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      11-28-2012, 06:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Low Key OG View Post
I gotta give the ATS some credit. It will make a nice rental car.
+1 he he
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      11-28-2012, 09:15 AM   #24
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Ok, raise your hand if you've driven an ATS. Any ATS. Didn't think so.

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      11-28-2012, 09:20 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by srSheepdog View Post
The ATS is only a good thing for us 3-lovers, as BMW will up its game to stay dominant. Looking forward to seeing the ATS-V come out.

I'm a fan of excellent cars...no matter who builds them.
Some say BMW may have changed their target audience......more luxury than sport in their current sedans. Makes sense as they didnt add lower sport suspension to compete with S4. The new 4 series may address all of this as its expected to be more expensive. I'm sure bulk of 3 series sales do not go to enthusiasts.
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      11-28-2012, 09:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by brocklanders View Post
i just read the article and all the comments, i think just the fact that they said the caddy steered and handled better made me put it on my test drive list. hopefully the ats-v will be available when my lease is up, i cant/wont drive an auto. i just dont like the direction bmw is going in, or any other auto maker for that matter, im not a fan of electric steering, i dont like the electric throttle my e90 has.
Have you tried electric steering? I bet most of us would have a hard time telling th edifference between hydralic and electric. EVERYONE is going that way.
Whats "the Audi way"? I think they should.......the new 3 was an opportunity to beat up on S4 but they dropped the ball.
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      11-28-2012, 09:34 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Have you tried electric steering? I bet most of us would have a hard time telling th edifference between hydralic and electric. EVERYONE is going that way.
Whats "the Audi way"? I think they should.......the new 3 was an opportunity to beat up on S4 but they dropped the ball.
The Audi way is the a4, not the s4. The 3 was a German sport sedan that regular folks could afford... Well, regular upper middle class folks. A high performance sport sedan that costs $50-60k doesn't count. The entry level model should be well balanced and handle extremely well, with tight, communicative steering, which the 3 used to be. Regular Audis cater to the luxury market, and BMW is copying that tactic.

You can always buy a Porsche. Hell,even the Lexus GS is now sportier than the 5er, bc BMW decided to chase the A6. BMW is losing its competitive edge in sport.
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      11-28-2012, 09:46 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by lem144 View Post
The Audi way is the a4, not the s4. The 3 was a German sport sedan that regular folks could afford... Well, regular upper middle class folks. A high performance sport sedan that costs $50-60k doesn't count. The entry level model should be well balanced and handle extremely well, with tight, communicative steering, which the 3 used to be. Regular Audis cater to the luxury market, and BMW is copying that tactic.

You can always buy a Porsche. Hell,even the Lexus GS is now sportier than the 5er, bc BMW decided to chase the A6. BMW is losing its competitive edge in sport.
I agree. I think we will see the M division step up to fill that gap. From what I have read about 4 series it should help but I'm with you, 3 is turning into just another small smooth sedan.
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      11-28-2012, 10:01 AM   #29
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I saw the same thing. Interestingly enough, supposedly MotorTrend did a review of just the BMW vs. the Cadillac (no Mercedes) and the BMW won... quite odd.
I think I remember that one too

I'm pretty sure that was the 328 against the 2.0, though. Not completely sure.
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      11-28-2012, 12:12 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
I agree. I think we will see the M division step up to fill that gap. From what I have read about 4 series it should help but I'm with you, 3 is turning into just another small smooth sedan.
The M division isn't going to fill the gap left in the affordable entry-lux sport sedan category. I'm not worried about well-driving performance cars that cost $60-100k.
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      11-28-2012, 12:18 PM   #31
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gm makes the corvette, cts v. they can make drivers cars. the dna of those cars are in the beautiful ats.
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      11-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #32
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Have any of these useless magazines done a comparison between the F30 335i and the S4? I would consider that to be a more serious competitor.
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      11-28-2012, 12:47 PM   #33
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Can't say I've driven an ATS, but the CTS coupe I test drove a year ago was nice. However, it was garbage compared to my 335.
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      11-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CAPSGOD View Post
Have any of these useless magazines done a comparison between the F30 335i and the S4? I would consider that to be a more serious competitor.
useless magazines? Are you one of those paranoid guys that doesnt believe anything in there? Yup. MT. There is a video. S4 is quicker, stops faster, corners better and they liked S4 steering better. Thats what i was getting at. If not M then 4 series will probably address this situation.....for more dough though.
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      11-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #35
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interesting:

