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      12-31-2010, 01:21 PM   #1
secretsquirrel
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MTF change (how much fluid)

I'm about to flush the MTF in my car. Does anyone know how much fluid is required? I've searched, but I didn't find the information easily.

thanks

BTW:
There really should be a sticky for the following:
recommended oils
amount of oils
recommended tranny fluids
amount of tranny fluid needed
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      12-31-2010, 02:34 PM   #2
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Just under 2 qt. If you search the DIY, Mr. 5 has a great thread on this.
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      12-31-2010, 03:27 PM   #3
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The OEM BMW trans fluid MTF-3 is BMW P/N:

Trans Oil in 5L container 83 22 7 533 818.

2 quarts is about the correct amount. BMW sells it only by the 5L jug as far as I know.
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      12-31-2010, 10:48 PM   #4
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thanks a lot guys. The fact that you only need 2 quarts makes the 5L BMW fluid even more outrageously priced.
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      01-01-2011, 12:27 AM   #5
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I used a little less than 2 quarts of Royal Purple Synchromax. It improved shifting noticeably.
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      01-01-2011, 07:58 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
thanks a lot guys. The fact that you only need 2 quarts makes the 5L BMW fluid even more outrageously priced.
Unless you change the trans oil more than once...
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      01-03-2011, 04:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secretsquirrel View Post
I'm about to flush the MTF in my car. Does anyone know how much fluid is required? I've searched, but I didn't find the information easily.

thanks

BTW:
There really should be a sticky for the following:
recommended oils
amount of oils
recommended tranny fluids
amount of tranny fluid needed


I'd use OEM BMW fluids. Not Red Line, Royal Purple and so on. According to my Bently manual (if you don't have one, get one) it's MTF-LT2 or MTF-LT-3. Not sure, but probably differenct viscosity for temperture for your area? I have no problems shifting now with the fluids that came in the bimmer. I don't see how Red Line and similar will improve on that. OEM stuff is known to work and for things like this I am not messing with the program. Using the wrong fluid will ruin your transmission. I think Red Line did have some problems early on because their fluid was too much "lubricity?" which was being advertised as a good thing....and it wasn't sticking to the gearing enough...or maybe not getting inbetween the gears at all...and causing failure. I am not sure, but I am sure the BMW OEM stuff works fine. I know the OEM stuff some manufacturers use is garbage. Have read about first mod every Genesis Coupe owner does is change out the MTF.


Was guessing for servicing this would be......fill till the fill hole is overflowing like all the other cars I ever did this on. Looked it up on my Bently manual...and yeah, fill it till the fill hole starts to overflow. Manual says for a refill, this should take 1.5qts. Of course you'll need to jack the car up level and not just the front.
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      01-04-2011, 12:18 PM   #8
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thanks for the response, Casca. I'll do a little more research before going aftermarket just to be sure.
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      01-09-2011, 11:41 AM   #9
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You might want to look at Pentosin - it is available in liter bottles and may be OE.
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      01-09-2011, 04:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbernielu View Post
You might want to look at Pentosin - it is available in liter bottles and may be OE.

I don't think Pentosin made any of the gear oil for BMW and I think the Pentosin fluid on those sites are selling stuff meant to replace LT2 fluids, not LT3.

Quote:
According to spare part number of vehicle manufacturer:
- Esso Gear Oil 304
=> BMW Oil No. 2300 1434 404 (clutch bell housing label MTF-LT1)
- BP Castrol BOT 338
=> BMW Oil No. 2300 7533 513 (clutch bell housing label MTF-LT2)
- BP Castrol BOT 207
=> BMW Oil No. 2300 7533 818 (clutch bell housing label MTF-LT3)
Warning: use of incorrect lubricant can cause transmission failure
http://www.scribd.com/doc/39567613/ZF-Transmission-Oils


According to that, looks like Castrol does both LT2 and LT3. From reading, LT2 supercedes LT1, but LT3 is a whole nother thing and you should not use one or the other (LT2 or LT3) in place of each other.

