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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > birds b3.5 suspension, roll bars, LSD



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      03-31-2012, 04:23 AM   #1
crypticc
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birds b3.5 suspension, roll bars, LSD

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc
...nervously travelling to pickup my b3.5.

Aside from much other's earlier pov I haven't seen many recent posts about this. I'll let you all know first thoughts.

Chris
First impression... Wish I did this sooner. If you've switched from RFT to non RFT, you will recall the transformation in grip and ride. This is about the same step up in a straight line. You might also recall that feeling of firmness that you may have liked replaced with a slight squidginess due to softer side walls. That has gone now, and replaced with a certain tautness but compliant at the same time. Driving around north of m25 you'll recognize the state of recently worked on black top..tramlining and bob over imperfect roads are gone. joints in the road pass by with a reassuring Thwump thump, rather the previous Bobble Bobble.

However that's part of the story. Just brief drive on twisty roads you can feel things improve further when the suspension loads up..the drive on the correct wheel going around the corner. The lack of roll
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      03-31-2012, 04:41 AM   #2
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There is a small amount of driveline shunt going into first on occasion. A slight tap as the slack in the drive is taken up. Will need to assess things to see if i get used to it when my senses are not on "high alert". That aside, I recommend this upgrade to everyone.
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      03-31-2012, 07:35 AM   #3
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Hey Crypticc, so you had the tires changed? as well as suspension and most importantly the mechanical Slip Diff, How does it feel? have you loaded the car heavily enough to feel any difference?
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      03-31-2012, 09:14 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awfully_Polite
Hey Crypticc, so you had the tires changed? as well as suspension and most importantly the mechanical Slip Diff, How does it feel? have you loaded the car heavily enough to feel any difference?
Yeah.

Once loaded it is sublime. Throttle out of a corner and you can feel the power on the outside wheel pivoting the car around you (normally either dtc intervenes or if disabled spin of inside wheel ensues). Roll bars dial out roll and and understeer.

Power in a straight line? A little wiggle and off you go!

I think they could tighten up the front, but if that is the compromise to make it drivable in UK B roads, I'm all for it. Do you know that road that passes from m25 towards London, parallel to a2 but via Erith? Ex marsh land and sunken road all over. Roundabouts cut up to hell. No problem. :-)
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      03-31-2012, 10:02 AM   #5
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Sounds like a great upgrade, excellent choice getting an LSD ... it is the #1 mod for these cars, IMO. The open differential doesn't quality the 335 as a "sports" car. What kind of LSD did you get, Quaife?

Could you talk a bit more about what is included in the birds b3.5 suspension? Do you have a link to it?

Two other things I'd recommend doing (if you haven't already) are the M3 subframe bushings and upgraded rear toe arms (I have the Rogue Engineering ones). The subframe bushings are far stiffer and keep the rear end from wiggling around/torque steering, and the toe arms prevent any changes in toe under acceleration.

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      03-31-2012, 12:07 PM   #6
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Hi.

Quaife. Subframe bushings tightened by custom inserts filling the void in the OEM bushings (am told approximately quartered the install price vs m3 ones that require dropping the subframe).

Installed by Birds UK.

Basically this package.

http://www.birdsauto.com/content/collateral/pdfs/E9210928310.pdf
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      03-31-2012, 12:08 PM   #7
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I saw a link a couple years ago for this susp set up. I think it's lowering springs, custom valved Bilstein dampers and larger anti roll bars.
crypticc: Do you have the details for this susp?
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      03-31-2012, 12:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a
I saw a link a couple years ago for this susp set up. I think it's lowering springs, custom valved Bilstein dampers and larger anti roll bars.
crypticc: Do you have the details for this susp?
Just posted mate. What you said covers it. Plus LSD (without which roll bars are not advised due to traction bias towards over steer).

Had my car from new in 07 and I know it well.

Now it is like having a new car all over again. :-D
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      03-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
Just posted mate. What you said covers it. Plus LSD (without which roll bars are not advised due to traction bias towards over steer).

Had my car from new in 07 and I know it well.

Now it is like having a new car all over again. :-D


That's I know that feeling as well.
I opened that link you provided. No details though I'm curious about the roll bar dimensions and spring rates.
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      03-31-2012, 05:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
Just posted mate. What you said covers it. Plus LSD (without which roll bars are not advised due to traction bias towards over steer).

Had my car from new in 07 and I know it well.

Now it is like having a new car all over again. :-D


That's I know that feeling as well.
I opened that link you provided. No details though I'm curious about the roll bar dimensions and spring rates.
Afraid I don't have that. Maybe try contacting them?

BMW.car did a good review.

http://birdsauto.com/content/collateral/Editorial/E92%20335i%20201006%20BMWCar%20BirdofParadise/BMWCar_201006.html
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      03-31-2012, 10:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
Hi.

Quaife. Subframe bushings tightened by custom inserts filling the void in the OEM bushings (am told approximately quartered the install price vs m3 ones that require dropping the subframe).

Installed by Birds UK.

Basically this package.

http://www.birdsauto.com/content/col...9210928310.pdf
Just read Birds description. Rising rate springs=progressive rate springs which explains improved ride comfort. The springs sound similar to (if not the same) as Eibach pro kit. No idea about the roll bars; it'd be interesting to know the dimensions. That's prudent that they don't offer the roll bars w/o the Quaife LSD. Subframe bushing inserts sound like what Powerflex offers.
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      04-01-2012, 03:42 AM   #12
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Not sure about front arb but I recall 20mm mentioned for rear
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      04-01-2012, 01:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Just read Birds description. Rising rate springs=progressive rate springs which explains improved ride comfort. The springs sound similar to (if not the same) as Eibach pro kit. No idea about the roll bars; it'd be interesting to know the dimensions. That's prudent that they don't offer the roll bars w/o the Quaife LSD. Subframe bushing inserts sound like what Powerflex offers.
Photo - Front springs and shocks.
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      04-02-2012, 01:13 PM   #14
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Hello mate, Sounds like you are enjoying your new kit.
I have been saving up a bit of cash to go down the same road, but am interested what you said about the bushes inserts.

