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      12-05-2012, 09:31 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BeMWeh View Post
While I've only been on the forum for a short time, it seems that you have nothing positive to say about BMWs yet you hang around.. what gives?
Sorry, I have been grumpy. I miss the sound of my B7 S4 and Car was at dealership on and off about 6 times over an 8 week period. I've never had car problems like this in 37 years of driving. I made a mistake leasing this thing as its the first AT that I've had in 37 years and I'm bored....and no one will buy it....I'll try and be more positive.
I couldnt care any less what direction BMW is going.
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      12-05-2012, 09:36 AM   #24
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Was wondering what we would (335 drivers) think about the ATS...

Seems like an all around best bang for your buck is the cadillac...to bad they didn't put an ellis in there.

$49k for a cadillac that isn't on air suspension --- no thanks.
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      12-05-2012, 09:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by thatswhatsh3said View Post
Was wondering what we would (335 drivers) think about the ATS...

Seems like an all around best bang for your buck is the cadillac...to bad they didn't put an ellis in there.

$49k for a cadillac that isn't on air suspension --- no thanks.
I think it will take a while for people, especially young people, to get past the "Cadillac" name. If they do....I bet it will go crazy. It once was the "BMW" (perceived prestige) of the car business.

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      12-05-2012, 10:15 AM   #26
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Audi S4 smoked it too, in every catagory including steering feel. I think the upcoming 4 series will address the"performance" issues. Whether you believe it or not , most 3s are driven by non enthusiasts...people who think its cool to be in a BMW. Another reason I am going back to Audi.
audis are now being bought by non-enthusiasts more than anything else. jeremy clarkson had an entire rant on how some of the biggest douches on the road now are audi drivers(read the article here). i think many of you would agree.

as for the OP, after driving a new F30 328i, the steering does feel completely numb. this is dangerous, and we can only hope BMW is not trying to go the way of mercedes or lexus.
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      12-05-2012, 10:26 AM   #27
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audis are now being bought by non-enthusiasts more than anything else. jeremy clarkson had an entire rant on how some of the biggest douches on the road now are audi drivers(read the article here). i think many of you would agree.

as for the OP, after driving a new F30 328i, the steering does feel completely numb. this is dangerous, and we can only hope BMW is not trying to go the way of mercedes or lexus.
What a ridiculous post. Not worth commenting any more. One of the reasons I want to go back to Audi is because they "fly under the radar" relative to BMW.
Having said that........the 4 series coupe could be the best looking car I have ever seen.
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      12-05-2012, 10:36 AM   #28
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I think it will take a while for people, especially young people, to get past the "Cadillac" name. If they do....I bet it will go crazy. It once was the "BMW" (perceived prestige) of the car business.
I'm not a brand yuppy per se, but I like quality things, as much as the next older former yupper.

I've been into caddys for a while, the younger kids are into them -- its just that the younger kids with money dont delve into forums that much.

The prev gen cts had only one problem -- wheel hop, if I were to look for a 2nd car at this point, I'd get one.

Only issue with caddys has been the body styling..and interior. The cost of a luxury car and the feel of a rental.
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      12-05-2012, 10:39 AM   #29
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What a ridiculous post. Not worth commenting any more. One of the reasons I want to go back to Audi is because they "fly under the radar" relative to BMW.
Having said that........the 4 series coupe could be the best looking car I have ever seen.
how do new audis 'fly under the radar' exactly? big grill, long LED strips, etc.

don't get me wrong- i love the new audis. it is the only other manufacturer that i would consider switching over to if bmw drops the ball completely.
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      12-05-2012, 10:53 AM   #30
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Seems like an all around best bang for your buck is the cadillac...to bad they didn't put an ellis in there.
You mean ellis as in LS small block V8?

They're small engines relative to their displacement. OHV and cam in block helps reduce the overall dimensions. It also helps to keep wieght down. There's a new gen coming out soon that includes direct injection and variable valve timing.

Cadillac may hold off on puting it in the ATS due space restrictions, though it's possible it could be made to fit. There are Fiero's running around with LS1 engines. Likely it's the engine's weight keeping it out. They're keen on keeping overall weight down and having a 50/50 distribution in this car.

That said, it doesn't seem overly heavy. I think GM lists an LS3 7.0L engine at around 418 lbs out of a crate. BMW lists the N52 at 161 kg, which is 355 lbs. It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison though.