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Certain aspects of the ATS execution, like the handling and brakes, are world class. Around a tight course, the ATS had no problem hanging with the 335i, and I definitely prefer its steering to that of the 3-Series. The ATS feels more neutral than the 335i, more readily inclined to hang its tail out with lift-throttle oversteer or a power-induced drift. In terms of overall feel, the ATS recalls an E46 BMW 3-series, which is a fine template to emulate.
sounds like the ATS is better at being a classic bmw than the new bmws are. from other articles I read, the chassis is ahead of the BMW, but the interior materials and design is behind the bmw.
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      11-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amini77 View Post
nopenopenopenope...no comparison lol. I'm all for the new american cars but thats isn't much competition for bmw, caddilac could have done better. Thanks for sharing
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      11-28-2012, 07:01 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 335BBS View Post
Have you tried electric steering? I bet most of us would have a hard time telling th edifference between hydralic and electric. EVERYONE is going that way.
Whats "the Audi way"? I think they should.......the new 3 was an opportunity to beat up on S4 but they dropped the ball.
I'm sure automakers will eventually be able to extract great steering feel and feedback from electro-mechanical steering, but BMW sure isn't there yet. I imagine Porsche has done a better job, but I haven't driven a new Boxster so I can't say for sure. What I do know is the difference between my E92 and the F30s i've driven is quite noticeable.

As for the ATS, I stopped by the Caddy dealership and took one out a few weeks ago, it was the 2.0 with the auto tranny. I am not a fan of the exterior styling, but I understand that is subjective. To me, the interior reminded me a bit of an infiniti G37. That's not a bad thing, though it did feel somewhat less "quality" than the F30.

As for the driving experience, pushing it somewhat hard on the same twisty course that i've taken the F30 335 and S4, it felt a bit more planted than the F30, though not as much so as the S4. The car feels solid, well built, and provides pretty good steering feedback. The tail end behaves very similar to the F30...meaning it likes to come out when pushing it hard around corners, whereas the Audi just feels like its on rails. Of all three, if price was no object i'd take the S4. Next I would take the 335. The main reason is styling. Driving dynamics, to me, are close enough to be a wash.

As many others have stated, I feel like BMW did not push hard enough to make the best drivers car with the F30, instead they tried to make the best "everyman's car". At that they have succeeded. I'm sure BMW will continue to have best ever sales as they cater to the wider audience. Thats just good business practice.

I expect when the new G37 comes out it will be a very strong candidate for best drivers car in class. Still doubt the new IS will be there. For now, good job to Cadillac for making a quality drivers car. The segment is filled with a lot of great vehicles, the F30 still being one of the best.
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      11-28-2012, 10:25 PM   #38
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Caddys are just too dang ugly for me. All those knife edges hurt my eyes. All trend and no grace or soul.

Speaking of hurting eyes, Caddy LED brake lights are so blindingly bright they'll burn afterimages into your retinas if you're unlucky enough to be behind one in traffic at night.
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      11-29-2012, 09:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by jeremicium View Post
I'm sure automakers will eventually be able to extract great steering feel and feedback from electro-mechanical steering, but BMW sure isn't there yet. I imagine Porsche has done a better job, but I haven't driven a new Boxster so I can't say for sure. What I do know is the difference between my E92 and the F30s i've driven is quite noticeable.