Quote:
2008 MY and later E90, E92 and E93 M3 require MTF-LT-2 fluid for conventional manual transmissions. This fluid is not
to be used in the Dual-Clutch Manual Transmission (M DCT Drive logic). Refer to Operating Fluids, Group 28 for the Dual-
Clutch Manual Transmission ((M DCT Drive logic) recommended lubricant.
MTF-LT-2 Fluid
BMW P/N 83 22 0 309 031
F. From Model Year 2006 all vehicles equipped with a manual transmission and the N52, N54 engines require the MTFLT-
3 long-term fluid. Refer to label on transmission, if label is missing enter vin number into EPC to acquire a new label
with fluid description.
MTF-LT-3
BMW P/N 83 22 0 409 878
No oil change is required for the entire service life of these transmissions.
http://www.billswebspace.com/BMWOper...rans230409.pdf

Looks like if you have an E9x M3, then you use LT2. All other E9x with a manual tranny uses LT3. LT3 is supposedly like an ATF fluid, because it is very thin. Some E9x M3 owners used LT3 and have no problems......yet. I wouldn't get anything thicker then LT3 for my e90 because it'd just make it shift like crap and I wouldn't get anything thinner for fear it'd not offer the same protection. For engine oil, I get oil on BMW's approved list. I don't think BMW has an approved list for tranny fluid, especially since they say it's "life time", so for this, I'd get exactly the same stuff that's coming out of it or whatever BMW says supercedes it. Using some of the "racing" tranny fluid might make your car feel like it shifts better, but shifting better is not exactly an indication that the fluid is doing what it is suppose to do...such as lubercating the gears properly.

Last edited by Casca; 01-09-2011 at 04:20 PM.
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      01-09-2011, 05:17 PM   #11
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OP - have you seen this thread over on the 1addicts forum...

DIY: manual transmission and diff fluid change

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409293

The last few posts are mine. For my 2010 135i 6MT car BMW says to use MTF-LT-3, but my German dealership tells me that the MTF-LT-3 has been replaced by MTF-LT-4.

On some cars there is a tag on the trans telling you which fluid it was filled with. As far as I understand it... LT-2 > LT-3 > LT4.

One of the most important things is to make sure the car is level when you change the fluid. For the rear diff, I have a suction tool for evacuating fluids from Griots.

Good Luck,
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      12-07-2012, 01:55 AM   #12
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Thread revival time!

Stay with me... this is kind of epic.

I've been researching this manual transmission and differential lubricants thing ad nauseum.

I have a '09 335i 6MT. My tranny is labeled for MTF-LT-3 (Castrol BOT 207) and the OEM diff oil is widely known to be Castrol SAF-XO.

Searching for info or specifications on MTF-LT-3 or Castrol BOT 207 yielded nearly nothing. I did find one guy on BITOG who did a VOA on LT-3. The viscosity tested at 6.1 cSt @ 100C.

I did find some interesting things though in the one Castrol PDF that mentioned BOT 207:

Quote:
The team settled on a fluid known as BOT 207.
Tests on a rolling road showed lower fuel consumption when BOT 207 was used. There was a 1.4 per cent improvement in fuel efficiency over the fluid normally used in the BMW Mini...
Then the go on to talk blah blah about saving 3 grams of CO2 per kilometer. That'll really save the world. Obviously the change to LT-3 is motivated by efficiency.

Quote:
Fill-for-life already exists for passenger cars, which typically have a life expectancy of 200,000-250,000km.
LOL! Caught 'em red-handed! Fill-for-life my arse! Who's life are we talking about here? If you want to keep your car longer than 124k ~ 155k miles, you'd better change that transmission oil.

Also, for the 1 Series M Coupe, the official BMW maintenance schedule is to change the transmission oil every 30k (50k km). The 1M uses a ZF GS6 transmission similar to the one in my 335i (but not the same box).

So, I'm really frustrated that the only way to get MTF-LT-3 is to buy 5 liters. My car is still under factory warranty (49k) and will be CPO thereafter. So I've wanted to use the factory fill lubricant. No OEM alternatives available.

As for the Diff, SAF-XO seems to be discontinued. The new Syntrax Longlife 75W-90 is unobtanium in the U.S. The BMW branded fluid is available if you want to buy a 55 gallon drum for about $2k.

The only alternative is to buy Land Rover LRN 7591 which is Castrol SAF-XO for about $20 a quart. I think I'm just going to do Red Line for the diff. Their 75W-90 NS has almost exactly the same viscosity as the SAF-XO

SAF-XO
KV @ 40C: 100
KV @ 100C: 15.2

Red Line 75W-90NS
KV @ 40C: 95
KV @ 100C: 15.6

Red Line 75W-90
KV @ 40C: 112
KV @ 100C: 16.1

Any reason to go for the more common 75W-90 that's intended for limited slip diffs (which I don't have, obviously) instead of the 75W-90 NS "No Slip"?
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      12-07-2012, 04:38 AM   #13
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My dealership sold me 2 quarts, they even sold me 1.5 for the diff, bmw of vista just in case you're wondering.
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      12-07-2012, 06:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Thread revival time!

