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      12-05-2012, 06:19 AM   #1
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Ecotune Downpipe

This is the email I wrote them:


I am intrigued if this down pipe will fit the U.S. Version of 335d and By the way do you have any dyno runs to back it up, some of us are interested in this. Thank you
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This was their response:



Hi Axel,

Unfortunately it doesn't fit... I have tried to get a US original part so we can make one for your market. The software is almost identical and one USA customer had his car on a rolling road after our software and getting a custom downpipe. He achieved 374hp/540ft lbs...

I have attached a dyno graph of a recent 535d in our workshop which had this modification.

Best wishes,


Stan Ward
Technical Director

Unit 10, 36 Dalziel Road,
Hillington Park Industrial Estate
Glasgow
G52 4NN

Phone/Fax: 0845 409 4567
Mobile: 07595 423160
www.ecotune-scotland.co.uk
Ecotune is a trading name of Ecotune UK Ltd registered UK company number 06807470.
All prices include VAT at the standard rate and is charged where applicable.
VAT registration number 985 1795 63.
All brands displayed are property of their respective owners
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      12-05-2012, 09:26 AM   #2
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Here's their dyno related to the email above:

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      12-05-2012, 11:01 AM   #3
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Does anyone have a secret for finding the part number for the U.S. downpipe? I've looked on realoem, and I can't find it!

Axel, would the replacement downpipe also replace the DPF, and thus be one continuous length? I think the tuner in Canada keeps the external portion of the DPF, but replaces the inside with a through pipe, but I might be wrong about that.
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      12-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #4
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Correct me if Im wrong if the downpipe is somewhat like the 02-06 Mini Suprecharger and has a MESH kind of, then it can be stipped from outside in.

On other hand I i dont know the other specs your inquired me DD, send email to ECOTUNE ok
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      12-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #5
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The downpipe from ecotune is to replace DPF AND downpipe all the way from turbo to the middlepipe og the exhaust.
Thats actually why I want it since the DPF acts as stuffing in the exhaust not letting the air pass easy.
According to Promotec i South Africa a possible gain of 30hp on my car is possible by removing the DPF and map it accordingly.
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      12-05-2012, 11:38 AM   #6
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Holy Crap 30 hp thats a lot for a PIPE!!!
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      12-05-2012, 12:08 PM   #7
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I do not believe the DPF is as much of a restriction as you think it is. Case in point, another forum member removed his DPF and aside from the increase in soot being emitted from his tailpipe he stated he did NOT notice any increase in power. In fact he said he thought his car felt a bit slower. I seem to recall he also posted a before and after dyno graph which seemed to confirm his feelings. At the end of the day he ended up reinstalling his DPF. (for the life of me I cannot find that post)
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      12-05-2012, 12:15 PM   #8
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@cssnms
I have several sources saying it DOES have an effect. Promotec from where I bought my bigger IC has done some testing on it. Without DPF, bigger IC and a remap the 330d delivers 300hp/700+nm. With DPF, bigger IC and remap they typically delivers 260-280hp and 600-620nm.
My own has been dynoed several times to 265-270hp and 615-620nm and I still have the DPF installed.
Ecotune who has the DPF removal pipe has the same experience.
You DON'T get any gain by only removing the DPF. You need to do a remap.
If your friend did not do a remap I can understand why he did'nt get any more power.
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      12-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anielsen71 View Post
@cssnms
I have several sources saying it DOES have an effect. Promotec from where I bought my bigger IC has done some testing on it. Without DPF, bigger IC and a remap the 330d delivers 300hp/700+nm. With DPF, bigger IC and remap they typically delivers 260-280hp and 600-620nm.
My own has been dynoed several times to 265-270hp and 615-620nm and I still have the DPF installed.
Ecotune who has the DPF removal pipe has the same experience.
You DON'T get any gain by only removing the DPF. You need to do a remap.
If your friend did not do a remap I can understand why he did'nt get any more power.
Okay to be clear, you have not removed your DPF and comparied the results (before and after) on the exact same dyno, under similar atmospheric conditions at a shop independent of the tuner? Right?

