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      11-27-2012, 11:39 AM   #45
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I am talking to a local shop to run a boroscope in my intake tract and cylinders. I am very curious to see what is going on inside.
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      11-27-2012, 11:49 AM   #46
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great see if you can send pics and mileage on your car
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      11-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #47
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Good thinking cssnms.

Got the Phone call from dealer diagnosis on my car today stating that diagnosis was inconclusive, they performed recall (of the recall), but it had more codes than those which would have been triggerd by the recall alone. Testing failed to have the SES repeat after clearing out the codes and putting it through their "red test". I should have the work tickets tomorrow at pickup and will check for details, but it sounds like a "bring it back when it comes back on" sort of deal. Not sure if it is at all related to the topic (carbon) but thought it worth mentioning. I put about 30-40k miles per year on my primary vehicles, so it shouldn't take long for me to rack up the kind of miles where a tear-down, inspect, & clean of the manifold may be useful.
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      12-03-2012, 09:33 PM   #48
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Why can't we just disable the EGR? I have a Duramax and I can just unplug a connector and it stops recirculating. It throughs a code, but who cares, just plug it back in before going to the dealer and clear the code. Anyone?
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      12-03-2012, 09:49 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duramax
Why can't we just disable the EGR? I have a Duramax and I can just unplug a connector and it stops recirculating. It throughs a code, but who cares, just plug it back in before going to the dealer and clear the code. Anyone?
If you drive most of the time on the highway then the EGR is close, which is a good thing.
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      12-03-2012, 10:01 PM   #50
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That doesn't make sense to me. I would think cruising on the highway at 70 getting 35mpg, there is less load on the engine than when starting/stopping in the city. Do you know what data the computer uses to shut the EGR off such at over 60mph or load > 20%
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      12-03-2012, 10:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duramax
That doesn't make sense to me. I would think cruising on the highway at 70 getting 35mpg, there is less load on the engine than when starting/stopping in the city. Do you know what data the computer uses to shut the EGR off such at over 60mph or load > 20%
I dont! But i was told so by a reputable shop.
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      12-04-2012, 05:32 AM   #52
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This is what happened to me:

Amigos I can attest to this supposedly carbon build up this last saturday as I was going to the 1/2 mile race I had the ENGINE light come up and man i almost SHEIT on myself. I called my mechanic as he was going to race my car for me since I have a broken hand. He told that that occurs also with the JBD on some of his clients. and informed me not to worry I stopped turn car off and back on and it was GONE!! OK I deided later to press on it and GUESS WHAT? Not only the ENGINE light come but also the damn ESE light F'me now Im pissed and scared. I stopped and turned off and back on AGAIN! and the engine light gone but not the SES.

The car was running quite VAGUELY but I realized the the day before I had put on 3 ounces of Amsoil DIESEL injector cleaner and 3ounces of AMSOIL CETANE Booster, I guess all the SOOT was coming off since it had been a month since I had stopped using DIESEL Injector Cleaner. Anyway, my friend drove the 1/2 mile race and he told he clocked 150 mph at the end of the track but forgot to clock at the 1/2 marker(he did it twice) he was VERY IMpressed with the DIESEL, he had had many gassers during his youth and was ALL smiles with the DIESEL. My car clocked the first time 120 mph which I found very disturbing since I had a better program come to find out the systme was not calibrated weel and many competirors were complaining.

Anyway, once I took the car and drove to my uncles house I noticed the car was eager and loose, i looked at my girlfriend and told her "Hey something is wrong with the car, she REPLIED by saying The car is responding better!!" I drove the car to the 1/2 mile race went to my uncles ate and got drunk partied at nite, next day drove to the other extreme of the island and went to see my friends game and drank and ate an came home and looked at the tnak and guess what? 1/2 tank on 243 miles, PRICELES!!!! Now my girlfriend wants a DIESEL!!!

P.S. The SES light went off the next day at my uncles
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      12-05-2012, 09:10 AM   #53
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Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon buildup. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

Internal glazing and carbon buildup is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).

Running an engine under low loads causes low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing since this relies on the gas pressure to force them against the oil film on the bores to form the seal. Low cylinder pressures causes poor combustion and resultant low combustion pressures and temperatures.