Could you give a little more info, are they stick in jobs, and how are they installed?

I am trying to go for LSD at Bird's myself but dont want to spring for the who suspension package. But I would like to tighten up the slop during high speed direction changes.

What sort of costs for the bushes?
Ideally I want to get them installed with the Diff and hopefully not spend more than 1600 or so?

Any more info appreciated
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      04-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iLondon
Hello mate, Sounds like you are enjoying your new kit.
I have been saving up a bit of cash to go down the same road, but am interested what you said about the bushes inserts.

Could you give a little more info, are they stick in jobs, and how are they installed?

I am trying to go for LSD at Bird's myself but dont want to spring for the who suspension package. But I would like to tighten up the slop during high speed direction changes.

What sort of costs for the bushes?
Ideally I want to get them installed with the Diff and hopefully not spend more than 1600 or so?

Any more info appreciated
335 Check with birds.
in Kevin's words, he felt bushes were a retrograde step unless you are driving car hard and with over 360 BHP.

They do have springs for regular dampers. But personally I don't regret the upgrade (I had thoughts when I started of just getting the LSD)

Leaning on the car even more over the weekend it comes alive. Shrugs off drain covers on the inside. Corners that would normally have the car bucking and scrabbling due to grip being upset, say due to a broken bit of asphalt appear almost effortless.
I don't know if you've ever been karting, but if you've ever wondered why the more instinctive reflex actions, and driving line seem difficult to obtain and don't translate onto the road? I think this goes some way to delivering it without risking a spinal injury. it. (clearly *not* quite that direct, but point made).
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      04-03-2012, 04:38 PM   #16
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335 Check with birds.
in Kevin's words, he felt bushes were a retrograde step unless you are driving car hard and with over 360 BHP.

They do have springs for regular dampers. But personally I don't regret the upgrade (I had thoughts when I started of just getting the LSD)

Leaning on the car even more over the weekend it comes alive. Shrugs off drain covers on the inside. Corners that would normally have the car bucking and scrabbling due to grip being upset, say due to a broken bit of asphalt appear almost effortless.
I don't know if you've ever been karting, but if you've ever wondered why the more instinctive reflex actions, and driving line seem difficult to obtain and don't translate onto the road? I think this goes some way to delivering it without risking a spinal injury. it. (clearly *not* quite that direct, but point made).

335 London

Check this out. your question answered. One of the original fans of the suspension setup I have recommending LSD plus roll bars on stock sport springs and dampers (which you could switch later).

Also I believe these are ultimately the dimensions of the arb.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...D+antiroll+bar
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      04-04-2012, 03:05 PM   #17
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+1 for the Birds 3.5s chassis package. Have it + M3 bits at the front on my 335i e91.

great combination for UK roads and am impressed with the car after having done a couple of trackdays with it.

Not cheap but you get what you pay for with Birds kit IMHO.

Pictures attached to show how it looks [albeit with my winter tyres on, which are now off the car]
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      04-06-2012, 03:50 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
335 London

Check this out. your question answered. One of the original fans of the suspension setup I have recommending LSD plus roll bars on stock sport springs and dampers (which you could switch later).

Also I believe these are ultimately the dimensions of the arb.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...D+antiroll+bar
Cheers, just what I need really
ARB's Bush's and LSD
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      04-06-2012, 03:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iLondon
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticc View Post
335 London

Check this out. your question answered. One of the original fans of the suspension setup I have recommending LSD plus roll bars on stock sport springs and dampers (which you could switch later).

Also I believe these are ultimately the dimensions of the arb.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...D+antiroll+bar
Cheers, just what I need really
ARB's Bush's and LSD
Jury is out on bushes for me.
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      12-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #20
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Crypticc,

What are your thoughts after 6 months if your still around?

Undecided if Bush's will be more of a negative more of the time than they would improve the ride during the (increrasingly small) time of really driving the thing.

Cheers
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      12-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #21
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Crypticc,

What are your thoughts after 6 months if your still around?

Undecided if Bush's will be more of a negative more of the time than they would improve the ride during the (increrasingly small) time of really driving the thing.

Cheers
Definitely would still do it again. Bought car from New in 2007 and did this to revitalise the car after being unimpressed with the replacement options. Wish I did this from day one. With the lsd it is the car I thought I always had but apparently didn't. Suspension is arguably better comfort than standard msport. An unweighted wheel on a pothole on the apex of a bend at 7 10ths now skips over quickly, no drama where before it would crash or require changing the line and resulting discomfort from that. Roll bar keeps things sorted into, around and out of bends at 9 10ths plus.
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      12-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #22
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My 2p worth.

Had the birds kit on my e91 for 1+ year now and its still night and day compared with stock M sport setup.

Only slight downside with the M3 bushes on an e91 is that there's a tad more noise coming up from the road into the touring cabin. No biggy though.

All I wish is that Michelin started selling PSS in 255 35 18 94Y non RFT's here in the UK. Car rides and grips well on Michelin PS3's but have sampled PSS shod E90 in the USA. Cracking.
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