I do not doubt what some tuner is telling you about the gains to be had when removing the DPF in conjunction with a tune they sell, I just doubt removing it improves HP/TRQ (40hp/100 torques!) whether a car has a tune or not.

Think about it,,, what your shop is saying is, if your car has a tune and a larger IC that by simply removing the DPF your car will gain 40hp and 100 ft lbs of torque! This would imply that the DPF IS a restriction regardless of whether a car has a tune and as such I would expect to see SOME improvement in a car without a tune.

Arguably increasing the down pipe diameter can influence horsepower output in particular when engine temps are running hotter and there is more back pressure, but frankly speaking I do not think the stock downpipe/DPF will have a significant restriction effect on airflow(because that's what we are really talking about here) when running a tune that only generates an additional +/- 60hp - 75hp. I believe engine output would need to increase substantially in order to exceed the flow capacity of the stock downpipe in order to see any significant gains from removing the DPF, which seems to be supported by the other member's findings.

Call me a cynic until proven otherwise - and I am not talking about showing me some tuner's dyno graph.

Last edited by cssnms; 12-05-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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      12-05-2012, 03:17 PM   #10
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Nope I'm not saying that I gain 40hp by removing the DPF only.
Im saying that I now have a car with DPF and a tune. That car delivers aprox 265hp/615nm.
When I remove the DPF and do another tune I will according to several tuners that I will not use anyway (They do not sell me anything no matter what they tell me since one tuner is aprox 1000km away and the other tuner is aprox 9000km away), but use my own guy here in Denmark that have been tuning for me until now, I will gain aprox 30hp and aprox 70nm.
The point being that the tuners telling me about the powergains will not under any circumstances have any chance of selling me the tuneup. One of them might be able to sell me the DPF remove pipe. Nothing more. the actual tuneup or maping(call it whatever you like) will be done by my regular tune guy that have tuned my car until now.
You are right: DPF removal alone DOES NOT DO IT.
DPF removal AND a remaping that deactivates the ECU's settings for error messages and changes the maping of air and fuel does the trick.
This spring I WILL compare befor eand after dynos at a shop independent of the tuner and the seller of the IC and the seller of the DPF removal pipe. Have patience ;-)
I will ask Rolf at promotec for the dynos where the DPF and remapping is the only difference. But that is at the tuner and not an independent shop.
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      12-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #11
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Tell me how this reprogramming or tune to remove the DPF and physically removing the DPF goes abut increasing hp by another 40 and beyond what is currently avaialable on the market by any tuner? The power has to come from somewhere so if it does not come from removing a restriction/increasing flow to allow hot exhaust gases to better escape then where is it coming from???

Believe me I wish it were that simple, I really do.
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      12-05-2012, 03:39 PM   #12
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The powergain is coming from the removing the restriction in the exhaust made by the DPF.
The DPF woks as a plug in the exhaust not letting the air leave the turbo fast enough.
Without being an engineer in this, I think it sounds plausible enough putting a plug in the exhaust right after the turbo will not do anything good for the power, and removing it can only have positive effect. Of course one needs to let the engine management know that there are no filter and at the same time program it for the changed airflow.
Being able to get the hot air away from the turbo will also mean that the exhaust side of the turbo will not be as hot as with the filter in place, meaning that the turbo should last longer.