One other factor may be the fact that greater power delivery demands upgrades to other parts of the car. The differential, transmission, suspension, tires, etc. all need to be able to handle the increased power. This in turn increases the overall weight of the car.

Forced induction and direct injection V6's now have the same power as V8 small blocks of just 10 years ago. GM may surprise everyone later, but I'd guess that we won't see a V8 in an ATS.

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      12-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #31
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GM may surprise everyone later, but I'd guess that we won't see a V8 in an ATS.
I think it's pretty much set that the ATS-V will most likely be a 3.6L twin turbo V6.

The high performance V8 will probably stay with the next CTS-V.
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      12-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #32
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how do new audis 'fly under the radar' exactly? big grill, long LED strips, etc.

don't get me wrong- i love the new audis. it is the only other manufacturer that i would consider switching over to if bmw drops the ball completely.
People don't even notice Audis up here. If you drive a 320 BMW you are labelled. I had a silver (so mirrors wouldnt stand out) B7 S4 that I debadged. Most couldnt tell it from a normal A4. THATS under the radar.
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      12-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #33
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I think it will take a while for people, especially young people, to get past the "Cadillac" name. If they do....I bet it will go crazy. It once was the "BMW" (perceived prestige) of the car business.
I would be pleasantly surprised if the ATS does well. It would suggest to me that branding is less important and that enthusiast-oriented chassis tuning can sell cars, which can be a good sign for the future of the enthusiast car market.
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      12-05-2012, 02:47 PM   #34
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I have not personally driven an ATS or F30 335i, and I'm not trying to sound like a fan boy here, and I could be completely wrong. But to me it almost sounds like Motortrend either "wants" or "needs" another winner in this segment other then BMW.

They have been criticized for years for the 3 series always (or the majority of the time) winning their comparo's.

So the 335i, is the fastest, best handling (figure eight), ties for the shortest braking distance, has the most room and the base price is $990 more then the Benz and $1200 more then the ATS. Lets not forgot gets the best fuel economy also.

Maybe I'm confused? Or the new electric power steering and build quality that bad?
one they tested was prcied $6k more then Caddy and MB

out of 4, I would buy S4 and call it a day
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      12-05-2012, 05:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Wrngway View Post
You mean ellis as in LS small block V8?

They're small engines relative to their displacement. OHV and cam in block helps reduce the overall dimensions. It also helps to keep wieght down. There's a new gen coming out soon that includes direct injection and variable valve timing.

Cadillac may hold off on puting it in the ATS due space restrictions, though it's possible it could be made to fit. There are Fiero's running around with LS1 engines. Likely it's the engine's weight keeping it out. They're keen on keeping overall weight down and having a 50/50 distribution in this car.

That said, it doesn't seem overly heavy. I think GM lists an LS3 7.0L engine at around 418 lbs out of a crate. BMW lists the N52 at 161 kg, which is 355 lbs. It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison though.

One other factor may be the fact that greater power delivery demands upgrades to other parts of the car. The differential, transmission, suspension, tires, etc. all need to be able to handle the increased power. This in turn increases the overall weight of the car.

Forced induction and direct injection V6's now have the same power as V8 small blocks of just 10 years ago. GM may surprise everyone later, but I'd guess that we won't see a V8 in an ATS.
Yes, ellis, ellis juan, etc etc. one two or three.

shit, why not make a ATS-R with a ZR1 motor in that hoe.
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      12-05-2012, 05:44 PM   #36
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one they tested was prcied $6k more then Caddy and MB

out of 4, I would buy S5 and call it a day
I corrected you.
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      12-05-2012, 05:50 PM   #37
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I think it will take a while for people, especially young people, to get past the "Cadillac" name.
I don't care much about the name, it's the ugliness of the Cadillac styling that turns me off. That's the main reason why BMWs and Audis are my favorite manufacturers.
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      12-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #38
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I'm not reading Motortrend again... With this article they shot their own foot.

I have a substantial amount of experience with BMW and MB. I was excited that Cadillac might finally release a decent car...
So I went to my closest Cadillac dealership several weeks ago to see the ATS and let me tell you, we are LIGHTYEARS away from the Germans unfortunately. The rear seats are unusable, the truck is useless for a sedan, the center console continues Cadillac cheap plastic "fancy" looking electronics. There is a feel of CHEAP in the car everywhere, even the steering wheel is too skinny and trimmed with the best plastic Detroit has to offer (crap). So it doesn't matter if they managed to have 0.01g more than the others, I wouldn't even think about the ATS compared to competitors. When you are buying a sedan you can't make so many compromises to live with daily, why would you when you can get a 3-series of C-Class for the same price?

