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      12-04-2012, 01:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I dyno'd a few weeks back at HPF and made about the same peak numbers as I did with meth, but the power dropped off quicker without.
What input are you monitoring to get your E%?
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      12-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #46
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Thought I would drop a log out here. Although I'm setup to run meth with e85, I didn't running meth on this run. I'm in flex Map3 with enleanment enabled. So that's why I'm hitting 13.5 to 14 AFRs. I'm sure that would drop a bit in Map 4 with meth. My boost target is also 2 psi lower without meth. I included fuel pressure because I'm running the new booster pump if anyone was interested. Prior to putting the booster pump, I was getting low pressure codes running 60% or higher Ethanol content.

At the time of this run, Ethanol % was at 81.2% according to my Flex Fuel sensor.

You have perfect AFR's. That is what I am missing. Your timing is awesome, but I know thats from the extra ethanol ability of the flex fuel kit.

There should be no reason my car is running so rich.

I have called them and I was immediately told to send in logs, and the answer I received in an email back was unacceptable.

I sent another email as I am too busy to call right now, hopefully I can get some real answers.
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      12-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Aleight so what would this car dyno on a dj w this setup? Also, how needed is the inline puml and flex kit assuming u have the flash and aggressive mapping?
430-440 WHP off the top of my head, that is full bolt ons including intercooler, maybe even more.

They made for 422WHP with just a DCI.

Inline pump is recommended for 60%+ mixtures.

Flex fuel kit is to measure ethanol content, and the tune will compensate accordingly.

One of the issues with E85 use in its current usage is getting ethanol content consistent, so the flex fuel will compensate accordingly if you have end up running less ethanol content or more.

Nothing here is needed, it is just for the quest in the most efficient gain in power and consistency.

There is a plethora of information and it's easier to read on their site: http://procedetuning.com/BMW/n54/styled-19/index.html

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 12-04-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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      12-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
Thought I would drop a log out here. Although I'm setup to run meth with e85, I didn't running meth on this run. I'm in flex Map3 with enleanment enabled. So that's why I'm hitting 13.5 to 14 AFRs. I'm sure that would drop a bit in Map 4 with meth. My boost target is also 2 psi lower without meth. I included fuel pressure because I'm running the new booster pump if anyone was interested. Prior to putting the booster pump, I was getting low pressure codes running 60% or higher Ethanol content.

At the time of this run, Ethanol % was at 81.2% according to my Flex Fuel sensor.

It looks like you have the same fuel pressure drop BMS has seen around peak torque. Can you do a log just like this from 2000-redline in 3rd or ideally 4th gear?

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      12-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #49
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Biasing works both ways. Set the cells, say, 60 across and see if your AFR bumps up ~0.8 across the board. Not sure if the DME limits for rich/lean conditions are different before intervention, but its worth a try. I would NOT set it any more than 10 points either way in the bias map, but worth a try. If it does enlean the AFRs by ~0.8ish after a couple pulls, then its definately your flash likely being set up for gas. Althoguh IMO it sounds like it already, but if you want to put a nail in the coffin.

Edit: before doing any of the above, post of log with fuel correction so we can see that the procede is actually applying no bias at all. I'll never reccomend intentionally going lean (0.8 above 11 is acceptable) but for any other people who find this post and think its acceptable, its generally not.
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      12-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Biasing works both ways. Set the cells, say, 60 across and see if your AFR bumps up ~0.8 across the board. Not sure if the DME limits for rich/lean conditions are different before intervention, but its worth a try. I would NOT set it any more than 10 points either way in the bias map, but worth a try. If it does enlean the AFRs by ~0.8ish after a couple pulls, then its definately your flash likely being set up for gas. Althoguh IMO it sounds like it already, but if you want to put a nail in the coffin.

Edit: before doing any of the above, post of log with fuel correction so we can see that the procede is actually applying no bias at all. I'll never reccomend intentionally going lean (0.8 above 11 is acceptable) but for any other people who find this post and think its acceptable, its generally not.
I was thinking of doing just that. So I could get more logs to send in and show there is a problem.

I checked the correction and I am pretty sure it was flat with no correction. I will double check again before any new changes.

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      12-04-2012, 04:58 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
You have perfect AFR's. That is what I am missing. Your timing is awesome, but I know thats from the extra ethanol ability of the flex fuel kit.

There should be no reason my car is running so rich.

I have called them and I was immediately told to send in logs, and the answer I received in an email back was unacceptable.

I sent another email as I am too busy to call right now, hopefully I can get some real answers.
I had the same issue before Shiv flashed my DME again the Friday before shift sector. But other than the shop test car, I was the first to get flex and flash.

I'm wondering if it's the firmware you currently running?
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      12-04-2012, 05:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
What input are you monitoring to get your E%?
Oh man... Off the top of my head I know it's one of the debug channels. The Flex Fuel sensor is wired to the Procede.

Edit: Debug Word 6

Last edited by Wedge1967; 12-04-2012 at 06:10 PM.
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      12-04-2012, 05:09 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I had the same issue before Shiv flashed my DME again the Friday before shift sector. But other than the shop test car, I was the first to get flex and flash.

I'm wondering if it's the firmware you currently running?
I am using the 111 firmware for the 50/50 E85 maps. Is it possible I should be running the flex fuel firmware and maps, even though I don't have the flex fuel kit?
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      12-04-2012, 07:02 PM   #54
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Ok. I went out and did multiple 3rd gear pulls with the AFR target map set to 55 and 60 across all cells. As you can see in these two logs my AFR's came up each time. So this leads me to believe I have the wrong flash.

Tell me what you all think........

