 81.2% according to my Flex Fuel sensor.

what would this vehicle dyno and why such low boost?
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      12-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #41
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what would this vehicle dyno and why such low boost?
I dyno'd a few weeks back at HPF and made about the same peak numbers as I did with meth, but the power dropped off quicker without.
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      12-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
I want answers. I didn't ship me DME across the country and pay for my car to run worse 2 weeks later.

I don't think that is an unreasonable opinion.

I sent in more logs, but from the first response I got saying the AFR's are normal doesn't leave me with much confidence. Either that person doesn't really know whats going on or they didn't listen at all what I asked.
Call vishnu, they can verify the flash what was loaded. They keep a log of them and I was told by shiv they may even mark the DME itself.

My AFRs are low also running the flex fuel kit. Right around 11.0 plus or minus a tiny bit.
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      12-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #43
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what would this vehicle dyno and why such low boost?
That log is from 4000 RPM to Redline

It's 18 PSI tapering to Mid 12's at redline, which is a little low on the top end but otherwise pretty normal for a car not on methanol.

Where it is low on boost it makes up for it with high ignition timing, which is about 15 degrees on average, 3-5 more on average then your typical pump gas car.

One could push a methanol car to about 15 PSI at red line if they wanted to but that's a story for a different day.
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      12-04-2012, 01:03 PM   #44
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Aleight so what would this car dyno on a dj w this setup? Also, how needed is the inline puml and flex kit assuming u have the flash and aggressive mapping?
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