Stay with me... this is kind of epic.

I've been researching this manual transmission and differential lubricants thing ad nauseum.

I have a '09 335i 6MT. My tranny is labeled for MTF-LT-3 (Castrol BOT 207) and the OEM diff oil is widely known to be Castrol SAF-XO.

Searching for info or specifications on MTF-LT-3 or Castrol BOT 207 yielded nearly nothing. I did find one guy on BITOG who did a VOA on LT-3. The viscosity tested at 6.1 cSt @ 100C.

I did find some interesting things though in the one Castrol PDF that mentioned BOT 207:



Then the go on to talk blah blah about saving 3 grams of CO2 per kilometer. That'll really save the world. Obviously the change to LT-3 is motivated by efficiency.



LOL! Caught 'em red-handed! Fill-for-life my arse! Who's life are we talking about here? If you want to keep your car longer than 124k ~ 155k miles, you'd better change that transmission oil.

Also, for the 1 Series M Coupe, the official BMW maintenance schedule is to change the transmission oil every 30k (50k km). The 1M uses a ZF GS6 transmission similar to the one in my 335i (but not the same box).

So, I'm really frustrated that the only way to get MTF-LT-3 is to buy 5 liters. My car is still under factory warranty (49k) and will be CPO thereafter. So I've wanted to use the factory fill lubricant. No OEM alternatives available.

As for the Diff, SAF-XO seems to be discontinued. The new Syntrax Longlife 75W-90 is unobtanium in the U.S. The BMW branded fluid is available if you want to buy a 55 gallon drum for about $2k.

The only alternative is to buy Land Rover LRN 7591 which is Castrol SAF-XO for about $20 a quart. I think I'm just going to do Red Line for the diff. Their 75W-90 NS has almost exactly the same viscosity as the SAF-XO

SAF-XO
KV @ 40C: 100
KV @ 100C: 15.2

Red Line 75W-90NS
KV @ 40C: 95
KV @ 100C: 15.6

Red Line 75W-90
KV @ 40C: 112
KV @ 100C: 16.1

Any reason to go for the more common 75W-90 that's intended for limited slip diffs (which I don't have, obviously) instead of the 75W-90 NS "No Slip"?
I believe the diff oil BMW specs is: Castrol SAF-XJ. It says so right on the label you can use it in ALL bmw models, even M models.









The 1M and M3(in the USA only) use Castrol SAF-XJ +FM (plus friction modifier). BMW NA want to use the "+FM" bc it quiets down(eliminates) the diff in slow speed turns, and hence no buy backs(lemons) for diff chatter noises. German dealer do not use the "+FM" oil.


The 1M uses the exact same manual trans as a 2011(and up!) N55 powered 135i. I suspect its the same trans used in the 335i too - but I have not checked. I know when the 1M came out BMW claimed it was somewhat different - but its not.

You can check on RealOEM.com for the part numbers.

Castrol SAF-XJ and a 5L jug of LT4...


Btw... LT3 was replaced by LT5. The 1M uses LT5. I also heard that for the 1M LT5 has been replaced now by LT6. That would not surprise me at al - since bmw likes to superceed these oils over time.

For my manual trans 135i - I used Redline ATF-D4. I been using D4 for about 35K miles now. I've also used AFT-D4 in my old e36 manual for 100K miles with no issues either. The advantage of ATF-D4 is it shifts MUCH smoother than BMW oils do. You can also use Redline's ATF-D6 as well. D6 is a slightly thinner oil.

Here is what my old trans oil looked like...

(left)old LT4 trans oil... only used for 30K kms! New LT4 oil. New Redline ATF-D4( right)
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      12-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #15
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Thanks for the info and photos Dacklone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I believe the diff oil BMW specs is: Castrol SAF-XJ. It says so right on the label you can use it in ALL bmw models, even M models.
SAF-XJ 75W-140 is much higher viscosity than SAF-XO 75W-90:

-XO | -XJ
15.2 | 25.0KV @ 40C, cSt
100 | 177.2KV @ 100C, cSt

That's a much bigger difference in viscosity than between Red Line 75W-90 and 75W-90NS. I thought -XJ was for limited slip diffs only. It mentions limited slip on the label in your photo, and it also says "most passenger car final drives".