The first log is with the AFR target cells at 55....AFR's came up to high 11's from mid to low 11's

The second log is with the target cells set to all 60's. The AFR's came up to low 12's as you can see.
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      12-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Ok. I went out and did multiple 3rd gear pulls with the AFR target map set to 55 and 60 across all cells. As you can see in these two logs my AFR's came up each time. So this leads me to believe I have the wrong flash.

Tell me what you all think........

The first log is with the AFR target cells at 55....AFR's came up to high 11's from mid to low 11's

The second log is with the target cells set to all 60's. The AFR's came up to low 12's as you can see.
Well, only Shiv can tell you that because he would need to look at a copy of what he sent you. But if you can lean out your AFR, then keep going until you're happy... I know with Flex Fuel it has the enleanment in the Map 3 that does basically the same thing you're doing.
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      12-04-2012, 07:24 PM   #56
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I can raise the AFR target cells for sure, but to get to high 12's or low 13's I am guessing my target cells would almost be in the 80's. That seem rather high considering the flash is suppose to be ran at 50 and get you the correct AFR's

Also, if for whatever reason I don't have the E85 flash I assume I don't have the timing advance adjustments either to take full advantage of running E85.
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      12-05-2012, 07:44 AM   #57
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Yep, wrong flash. Technically you can modify the tables so the procede will rich bias the engine and give you leaner AFRs, and with the flash you have, can still retain the ability to dump fuel at will if you go back to gas maps. Additionally, you *can* advance timing in the ignition correction tables, but without knowing exactly which tables are modified during vishnus flashing process, i'd highly reccomend against it at this point.

I've requested publicly which tables are modified for the vishnu flash so customers can know exactly whats been done to their DME. I really think it's still a trial and error process for them, regardless of whats being said. This is not like when my meth kit came in peices or my rev2 came with incorrect firmware, this is frankly embarassing.
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      12-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #58
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this is frankly embarassing.
I would agree. It's bad enough to have to ship your DME. Each customer should be getting a full set of instructions on how to adjust the maps after the flash. They should also get some eay way to confirm what is on their DME is the right flash.

We still need that home flashing solution from Vishnu, so we can DL and install the right map without all the hassle.
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      12-05-2012, 08:32 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
Yep, wrong flash. Technically you can modify the tables so the procede will rich bias the engine and give you leaner AFRs, and with the flash you have, can still retain the ability to dump fuel at will if you go back to gas maps. Additionally, you *can* advance timing in the ignition correction tables, but without knowing exactly which tables are modified during vishnus flashing process, i'd highly reccomend against it at this point.

I've requested publicly which tables are modified for the vishnu flash so customers can know exactly whats been done to their DME. I really think it's still a trial and error process for them, regardless of whats being said. This is not like when my meth kit came in peices or my rev2 came with incorrect firmware, this is frankly embarassing.
Thanks for the input.

I sent them those two last logs. I asked about getting the wrong flash by mistake, we will see what they say.

But, In a previous reply to other logs I sent in. I was told that Shiv went over my logs and said they were PERFECT. That an AFR of 11.4 with E85 is I guess "perfect".

It makes no sense that I should be running richer AFR's than there pump gas maps, and somehow they are trying to justify that to me.
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      12-05-2012, 08:43 AM   #60
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On the bright side, atleast they didnt lose your DME during the shipping process.
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      12-05-2012, 08:47 AM   #61
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On my last DD map, I ran 11.8 AFRs on pump. 11.4 on E is too rich IMO, but such is my preference.

Also, drop the P value of your WG PID settings to get rid of your boost oscillations.
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      12-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #62
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Your AFRs being now in 12's is fine in my opinion. You can increase AFR further, but what are you actually after in doing so?
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      12-05-2012, 10:04 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzu View Post
On my last DD map, I ran 11.8 AFRs on pump. 11.4 on E is too rich IMO, but such is my preference.

Also, drop the P value of your WG PID settings to get rid of your boost oscillations.
Thanks for that, that was another concern of mine as well.

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Your AFRs being now in 12's is fine in my opinion. You can increase AFR further, but what are you actually after in doing so?
Because that is where E85 is most effective, at higher AFR's. And that is where my car SHOULD be running, not in the 11's.

I am a stickler for details, if its not right, its not correct.

Also, I re-uploaded the stg3 map. At an OL of 60, AFR target map cells at 60. I am back down to high 11's, never touching the 12's and my trims actually touched 34%.

Something is definitely up.
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      12-05-2012, 11:01 AM   #64
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Thanks for that, that was another concern of mine as well.



Because that is where E85 is most effective, at higher AFR's. And that is where my car SHOULD be running, not in the 11's.

I am a stickler for details, if its not right, its not correct.

Also, I re-uploaded the stg3 map. At an OL of 60, AFR target map cells at 60. I am back down to high 11's, never touching the 12's and my trims actually touched 34%.

Something is definitely up.
I tested 11.8 - 12.8 AFRs on my evo running e85 and found no difference in power, so I opted for 11.8 for being on the safe side with no downside in lost power. Even despite e85 can run leaner, there is no good reason to run lean in cases when it does not increase the power. I haven't done proper testing on N54, but I'd like to see any hard evidence of the benefit of running lean before opting for running lean. Has anyone tested AFRs 13 vs 12 for example while keeping everything else constant?
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      12-05-2012, 02:24 PM   #65
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On the bright side, atleast they didnt lose your DME during the shipping process.
Wouldnt surprise me one bit at this point....

With the stories about these flashing nightmares such as what the OP is having I wouldnt think about mailing my DME...Hope Vishnu can create a much smoother process which will benefit both them and the end user..
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      12-05-2012, 05:00 PM   #66
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I think this is officialy the very first person with a 335 that has complained about having too much fuel!
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