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      12-20-2012, 09:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by claykin View Post
And your stats came from where? Your personal experience?

Great. I can introduce you to a couple E90 owners that swear they'll never buy another BMW due to quality and reliability problems. My 2010 E90 was nearly trouble free.
+1 until it got into an accident
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      12-20-2012, 10:38 PM   #68
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I think most of you guys are nuts

As a former E92 (M3, at that) owner, the F30 whoops the E9x in pretty much every category. Looks (the yellow angel eyes are gross, and the droopy LCI E90 front bumper is weird), performance (N20 kills N52) and tech (Top View cameras, HUD and new Nav on F31/F30h) make me realize I'll never long for the old features and circa-2005 looks of the E9x style. Features and looks are important, but so is driving capability. F30 N55 + Sport suspension/steering + Dynamic Handling beat any non-M E9x I every drove.
Lets meet for a drive around and see how that handling and N55 work for ya

PS. I like the F30, and am sure the negative "reviews" are exaggerated, however, your last line killed your "honest" positive review...

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      12-20-2012, 10:45 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Like I said, my car was $43,xxx, that was M-Sport, metallic paint, heated seats and Sunroof.

No longer optional are the folding rear seats, dual power front seats, dual zone auto climate control, Homelink, and I-drive.

Throw in the Xenons to my car and it was still under $45k.

Not cheap, but $50k+ is not necessary.
$45k for the four-banger?!
Hmmm, no thanks.

My E90 325 with the ZSP was $32k...
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      12-20-2012, 10:52 PM   #70
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$45k for the four-banger?!
Hmmm, no thanks.

My E90 325 with the ZSP was $32k...
That's silly. I am sure your E90 is not comparably optioned and what was the MSRP and what is that in 2013 dollars...I paid $38k for mine.

I paid $38k for a lowly 4 cylinder. One that happens to trap at 100mph stock. You can keep your 325, I know it sounds great though!
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      12-20-2012, 10:53 PM   #71
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Lets meet for a drive around and see how that handling and N55 work for ya
Well I've technically got an N55 + a 55HP electric motor, but I get your point about the N54B30TO. Luckily, OEM performance updates for the F30 N55 are coming soon.


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PS. I like the F30, and am sure the negative "reviews" are exaggerated, however, your last line killed your "honest" positive review...
Well, since I never drove the 335is, my last comment still makes sense. And to be fair, there is no F30 equivalent of the 335is, yet, so it's not comparing apples to apples.
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      12-20-2012, 11:13 PM   #72
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Fixed in November+ 2012 builds. Fail no more.
oh :-)...guess my reporting is late...lol
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      12-21-2012, 01:04 AM   #73
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Wink

OP, save your money, keep your current car, no need to switch over if you dont need to.

I would wait for the M2 to come out

Your patience will pay off.

Unless you have money to spare, why not, but otherwise, the F30 is just another good car from BMW.
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      12-21-2012, 01:19 AM   #74
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I sold my e90 335 for the f30 335. Although the e90 steering was heavy, it wasn't tight. I didn't like how it was a bit wobbly going on high speed bends. The f30 steering is lighter but don't mistake that for handling. Handling is super sharp, almost as sharp as the e92m3 with servo. I like how the f30 steering gives you resistance when going over high speed bends. Also the f30 has less body roll than the e90 even though it sits a bit higher.

I can see why some people said what they said about the f30. I felt the same way when I got base model 328i loaners from he dealer. They didn't have sport package and came with 17s. Try driving the sport or msport and u may feel a little different. F30'msport in sport mode the steering feels almost as firm as my e92m3 on Normal settings.
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      12-21-2012, 04:04 AM   #75
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I'm not quite sure how you guys can judge the F30s just on one or two drives with it.

To be honest, all the cons i see on this thread is exactly the same thing people were saying when the E90's came out...
It looks ulgy, "Chris Bangle did a horrible job designing it" , feels very unsporty, throttle response sucks compared to the E46, so on and so on. Same thing thats going on now with the F30's

I came from an 04 E46 to 07 E90 to 10 E90 and now a 2013 F30 and yes every generations seems less sporty than the last. I'm not talking about engine power and torque figures, im talking about the sport "feel". When coming from the E46 to the E90 the car felt dull on the roads, suspension was too soft and you couldnt feel the response from the steering as well as before.
Same goes for when i went from my E90 to the F30, the steering is extremely unresponsive suspension is way too soft when driving around local roads and such

one thing you guys are overlooking is how it performs on a track...if you're going to buy a BMW you know you're not going to use it to its full potential unless you track it. If you mode your cars, throw tunes and such into but dont let it loose whats the point?