I'm not sure what the consequences of using a higher viscosity oil in the differential would be.

Quote:
The 1M uses the exact same manual trans as a 2011(and up!) N55 powered 135i. I suspect its the same trans used in the 335i too - but I have not checked. I know when the 1M came out BMW claimed it was somewhat different - but its not.
335i / N54 engine: ZF GS6-53BZ
135i / N54 engine: ZF GS6-45BZ (AFAIK)

Quote:
Btw... LT3 was replaced by LT5. The 1M uses LT5. I also heard that for the 1M LT5 has been replaced now by LT6. That would not surprise me at al - since bmw likes to superceed these oils over time.
MTF-LT-5 is Pentosin FFL-3, and is specified by ZF for the GS6-45BZ, but not for the GS6-53BZ.

Now that I'm mentioning that, ZF recommends MTF-LT 1, 2 and 3 for the GS6-53BZ, depending on the label on the transmission.

Now I'm starting to wonder if the LT-3 is just for fuel efficiency alone. I'm going to look up the oil spec for the E9x M3 6MT.

Quote:
For my manual trans 135i - I used Redline ATF-D4. I been using D4 for about 35K miles now. I've also used AFT-D4 in my old e36 manual for 100K miles with no issues either. The advantage of ATF-D4 is it shifts MUCH smoother than BMW oils do. You can also use Redline's ATF-D6 as well. D6 is a slightly thinner oil.
Red Line D6 ATF seems to be the closest match in their products for MTF-LT-3. The only info I have on viscosity of the LT-3 is that Virigin Oil Analysis that one guy on BITOG did. According to that VOA the viscosity was 6.1 cSt at 100C, a very close match for Red Line D6 ATF at 6.4 cSt.

What really gets my attention is when you say that it shifts MUCH smoother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deluxe 247 View Post
My dealership sold me 2 quarts, they even sold me 1.5 for the diff, bmw of vista just in case you're wondering.
Thanks for that info deluxe 247!

Lifetime fill is such total B.S. I'm starting to think that part of the reason for it is so owner's won't put in a different oil in their transmission causing it to get 1.5% worse fuel economy. Never mind that the need a whole new transmission in 200k km.

Why build such high technology cars, so far advanced when compared to their older versions, and then refuse to maintain them so that they fail at a maximum of 250k km? So they can sell us a new car that's "even more efficient" and pocket the money...
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Last edited by NoTempoLimitN54; 12-07-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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      12-07-2012, 09:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Thanks for the info and photos Dackelone...



MTF-LT-5 is Pentosin FFL-3, and is specified by ZF for the GS6-45BZ, but not for the GS6-53BZ.

Now that I'm mentioning that, ZF recommends MTF-LT 1, 2 and 3 for the GS6-53BZ, depending on the label on the transmission.

Now I'm starting to wonder if the LT-3 is just for fuel efficiency alone. I'm going to look up the oil spec for the E9x M3 6MT.



Red Line D6 ATF seems to be the closest match in their products for MTF-LT-3. The only info I have on viscosity of the LT-3 is that Virigin Oil Analysis that one guy on BITOG did. According to that VOA the viscosity was 6.1 cSt at 100C, a very close match for Red Line D6 ATF at 6.4 cSt.

What really gets my attention is when you say that it shifts MUCH smoother.

You should try the Redline ATF D4 or D6 in your trans. It really makes the shifting effort MUCH smoother and with less effort. Many 1Addicts have switched over... and have reported positive results as well.

Also interesting is how almost every 1M over has reported when they have changed their trans fluid at 2K miles... the shifter shifted MUCH smoother with the MTF-LT-5. There was some confusion when the 1M came out whether to change the trans fluid or not. Most techs drained the trans fluid only to find out BMW NA did not stock the MTF-LT-5 fluid. So first they did change it, then BMW NA put out a TSB saying NOT to change it at the first 2K mile service. BMW says to change the fluid at 45K miles or the third oil change. But most 1M owners have changed their trans fluid along with the engine oil and diff fluid at 2K mile - first service. IF it works on a 1M it will work on the AG cars as well.