Btw....any tuner I know of can provide you with downpipes for petrol cars getting rid of the first catalythic converters and by that promise a powergain. Look at wagner tuning. Look at burger tuning. Look at HPF. They all can provide you with other downpipes that removes the first set of catalythic converters. Same deal as with the DPF removal pipe.
Strangely enough not any tuner can provide us with DPF removal downpipes for our diesel cars. Actually I have only seen them at Ecotune here in Europe.
I think that the reason that the US based tuners don't have them, is that the tuning scene for european diesel cars in US is very limited. Don't know why...
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      12-05-2012, 03:49 PM   #13
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I know it's a bit off topic and without any proof, but I just found another tuner saying theres a difference with or without DPF.
http://www.hybridturbos.com/hybrid-t...-turbocharger/

In this case it's a difference in powergains changing the turbo with or without DPF.
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      12-05-2012, 03:56 PM   #14
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So the dpf is a "plug" now, but removing this "plug" has no effect on engine output unless one is running a tune that effectively bumps hp 60-70 and after said dpf is removed it will unleash all of this untapped power??? Well then that gets back my original point,,, regarding the dpf and just how restrictive it is or not as the case may be. Sorry not buying the massive gain claims just yet. Waiting anxiously for your dyno results.

Last edited by cssnms; 12-05-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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      12-05-2012, 04:00 PM   #15
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The hell with it. I'm ordering the pipe now, then we'll see in a few weeks.
Plug, restriction, call it wahtever you want.....Done arguing.

And where does the 60-70hp suddently come from?
I have ealier said aprox 30hp...
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      12-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #16
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I actually found some dyno graphs from Promotec.
http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/showthr...d=33938&page=2

One of the cars, Mr Arbee is a user in here.
Of course this is on a duno at the company that has done the tune and not at an independant shop. be aware that the numbers are all at the wheels.

After I have installed my DPF removal pipe I will have a dyno at an independant shop that has dynoed my car twice before, once with a tune up and once with a tune up after adding the bigger IC.
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      12-05-2012, 04:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anielsen71 View Post
The hell with it. I'm ordering the pipe now, then we'll see in a few weeks.
Plug, restriction, call it wahtever you want.....Done arguing.

And where does the 60-70hp suddently come from?
I have ealier said aprox 30hp...
Nobody is arguing just not buying into the tuner "hype." Frankly I hope it's true, although I am not to keen on the idea of black smoke.

Fyi - the 60-70whp (obviously a bit more at the crank) increase I referenced above was a general reference to the gains obtained from most of the tumes available on the market. And the point I was trying to make is that I am of the belief that one would need to gain substantially more than that before the dpf/down pipe proved to be a restriction.

Again, very anxious to see your results.
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      12-05-2012, 04:30 PM   #18
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I am not too keen on the idea of the smoke either.
But after reading a review from a 335d user in UK that could not see any big difference in smoke and after speaking to my tune guy who told me he can control most of that in the mapping I not that scared.
Actually he told me, my tune only gives aprox 7% more fuel than OEM. And that has given a powergain of aprox 35hp and aprox 100nm.
And yes, some tuners do promise a lot of powergain with small adjustments or changes. I have heard of tuners here in denmark saying they can get up to +60hp only by remap the ECU. That I think is doubtfull.
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      12-05-2012, 05:30 PM   #19
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Some inspiration for some of your and to give give you a better idea of the smoke output at least on a 335d.


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      12-05-2012, 05:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anielsen71 View Post
But after reading a review from a 335d user in UK that could not see any big difference in smoke and after speaking to my tune guy who told me he can control most of that in the mapping I not that scared.
Does your tuner plan to block off the EGR valve and code out that circuit? I wonder if that would aid in power purely by removing the addition of the hot EGR air being mixed into the intake. Not to mention increase longevity of the engine.
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      12-06-2012, 02:27 AM   #21
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This is a video of a 318d with DPF removed and a remap. No smoke reving it...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/GiwXt2FBUHs

http://www.youtube.com/embed/y-KsQ2wRpfc
This one has not only had the DPF removed but also had a serirous tune. Rumors saying it's got aprox 450hp. Not really to compare to just remove DPF and remap.

@DieselDiner
Actually I dont know. I'l ask him when we map the car.
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      12-06-2012, 08:30 AM   #22
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Damn I posted this and its created a bitchin session, LOL. Anyway fuck the smoke Im willing to deal with I dont know of the guy behind me when I leave DUSTED!!!!!
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