How can Motortrend, supposedly non-bias car testers, crown the ATS as the winner when such BASIC things are wrong: a shity outdated automatic gearbox and even worst manual box (really? In a SPORTS sedan?), a trunk the size of a Honda fit and basically unusable rear seats if the front passengers are not midgets.

I hope Motortrend got a bribe from GM, because if not then they are truly idiots.

If you read all these glamourous things about the ATS, all I ask before you reply is that you do the same thing I did and inspect the car in person. I was very disappointed just by sitting, inspecting it, and playing with the electronics and buttons. So sad, but so far from coming close to a 3 or C. The quality is just not there.
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      12-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #39
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I'm not reading Motortrend again... With this article they shot their own foot.

I have a substantial amount of experience with BMW and MB. I was excited that Cadillac might finally release a decent car...
So I went to my closest Cadillac dealership several weeks ago to see the ATS and let me tell you, we are LIGHTYEARS away from the Germans unfortunately. The rear seats are unusable, the truck is useless for a sedan, the center console continues Cadillac cheap plastic "fancy" looking electronics. There is a feel of CHEAP in the car everywhere, even the steering wheel is too skinny and trimmed with the best plastic Detroit has to offer (crap). So it doesn't matter if they managed to have 0.01g more than the others, I wouldn't even think about the ATS compared to competitors. When you are buying a sedan you can't make so many compromises to live with daily, why would you when you can get a 3-series of C-Class for the same price?

How can Motortrend, supposedly non-bias car testers, crown the ATS as the winner when such BASIC things are wrong: a shity outdated automatic gearbox and even worst manual box (really? In a SPORTS sedan?), a trunk the size of a Honda fit and basically unusable rear seats if the front passengers are not midgets.

I hope Motortrend got a bribe from GM, because if not then they are truly idiots.

If you read all these glamourous things about the ATS, all I ask before you reply is that you do the same thing I did and inspect the car in person. I was very disappointed just by sitting, inspecting it, and playing with the electronics and buttons. So sad, but so far from coming close to a 3 or C. The quality is just not there.
I could not disagree with you more. Cadillac did an amazing job with the ATS inside and out and it beat BMW at its own game. Kudos to GM!
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      12-05-2012, 06:39 PM   #40
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I could not disagree with you more.
I would be happy to hear your opinion if you would elaborate why you disagree...
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      12-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #41
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I would be happy to hear your opinion if you would elaborate why you disagree...
Well mostly when it comes to what you stated about the quality of the materials. If anything the F30 feels a bit cheap compared to the outgoing model and I was actually amazed how well the ATS is put together on the inside. One thing I do not like about the ATS is the instrument cluster, otherwise it is a step up from the F30 IMO.
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      12-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #42
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one they tested was prcied $6k more then Caddy and MB

out of 4, I would buy S4 and call it a day
Yeah but, the "as tested price" I cant really consider because its mostly just options, I'm sure you could have it either way based on the boxes you check when ordering. Its not going to change engine/drivetrain/quality, which is basically what they are comparing.
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      12-06-2012, 06:50 AM   #43
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Problem is on this forum is people are comparing the at to the e90 not the f30. You have to ask this question on the f30 board. In comparing the f30-ats-c class. Id take the c class. The f30 is nothing special to me. The ats is dead ugly. The c class wasn't the sportiest in the past, but out of the newer ones its not that bad and it looks nice
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      12-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #44
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I would be pleasantly surprised if the ATS does well. It would suggest to me that branding is less important and that enthusiast-oriented chassis tuning can sell cars, which can be a good sign for the future of the enthusiast car market.
I'm not sure what Cadillac's marketing strategy is for the ATS but the CTS has been very successful as a more modern, European like Cadillac. I expect the ATS market will be similar and will fill in when the next CTS moves upscale. There will be some conquest sales vs the German competition as well. For years there has been a void in US offerings in this class of car and the ATS is a great clean sheet effort from Cadillac. I don't see the true enthusiast buying this car unless they can accept the AT, V6 version at this time. If GM improves the turbo 4 and it's MT then others like myself will be more open to this model.
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