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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > ECS brake rotors for BMW: MADE IN …CHINA !!!



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      12-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #23
annalisa_ferri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRetep View Post
tl;dr: you fucked up, should have done your research BEFORE you bought.
I admit I should have asked where they actually manufacture the rotors BEFORE. I'm not trying to hide my errors.

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ECS sells good quality shit
That's by far the best I have heard...can I change the title of my thread ???
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      12-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #24
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Taiwan has some pretty top notch quality stuff and China is a hit or a miss. It all depends on the factory.

You would be SURPRISED to find out that so many of these brake and performance parts companies we think are EURO or AMERICAN indeed do outsource to China and Taiwan.

If you are buying 2-piece rotors, there's a very good chance they are coming from Asia.
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      12-05-2012, 06:43 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annalisa_ferri View Post
I admit I should have asked where they actually manufacture the rotors BEFORE. I'm not trying to hide my errors.



That's by far the best I have heard...can I change the title of my thread ???
We all make mistakes. and yes i really do mean "good quality shit" lol, kinda like Weezer (the band) They're pretty alright. Better than most but not the best.

Good luck in your search for the brakes you're looking for
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      12-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #26
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Taiwan has some pretty top notch quality stuff and China is a hit or a miss. It all depends on the factory.
The problem is that I'm not very prone to discover it was a miss at my next hard braking...
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      12-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #27
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How about you actually try them out and see if they suck?
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      12-05-2012, 07:47 PM   #28
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face it. Ten years from now we'll all be working at Starbucks serving lattes to our foreign landlords.
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      12-05-2012, 08:43 PM   #29
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No problem with ECS C/S or quality. I recently replaced the rear rotors on my E92 only to discover after the install that the inner diameter of the "hat" was incorrect and my parking brake would not engage. Called to inquire via their tech support. They realized their mistake and shipped replacements. Rotors have bedded in well and I do not believe that in five years they will look any worse than the factory pieces did.
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      12-05-2012, 09:45 PM   #30
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thank you for this! i was thinking to buy from ecs and have it shipped to a relative in the states since their shipping cost are ridiculous.

question though. and this is where i think it might be ok, not big on but ok,

manufactured in taiwan/china but tested in the states?
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      12-05-2012, 09:50 PM   #31
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Don't freak out by the fact that they were made in China and Taiwan. Keep in mine that almost everything in the computer that you are posting from was probably made in China.

I used to be in the hard drive business. You can't believe how incredibly complex an average, run-of-the-mill hard drive is. I mean, the tolerances are insane. The technology is ridiculously advanced. And they are mostly made in China and SE Asia (but mostly China).

Now if they were made in Somalia....
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      12-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 620BMW325i View Post
OP... If you arn't questioning their performance or quality of their rotors... Then whats the problem? Who gives a shit where they come from? I mean if anything... Your kind of crazy to buy "US products" and pay $230 just in shipping when you live in GERMANY lol...
+1

Why would you ever spend that much on shipping "pretty" non-OEM or no high performance parts is beyond me.

Test them out and report back. Right now you are assuming that they are sub-standard quality. Take a look at rusty OEM brake calipers. Is that acceptable on 50K+ car? Still, they perform well.

Since we live in a world of global trade and economy, companies have operations across the world. Brands are not tied to mother contries any more since they started outsourcing. As an example, check out Harley Davidson manfacturing sites. Also check out BMW manufacturing sites.

I bought several items from ECS and found them to have excellent deals and great customer service. I bought my front rotors from them but they are OEM z4 35is since I didn't want to deal (accept the risk) with potential issues.

You gotta pay to play!
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      12-06-2012, 03:09 AM   #33
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I bought front rotors break pads and rear pads from them had them for 1 summer so far no problem. Now days everything is made in china.
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      12-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #34
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How about you actually try them out and see if they suck?
It is for sure an option, the first that I had in mind. But I have to say is quite an expensive one, considering the price I paid for the kit (900+ bucks)
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      12-06-2012, 04:26 AM   #35
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face it. Ten years from now we'll all be working at Starbucks serving lattes to our foreign landlords.
True!
In the meanwhile I prefer to support internal products
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      12-06-2012, 04:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wilson7136 View Post
No problem with ECS C/S or quality. I recently replaced the rear rotors on my E92 only to discover after the install that the inner diameter of the "hat" was incorrect and my parking brake would not engage. Called to inquire via their tech support. They realized their mistake and shipped replacements. Rotors have bedded in well and I do not believe that in five years they will look any worse than the factory pieces did.
As I wrote already, I was overall happy with their C/S; they were fast and comprehensive at the end.
And I'm sure they have good products in their range; my purpose is not to slap them.
But, once again, I want to stress that imho it is not fair to write a lot of "made in the US" or so when the item is actually produced in the states, and simply forget the country of origin in case the item is outsourced. While this is totally secondary for floor mats or light bulbs, I do care of where/how/by whom my brake rotors are manufactured.
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      12-06-2012, 04:53 AM   #37
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question though. and this is where i think it might be ok, not big on but ok, manufactured in taiwan/china but tested in the states?
You catch a very good point, which is being missed by many readers.
Where is the quality control/test performed?
I think we cannot conclude about this, based on the answer we have had up to now.
My understanding is the following:
  • Engineering: ECS states it is done in the USA. I'm happy with it
  • Manufacturing of the rotor blank: ECS states it can be done in US, Italy, Brazil, China or Taiwan, depending on the application. Here we have the 1st problem: also Brembo has plants in China; the difference here is made by how you control what is done in the plant. Despite somebody said that to build a brake rotor "is not rocket science", believe me guys there is a lot to take care of when producing a metal alloy, when forming the piece of metal, when heat treating it, and working to the desired shape. As far as I know, this is not done by ECS people at the factory (wherever it is), they state the quality control is made once the blanks reach ECS for final reworking. Anybody with a minimum experience in production processes can understand that the amount and quality of checks that one can perform outside the production line is very limited. I have to assume that ECS relyes on the contracts with the suppliers and the certificates the chinese or taiwanese produce to ensure that the manufacturing and first part of machining is done properly, then supplementing this with some kind of check once the raws are shipped to the US
  • Final reworking: ECS states is it done in the US by qualified companies. This seems to include the drilling, the slotting, and the coating (if applicable). I'm happy with it,,but does it include coulpling of rotors and hats? Does it include testing of the final item? What are exactly the checks that are performed on the raws coming from Asia? I still don't know.