This poor combustion leads to soot formation and unburnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, which causes a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the initial low pressure. Glazing occurs when hot combustion gases blow past the now poorly-sealing piston rings, causing the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls to 'flash burn', creating an enamel-like glaze which smooths the bore and removes the effect of the intricate pattern of honing marks machined into the bore surface which are there to hold oil and return it to the crankcase via the scraper ring.

Hard carbon also forms from poor combustion and this is highly abrasive and scrapes the honing marks on the bores leading to bore polishing, which then leads to increased oil consumption (blue smoking) and yet further loss of pressure, since the oil film trapped in the honing marks is intended to maintain the piston seal and pressures.

Unburnt fuel then leaks past the piston rings and contaminates the lubricating oil. Poor combustion causes the injectors to become clogged with soot, causing further deterioration in combustion and black smoking.

The problem is increased further with the formation of acids in the engine oil caused by condensed water and combustion by-products which would normally boil off at higher temperatures. This acidic build-up in the lubricating oil causes slow but ultimately damaging wear to bearing surfaces.

This cycle of degradation means that the engine soon becomes irreversibly damaged and may not start at all and will no longer be able to reach full power when required.

Under-loaded running inevitably causes not only white smoke from unburnt fuel but over time will be joined by blue smoke of burnt lubricating oil leaking past the damaged piston rings, and black smoke caused by damaged injectors. This pollution is unacceptable to the authorities and neighbors.

Once glazing or carbon build up has occurred, it can only be cured by stripping down the engine and re-boring the cylinder bores, machining new honing marks and stripping, cleaning and de-coking combustion chambers, fuel injector nozzles and valves. If detected in the early stages, running an engine at maximum load to raise the internal pressures and temperatures allows the piston rings to scrape glaze off the bores and allows carbon buildup to be burnt off. However, if glazing has progressed to the stage where the piston rings have seized into their grooves, this will not have any effect.

The situation can be prevented by carefully selecting the generator set in accordance with manufacturers printed guidelines.

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing.[16][17][18]
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      12-05-2012, 01:41 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dM View Post
Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon buildup. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

...

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing.[16][17][18]
Thanks, dM. Citation?
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      12-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dM View Post
Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon buildup. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

Internal glazing and carbon buildup is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).

Running an engine under low loads causes low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing since this relies on the gas pressure to force them against the oil film on the bores to form the seal. Low cylinder pressures causes poor combustion and resultant low combustion pressures and temperatures.

This poor combustion leads to soot formation and unburnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, which causes a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the initial low pressure. Glazing occurs when hot combustion gases blow past the now poorly-sealing piston rings, causing the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls to 'flash burn', creating an enamel-like glaze which smooths the bore and removes the effect of the intricate pattern of honing marks machined into the bore surface which are there to hold oil and return it to the crankcase via the scraper ring.

Hard carbon also forms from poor combustion and this is highly abrasive and scrapes the honing marks on the bores leading to bore polishing, which then leads to increased oil consumption (blue smoking) and yet further loss of pressure, since the oil film trapped in the honing marks is intended to maintain the piston seal and pressures.

Unburnt fuel then leaks past the piston rings and contaminates the lubricating oil. Poor combustion causes the injectors to become clogged with soot, causing further deterioration in combustion and black smoking.

The problem is increased further with the formation of acids in the engine oil caused by condensed water and combustion by-products which would normally boil off at higher temperatures. This acidic build-up in the lubricating oil causes slow but ultimately damaging wear to bearing surfaces.

This cycle of degradation means that the engine soon becomes irreversibly damaged and may not start at all and will no longer be able to reach full power when required.

Under-loaded running inevitably causes not only white smoke from unburnt fuel but over time will be joined by blue smoke of burnt lubricating oil leaking past the damaged piston rings, and black smoke caused by damaged injectors. This pollution is unacceptable to the authorities and neighbors.

Once glazing or carbon build up has occurred, it can only be cured by stripping down the engine and re-boring the cylinder bores, machining new honing marks and stripping, cleaning and de-coking combustion chambers, fuel injector nozzles and valves. If detected in the early stages, running an engine at maximum load to raise the internal pressures and temperatures allows the piston rings to scrape glaze off the bores and allows carbon buildup to be burnt off. However, if glazing has progressed to the stage where the piston rings have seized into their grooves, this will not have any effect.