I've tracked all 3 generations and i can tell you they always perform better than the last.
Once you get into sport mode and drive around on a course you will find that the F30 is MUCH MUUCH better than the E90. The steering feels as good as the E90 the suspension stiffens up and the sport feeling is back like how it should be.

One thing you guys have to consider is not everyone who buys a BMW will be driving it like a maniac or a speed demon. People get old and soon the heavy steering wheel and stiff suspension becomes hard to stand, which is why they introduced sport modes and electronically adujusting dampeners. Instead of losing out on that market they made the F30, where the steering and suspension is so light and soft even the elderly can drive them.
some of you may think "oh i dont want to be associated with a brand where grandmas drive their cars" grow up. business is business, maximum profit is what every company looks for and to do that you'll need to sacrifice something.

If you want to compare the two generations compare them where they're made to have a difference. Honestly, if youre going to compare the two on the roads you might as well compare a camry to the e90...

just my 2cs
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      12-21-2012, 08:25 AM   #76
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That's silly. I am sure your E90 is not comparably optioned and what was the MSRP and what is that in 2013 dollars...I paid $38k for mine.

I paid $38k for a lowly 4 cylinder. One that happens to trap at 100mph stock. You can keep your 325, I know it sounds great though!
The bottom line is that paying $45k for what you mentioned (handling, trap speed...) fails to compete with a lower priced, better equipped Honda Accord V6 is just paying for the name...

I did not keep my 325, although, it was a great car, priced right.
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      12-21-2012, 08:54 AM   #77
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The bottom line is that paying $45k for what you mentioned (handling, trap speed...) fails to compete with a lower priced, better equipped Honda Accord V6 is just paying for the name...

I did not keep my 325, although, it was a great car, priced right.
How is that any different than the purchase of your 325?

For decades now, there has not been much value proposition when comparing a loaded Accord or FILL IN CAR here against a base 3 series.

This is not a new debate just because of the F30. I find better value for money now actually. Slightly bigger car with a usable back seat, 35mpg average, a lot more standard features, 270'ish HP at the crank, 5.4 to 60/100 mph trap at 14.0. BEFORE, a V-6 Accord would be bigger, better optioned, better MPG and be faster than the 328. So why throw the Accord debate at the F30 NOW without lobbying the same concerns dating back to the start of the 3.
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      12-21-2012, 09:20 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Like I said, my car was $43,xxx, that was M-Sport, metallic paint, heated seats and Sunroof.

No longer optional are the folding rear seats, dual power front seats, dual zone auto climate control, Homelink, and I-drive.

Throw in the Xenons to my car and it was still under $45k.

Not cheap, but $50k+ is not necessary.
I am sorry, but your car sounds pretty strip down to me except for the M-sport
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      12-21-2012, 09:41 AM   #79
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I am sorry, but your car sounds pretty strip down to me except for the M-sport
How so? What do you really need/want? Comfort Access? Not for me.

The adjustable suspension...I heard it was not worth it, I am doing aftermarket springs and likely adjustable Koni's or something.

Should I have gotten cold weather so I can heat the backseat for the passengers I almost never carry?

Navigation? I am not a fan of most OEM nav setups, I like my Garmin's.

Granted $550 for metallic paint in 2013 is a bit ridiculous. The M-Sport package is not cheap either, but when compared to the other lines, it's worth it.

The only thing I feel I missed out on are the Xenons. When a fairly priced retro-fit comes around, I will likely upgrade.

When you look at the standard features on the BMW site, the car really has a lot of little upgrades. THe ambient lighting in the interior, the door handles with LEDs, the garage link, the auto dimming mirrors, power folding mirrors...it's pretty well equipped.

I have different priorities. I optioned this car the way I wanted, it's got most of the real performance you can get in a 328, lightest aside for the sunroof(with a black headliner, I felt it was needed). The F30 gets crap for being far from an enthusiasts car, my 6mt, summer tired, low optioned M-Sport in a classic color does a good job of presenting a counter.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...and_specs.aspx
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      12-21-2012, 10:05 AM   #80
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The F30 is a step towards more broader and mainstream crowd, since it is not as sporty as the previous generation. It got bigger, softer and more economical and lost a lot of what made BMW's great in the process. The 2 series is coming out soon and it should be closer to what the 3 was in the past.
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      12-21-2012, 10:23 AM   #81
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      12-21-2012, 10:29 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
How so? What do you really need/want? Comfort Access? Not for me.