The Best oil is Fresh oil. I do not believe in BMW Lifetime fluids at all!!
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      12-11-2012, 11:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

Also interesting is how almost every 1M over has reported when they have changed their trans fluid at 2K miles... the shifter shifted MUCH smoother with the MTF-LT-5. There was some confusion when the 1M came out whether to change the trans fluid or not. Most techs drained the trans fluid only to find out BMW NA did not stock the MTF-LT-5 fluid. So first they did change it, then BMW NA put out a TSB saying NOT to change it at the first 2K mile service. BMW says to change the fluid at 45K miles or the third oil change. But most 1M owners have changed their trans fluid along with the engine oil and diff fluid at 2K mile - first service. IF it works on a 1M it will work on the AG cars as well.

Thanks for the feedback on Red Line for our E8x and E9x manual transmissions. But I'm confused by the second paragraph. Does that mean that the 1M does not come with MTF-LT-5 as factory fill?

From BMW Canada SI B00 01 10 June 2011 (refers to 1 Series M Coupe):

Quote:
The manual transmission fluid does not need to be changed at the 1,200 Mile Service (CBS service counter number 1).

Manual transmission fluid replacement is required and connected to other specific engine oil services. For example, manual transmission fluid replacement is required when performing the "CBS service counter number 3 and 6" engine oil changes. The chart below now references these changes.
The chart shows:
50,000 km
Vehicle Check 3:
Engine Oil, Differential Oil, MTF-LT-5 (1L 83 22 2 156 969) and Vehicle Check

Again at 122,000 km (except for Vehicle Check)

It also calls for spark plug replacement at 50,000 km (75,000 km for 335is/Z435is)

Once again, this puts the lie to the "lifetime fill" for the transmission, since the 1M transmission is not significantly different. It also puts the lie to 100,000 km for spark plugs.

It's almost like they do more maintenance on the special edition models because they they think the drivers of those cars are more likely to notice...
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      12-11-2012, 02:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Thanks for the feedback on Red Line for our E8x and E9x manual transmissions. But I'm confused by the second paragraph. Does that mean that the 1M does not come with MTF-LT-5 as factory fill?

The 1M does indeed come factory filled with MTF-LT-5. There have been a few 1M owners who have reported that BMW has now gone to MTF-LT-6. (see the last page of this thread)

CORRECT 1M Fluids List [Engine, Transmission, Differential
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=620282




Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
From BMW Canada SI B00 01 10 June 2011 (refers to 1 Series M Coupe):



The chart shows:
50,000 km
Vehicle Check 3:
Engine Oil, Differential Oil, MTF-LT-5 (1L 83 22 2 156 969) and Vehicle Check

Again at 122,000 km (except for Vehicle Check)


The problem is that BMW Canada, BMW NA(USA) and BMW AG all do not agree on some maintenance stuff/intervals.

My understanding is that the BMW AG says to change the 1M manual trans fluid at 2K kms, and then every THIRD oil change(engine oil, diff oil and gearbox oil). BMW NA says the first gearbox oil change is at 45K miles or the third oil change interval.


BMW AG says one should change your oil once every 23K kms or once every two years for their cars.

BMW NA says one should change your oil (or rather they will pay for one) once every year or 23K kms(15K miles).


BMW AG says to use Castrol SAF-XJ, while BMW NA uses Castrol SAF-XJ +FM (friction modifier - to quiet diff noise and to reduce any noise issues for potential buy-backs/lemons)


All of us know that BMW once per year or 15K mile oil interval is too long. Especially for a turbocharge engine. I always change my oil every four months or 8K miles - sometimes even sooner. I always use BMW approved German Castrol oil.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
It also calls for spark plug replacement at 50,000 km (75,000 km for 335is/Z435is)
BMW has always said to change the N54 and N55 spark plugs at 45K miles. The 100K mile spark plug interval is for the NA engines(x28i inline sixes)

In fact they call for earlier spark plug replacement when one gets a PPK (Performance Power Kit)installed.

BMW AG says to change the spark plugs(Zndkerzen) at 67K kms and then every 60K kms. Here is a decall/label from a 335i with the PPK...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Once again, this puts the lie to the "lifetime fill" for the transmission, since the 1M transmission is not significantly different. It also puts the lie to 100,000 km for spark plugs.