The situation can be prevented by carefully selecting the generator set in accordance with manufacturers printed guidelines.

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing.[16][17][18]
+1. ACEA B/E specs test for this.
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      12-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 335dM View Post
If you drive most of the time on the highway then the EGR is close, which is a good thing.
Measured data on my car shows extremely heavy utilization of EGR under steady state driviving conditions, including highway. Some example data on the first page here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=598240

The only time I've consistantly seen the EGR closed for long periods is during DPF regen's.
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      12-05-2012, 02:53 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dM View Post
Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon buildup. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

Internal glazing and carbon buildup is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).

Running an engine under low loads causes low cylinder pressures and consequent poor piston ring sealing since this relies on the gas pressure to force them against the oil film on the bores to form the seal. Low cylinder pressures causes poor combustion and resultant low combustion pressures and temperatures.

This poor combustion leads to soot formation and unburnt fuel residues which clogs and gums piston rings, which causes a further drop in sealing efficiency and exacerbates the initial low pressure. Glazing occurs when hot combustion gases blow past the now poorly-sealing piston rings, causing the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls to 'flash burn', creating an enamel-like glaze which smooths the bore and removes the effect of the intricate pattern of honing marks machined into the bore surface which are there to hold oil and return it to the crankcase via the scraper ring.

Hard carbon also forms from poor combustion and this is highly abrasive and scrapes the honing marks on the bores leading to bore polishing, which then leads to increased oil consumption (blue smoking) and yet further loss of pressure, since the oil film trapped in the honing marks is intended to maintain the piston seal and pressures.

Unburnt fuel then leaks past the piston rings and contaminates the lubricating oil. Poor combustion causes the injectors to become clogged with soot, causing further deterioration in combustion and black smoking.

The problem is increased further with the formation of acids in the engine oil caused by condensed water and combustion by-products which would normally boil off at higher temperatures. This acidic build-up in the lubricating oil causes slow but ultimately damaging wear to bearing surfaces.

This cycle of degradation means that the engine soon becomes irreversibly damaged and may not start at all and will no longer be able to reach full power when required.

Under-loaded running inevitably causes not only white smoke from unburnt fuel but over time will be joined by blue smoke of burnt lubricating oil leaking past the damaged piston rings, and black smoke caused by damaged injectors. This pollution is unacceptable to the authorities and neighbors.

Once glazing or carbon build up has occurred, it can only be cured by stripping down the engine and re-boring the cylinder bores, machining new honing marks and stripping, cleaning and de-coking combustion chambers, fuel injector nozzles and valves. If detected in the early stages, running an engine at maximum load to raise the internal pressures and temperatures allows the piston rings to scrape glaze off the bores and allows carbon buildup to be burnt off. However, if glazing has progressed to the stage where the piston rings have seized into their grooves, this will not have any effect.

The situation can be prevented by carefully selecting the generator set in accordance with manufacturers printed guidelines.

For emergency only sets, it may be impractical to use the supported load for testing. A temporary or permanent load bank can be used testing. Sometimes the switchgear can be designed to allow the set to feed power into the grid for load testing.[16][17][18]
What's the purpose of this thread? You claimed no carbon (=suit) build up on your engine in undefined mileage. You didn't answer my post #20 as how you established that.

I tried to educate people in post #38 (or so), but seems a lost attempt.

Now you're about glazing (nice quote though), which has no reasonable relation to suit build up. Glazing causes blow by.
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      12-05-2012, 04:00 PM   #58
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To answer your question, I first scoped through the throttle valve using a mini scope bought at Costco but couldn't go very far since its only like 10 inches long!
Then I asked BMW to scope it as stated in another thread. Yesterday the SA told me they scoped it and found only a bit of oil then I asked to speak to the mechanic and he said that he didn't do it because carbon build up in diesel is not common!
I was angry but now, I'm in communication with BMW rep. and I will ask to do some preventive maintenance since there is a lot of people having this problem. Now I'm back where I started! Waiting for answer from them!
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      12-05-2012, 04:50 PM   #59
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Ok, seen your other thread. Simplest way of looking at how bad it is (it won't be great anyway), is to:
- take of intake hose to throttle valve
- front of (closed) valve will be clean, but oily due to engine breather (depending on loads of factors)
- slowly push throttle valve to open 90 degrees (you're pushing against a geared electric motor
- You can now see the state of the back of the valve, and with a mirror & flashlight the EGR mixer. That wil give you a good indication of what the rest of the intake is.
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      12-05-2012, 04:51 PM   #60
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What's the purpose of this thread? You claimed no carbon (=suit) build up on your engine in undefined mileage. You didn't answer my post #20 as how you established that.