As for the ATS, I stopped by the Caddy dealership and took one out a few weeks ago, it was the 2.0 with the auto tranny. I am not a fan of the exterior styling, but I understand that is subjective. To me, the interior reminded me a bit of an infiniti G37. That's not a bad thing, though it did feel somewhat less "quality" than the F30.

As for the driving experience, pushing it somewhat hard on the same twisty course that i've taken the F30 335 and S4, it felt a bit more planted than the F30, though not as much so as the S4. The car feels solid, well built, and provides pretty good steering feedback. The tail end behaves very similar to the F30...meaning it likes to come out when pushing it hard around corners, whereas the Audi just feels like its on rails. Of all three, if price was no object i'd take the S4. Next I would take the 335. The main reason is styling. Driving dynamics, to me, are close enough to be a wash.

As many others have stated, I feel like BMW did not push hard enough to make the best drivers car with the F30, instead they tried to make the best "everyman's car". At that they have succeeded. I'm sure BMW will continue to have best ever sales as they cater to the wider audience. Thats just good business practice.

I expect when the new G37 comes out it will be a very strong candidate for best drivers car in class. Still doubt the new IS will be there. For now, good job to Cadillac for making a quality drivers car. The segment is filled with a lot of great vehicles, the F30 still being one of the best.
youre probably right. I think their marketing is unbelievable. People want to have a "BMW". They also have some relatively inexpensive entry models. Drove a 320 as a loaner...pretty good. i bet they will sell millions. Good to see GM fighting back.
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      11-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #40
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I'm not a fan of GM, but this car is on my "to test drive" list. It's intriguing to say the least, while (as mentioned already a hundred times) BMW seems to be becoming less intriguing as they drift towards catering to the lux at the expense of sportiness.

I'm curious to see if the 4er will be a bit closer to what we've come to expect from BMW over the years.
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      11-30-2012, 01:08 PM   #41
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I'm not a fan of GM, but this car is on my "to test drive" list. It's intriguing to say the least, while (as mentioned already a hundred times) BMW seems to be becoming less intriguing as they drift towards catering to the lux at the expense of sportiness.

I'm curious to see if the 4er will be a bit closer to what we've come to expect from BMW over the years.
I doubt it if the 4 series is going to better than the E92 dynamic wise. I bet the only way we are going to get the classic BMW is if we buy an M performance or outright M car. Maybe that's why the M engineers decided to rename the M3 the F80 chassis. They're probably reworking the hell out of the F30 to be more communicative and less synthetic.
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      12-20-2012, 04:41 PM   #42
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I went and looked at an ATS the other day. I am GM fan but they havent produced anything that has matched my wants and needs, the ATS is on my list to replace my 335 in a year or 2. I didnt get a chance to drive it as they only had 1 in the showroom and it was -10 outside but heres my feelings on the looks:

Interior - Ive never been a fan of the BMW interior, it look like it was from a late-90s economy car. The ATS has a very modern and unique interior to it. The leather is soft and smooth, but still has a toughness about it. You can tell its a GM but thats not necessarily a bad thing as of the last few years.

Exterior - I love the looks of my e90, its a classic design but its not unique. Take off the emblems and it could just be another car. While the ATS is just a baby CTS, it is still an uncommon shape for most automakers. I love the sharp, knife edges it has. Under the hood it is very clean also, and looks like there is room to get around without busting your knuckles too bad.

I think what it comes down to is, do you have wood furniture in your house or do you have metal and glass?
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      12-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #43
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They copied the design of their competition. Nothing shocking there

Though their drivetrain is a little behind it seems like a solid car

I heard that their Idrive alternative is

Will we be seeing an ATS-V soon?
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      12-20-2012, 06:17 PM   #44
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Another thing, the 2.0 is a proven motor with tons of aftermarket support. The first iteration of a tune netted 50hp/70tq so there is more power to be had. GMPP has always on the ball with warranty-approved aftermarket parts too.
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