It's almost like they do more maintenance on the special edition models because they they think the drivers of those cars are more likely to notice...
Yup! BMW knows that M owners will be driving the cars harder than the driver of a normal "AG" (non M)car.

This is proof enough for me that BMW "lifetime fluids" is total BS.


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      12-11-2012, 06:28 PM   #19
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Thanks for the info and photos!

MTF-LT-5 is Pentosin FFL-3 which Pentosin's product info states is only for dual-clutch transmissions. So how can it be the replacement for LT-3?

EDIT: I re-read Pentosin's document on FFL-3, it might be due to the translation from German. The real meaning might be that dual-clutch transmissions must use FFL-3 non that it can only be used in dual-clutch transmissions. Otherwise how could it be the factory fill for the 1 Series M Coupe 6MT?
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      12-12-2012, 06:14 PM   #20
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To add a few things:

1. I changed my MTF at 68k and replaced with BMW OEM (still under CPO). I got the old fluid analyzed by Blackstone Labs, and looked pretty good.

2. The same shop (who I trust) sold me the XO diff fluid for my car. Like another person mentioned, I think the XJ is for limited-slip diffs. My E92 has an open diff, can't speak for Euro-spec cars.
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      12-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmellyGreek View Post
To add a few things:

1. I changed my MTF at 68k and replaced with BMW OEM (still under CPO). I got the old fluid analyzed by Blackstone Labs, and looked pretty good.
Thanks for the info. That's encouraging to those of us that have over 30k miles on the factory fill transmission oil. Would you be willing to share the results from Blackstone's analysis? I think a lot of us would find it useful. Especially the viscosity and wear metals. Also, was your transmission labeled for MTF-LT-2 or MTF-LT-3?

I'm still researching this manual trans oil issue. Here are a few things I've figured out since my last post:

My car has the ZF GS6-53BZ transmission. According to REALOEM, the E92 M3 uses the same transmission. E92 M3 spec 6MT trans oil is MTF-LT-2, which is available from Pentosin in 1L bottles.

My transmission label specs MTF-LT-3 which is only available from BMW in 5L jugs. The OEM equivalent, Castrol BOT 207, is not available as a non BMW branded product. The only info I have on MTF-LT-3 viscosity is virgin oil analysis on BITOG showing 6.1 cSt @ 100 C.

Dackelone's sources in Germany (see post above) claim that MTF-LT-5, which is Pentosin FFL-3, supercedes MTF-LT-3. MTF-LT-5 is spec for the 1 Series M Coupe, which has the ZF GS6-45BZ transmission. So far I have not been able to find any BMW documents supporting LT-5>LT-3. I would love to see this if anyone has it.

Here is some viscosity info for the various transmission oils:

Pentosin MTF2 viscosity @ 100C = 7.7 cSt
Pentosin FFL-3 viscosity @ 100C = 7.0 cSt
Red Line D4 ATF viscosity @ 100C = 7.5 cSt
Red Line D6 ATF viscosity @ 100C = 6.4 cSt
BMW MTF-LT-3 viscosity @ 100C = 6.1 cSt (based on BITOG VOA)

I found a Castrol document (as mentioned in my previous post) that suggests that the change to MTF-LT-3 (BOT 207) was motivated by fuel economy. If that's the only reason for LT-3, then I could run LT-2 in my warm climate and probably not ever notice the 1% difference in fuel economy.

Regarding the non OE Red Line option: Is there any concern with using a oil labeled as an "ATF" in a manual transmission? I've head good things about the Red Line D4 ATF's shift quality from E9x owners that have switched over to it.

I want to make a decision regarding this and get it done no later than 50k miles, which will be coming up for me in the next few weeks.

Thanks to everybody that has contributed info to this thread. Perhaps we can sort out all these issues, get some definite info, and make a stick thread so everyone can benefit.
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      12-15-2012, 04:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTempoLimitN54 View Post
Thanks for the info.

I probably should go and ask my guys at my BMW Zentrum. I am also curious as to what is the latest LTF-LT fluid to use. Like I said I suspect LT5 or LT6 is the latest version so far. I say that bc in the past bmw went from using LT-1 then LT-2 and then LT-3 and so on.


Here is a pdf from ZF on transmission fluids. Click on the TE-ML 11 file. I tried downloading it but I think the host site is down at the moment.

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/produ...ubricants.html

I have attached an older copy I have here...

ZF_Lubricants_TE-ML 11_en0700.pdf



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