I tried to educate people in post #38 (or so), but seems a lost attempt...
See...now I'm confused. Was that a crack at dM or the masses in general?

If the latter, no need to be a bitter bus driver, buddy. I'd've thanked you for the Pierburg marketing piece, but I got distracted reading it (good read, thanks for posting it). It's like cooking a great meal where nobody tells you how good it is because they are too busy stuffing their faces...plus I'm an unappreciative bastard anyway.
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      12-05-2012, 04:53 PM   #61
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Ok, seen your other thread. Simplest way of looking at how bad it is (it won't be great anyway), is to:
- take of intake hose to throttle valve
- front of (closed) valve will be clean, but oily due to engine breather (depending on loads of factors)
- slowly push throttle valve to open 90 degrees (you're pushing against a geared electric motor
- You can now see the state of the back of the valve, and with a mirror & flashlight the EGR mixer. That wil give you a good indication of what the rest of the intake is.
Good knowledge. I like the simple alternative approach without needing to source the boroscope.
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      12-06-2012, 02:26 AM   #62
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Quote:
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Diesel engines can suffer damage as a result of misapplication or misuse - namely internal glazing (occasionally referred to as bore glazing or piling) and carbon buildup. Ideally, diesel engines should be run at least 60% to 75% of their maximum rated load. Short periods of low load running are permissible providing the set is brought up to full load, or close to full load on a regular basis.

Internal glazing and carbon buildup is due to prolonged periods of running at low speeds or low loads. Such conditions may occur when an engine is left idling as a 'standby' generating unit, ready to run up when needed, (misuse); if the engine powering the set is over-powered (misapplication) for the load applied to it, causing the diesel unit to be under-loaded, or as is very often the case, when sets are started and run off load as a test (misuse).[16][17][18]
I guess I am going to have to go on more road trips. Fortunately, the first 75k miles on my 09 were 90%+ highway. But in the last 7k miles it has been reversed, mostly city.

I have started using that Amsoil injector cleaner. It's recommended 1 oz for every three gallons of diesel, so I picked up a 4 oz and a 1 oz bottle from the container shop (so I dont have to measure out the right amount at the pump). I fill the containers before I leave for the gas station, then I use the plastic adapter which came with the car to pour the injector cleaner, then fuel it up to mix around the injector cleaner.
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      12-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #63
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quasimodem You read my thread, the injector cleaner will do its job, it did for me!! Car is running better than before the 1/2 mile race
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      12-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #64
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here's my throttle valve. It was open, i tried to close it which resulted in the black finger prints. Good news to me, all dry. But obviously the back of it is black.. I have custom OCC using nano tech coalescent filtration, I will be stuck for a spare filter.. Without an OCC you can expect (clean) oil in front of the valve.

Couldn't get the camera to display the EGR mixer really good, but that is the tube behind the valve. Dry and grey.. I'd suspected it to be black. Would need a boroscope to be sure but looks like my intake is clean

If you have a diesel, you need to get mileage on it. If you do limited mileage, then OBD monitoring does help to understand when in EGR mode, and when regenerations take place etc. My device works great and suits me. This is way nicer:
http://www.awron.de/hauptnavigation/...sional-diesel/

but they don't have an automatic alarm to show you a regen takes place. Mine does. These people can easily provide an auto pop-up, but it's like$800? already with the DPF module
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      11-28-2013, 03:03 PM   #65
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reviving this topic.

Would this work, or is it a hoax?

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      11-29-2013, 02:04 PM   #66
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Flooring 425ft/lbs all the time during city driving isn't best idea either.

I disagree, I do just this with substantially more torque and horsepower on a regular basis.
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