A final side note: I may understand that many vendors claim that nobody declares exactly who are the suppliers and where the brakes are actually produced. I may understand that it sounds stupid to be the only company to declare exactly the full origins. I don't have anything against ECS. I only know that I have 4 rotor still in the box with a "made in China" stamp on them. That's it. What the other companies in the tuning panorama do, I don't know and I don't care, it is not my business.
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      12-06-2012, 07:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. G View Post
Taiwan has some pretty top notch quality stuff and China is a hit or a miss. It all depends on the factory.

You would be SURPRISED to find out that so many of these brake and performance parts companies we think are EURO or AMERICAN indeed do outsource to China and Taiwan.

If you are buying 2-piece rotors, there's a very good chance they are coming from Asia.
+1

My Iphone is design in US, manufactured in China, which owns by a Taiwanese. Love~~~~d it .
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      12-06-2012, 10:49 AM   #39
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Just to reiterate some points here:
Our 2-piece rotors are manufactured largely in the United States, with some applications being manufactured in Taiwan. Regardless of manufacturing location, our rotors are designed in-house by the engineers in our Research & Development Department. We are dedicated to the quality of our product line and invests countless hours of engineering, testing, and quality control to ensure our products meet our standards.



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      12-06-2012, 11:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSTuning View Post
Our 2-piece rotors are manufactured largely in the United States, with some applications being manufactured in Taiwan.
Ok, I was the unlucky guy who took the taiwanese...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSTuning View Post
Regardless of manufacturing location, our rotors are designed in-house by the engineers in our Research & Development Department.
Super! But excellent engineering can be easily blown away by inconsistent manufacturing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECSTuning View Post
We are dedicated to the quality of our product line and invests countless hours of engineering, testing, and quality control to ensure our products meet our standards.
It is so easy, then: please explain more in detail what you actually do once you receive the rotor blanks from wherever outside the US:

  • how do you check that the correct alloy has been used
  • how do you ensure that correct forming has been performed in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever foundry
  • how do you verify that the proper heat treatment has been applied in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever plant
  • how do you check that blanks have been handled properly
  • and so on...

As you can see, it'a all about details.
Answer to this and, be sure, I will be happy.
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      12-06-2012, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annalisa_ferri View Post

  • how do you check that the correct alloy has been used
  • how do you ensure that correct forming has been performed in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever foundry
  • how do you verify that the proper heat treatment has been applied in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever plant
  • how do you check that blanks have been handled properly
  • and so on...

As you can see, it'a all about details.
Answer to this and, be sure, I will be happy.
how do you ensure all this in the US? Have you heard of quality control and those kinds of checks? OP you sound butt hurt, get over it, I would be concerned if they were shit quality or you were having issues. Which it appears you are not, time to move on. As previously said, you are in europe why not buy locally?
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      12-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #42
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how do you ensure all this in the US? As previously said, you are in europe why not buy locally?
I've been working in the US and know well the quality standards which are used there.
Not the same is done in other places, China and Taiwan included (not always, of course).
I wonder if you ever heard about ISO 140001 or ISO 9001...
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      12-06-2012, 12:53 PM   #43
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I don't blame you for not wanting Chinese rotors on your car.

Rolls Royce Canada, manufacturer of engines as found on aircraft like the Gulfstream G-IV outsources their turbine blades to China.
68% of the blade assemblies that pass Chinese QC and ship will not pass QC at Rolls Royce. That is almost 7 out of 10 blade assemblies go right in the trash.
And these are 6 figure prices each.

Just out of curiosity though - there wasn't anything similar in the Netherlands or Germany?
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      12-06-2012, 01:08 PM   #44
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I don't blame you for not wanting Chinese rotors on your car.

Rolls Royce Canada, manufacturer of engines as found on aircraft like the Gulfstream G-IV outsources their turbine blades to China.
68% of the blade assemblies that pass Chinese QC and ship will not pass QC at Rolls Royce. That is almost 7 out of 10 blade assemblies go right in the trash.
And these are 6 figure prices each.

Just out of curiosity though - there wasn't anything similar in the Netherlands or Germany?
...and probably they make money anyway from it!

You see, somebody understands EXACTLY what I mean.

Regarding the European kits, i have to say that many other options are available (e.g., the BMW Performance rotors), but to say the truth no kit offers the same specs/price ratio and is available for both front and rear from the same vendor. Brembo BBK (or similar kits) was not an option due to the cost (in excess of 3000 usd). The favourable exchange ratio USD/EUR had a role, too. And, finally, I've experienced always exceptional results with "made in USA" stuff.
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