The adjustable suspension...I heard it was not worth it, I am doing aftermarket springs and likely adjustable Koni's or something.

Should I have gotten cold weather so I can heat the backseat for the passengers I almost never carry?

Navigation? I am not a fan of most OEM nav setups, I like my Garmin's.

Granted $550 for metallic paint in 2013 is a bit ridiculous. The M-Sport package is not cheap either, but when compared to the other lines, it's worth it.

The only thing I feel I missed out on are the Xenons. When a fairly priced retro-fit comes around, I will likely upgrade.

When you look at the standard features on the BMW site, the car really has a lot of little upgrades. THe ambient lighting in the interior, the door handles with LEDs, the garage link, the auto dimming mirrors, power folding mirrors...it's pretty well equipped.

I have different priorities. I optioned this car the way I wanted, it's got most of the real performance you can get in a 328, lightest aside for the sunroof(with a black headliner, I felt it was needed). The F30 gets crap for being far from an enthusiasts car, my 6mt, summer tired, low optioned M-Sport in a classic color does a good job of presenting a counter.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...and_specs.aspx
Not to get into it too much here, but your car have two options out of a list of at least 15 possible options one can get for the F30. You are right that everyone's priorty is different, but mid $40K for a config. like your is no bargain. I agree that M-sport is a must have. The non Msport or non sport line F30 drives like a Camry. Personally, I would need to add lighting package, technology package, Premium sound package, cold weather package, X-drive, premium package and anti theft alarm system for me to consider the F30 decently equpped. Once you add all those options, we are well into $50K+.

Last edited by The X Men; 12-21-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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      12-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #83
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Not to get into it too much here, but your car have two options out of a list of at least 15 possible options one can get for the F30. You are right that everyone's priorty is different, but mid $40K for a config. like your is no bargain.
Are you picking and choosing what replies to read?



If you read all of mine, you would see my MSRP was under $44k, I think it was $43,450 to be exact. MID $40's is 45k+.

I also stated that I do not think that is great value, I got mine for $38k and I feel like at THAT amount of money the performance/value/money equation is within reason.

I see there are tons of options for the F30. They do not appeal to me.

I could have a fully loaded no line with $8k in options, would that make it a better car-just so it could be loaded with TECH items?

But this is about the E90 vs F30. When you factor in MSRP, features now standard, the price of the F30 has not inflated much at all compared to the E90. On the other forum someone did the homework of MSRPs dating back to the E46 adjusted for inflation and the F30 is actually not a jump at all(or less than $1000 but including more standard equipment).
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      12-21-2012, 10:38 AM   #84
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it is too similar to the 5 series.
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      12-21-2012, 11:20 AM   #85
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$45k for the four-banger?!
Hmmm, no thanks.

My E90 325 with the ZSP was $32k...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
That's silly. I am sure your E90 is not comparably optioned and what was the MSRP and what is that in 2013 dollars...I paid $38k for mine.

I paid $38k for a lowly 4 cylinder. One that happens to trap at 100mph stock. You can keep your 325, I know it sounds great though!
Small turbos are the way of the future. WAY faster than a 325 ....WAAAYYYY more torque.
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      12-21-2012, 11:29 AM   #86
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Small turbos are the way of the future. WAY faster than a 325 ....WAAAYYYY more torque.
Correct.

On a load bearing Super Flo dyno my car put down 240ftlbs to the wheels and 260 with the catback.

Dynojets are showing 240-260ft lbs to the wheels stock.

That is quite impressive.

I have also seen a RACE gas stage 1 BMS dyno show over 300ftlbs to the wheels.

Fact is, NA 6 cylinder BMW's need a bolt on blower/turbo kit for $5-15k to make tq that high.
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      12-21-2012, 11:36 AM   #87
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Personally if I had to choose on looks alone, the F30 is the sure winner IMO.

The interior is years ahead as it should be. Mind you, that non-integrated screen is a major eye sore. It was like it was an after thought.

The exterior is also nicer for the most part, but just marginally. The front hood is odd looking as many have mentioned but the rest of the car is just about right.

I own an LCI e90 right now and I would definately go to the F30 if the money made sense. The problem I'm having is I cannot justify spending another 50K on a car that for the most part hasn't been drastically changed on the exterior.
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      12-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #88
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Small turbos are the way of the future. WAY faster than a 325 ....WAAAYYYY more torque.
WAAAYYYY more unreliable. Owned and experienced plenty FI vehicles and NA vehicles. I do not want to own another turbo vehicle for a long time, specially a German made one. A good 6 cylinder will deliver more power while still achieving very good fuel economy and will be a lot more reliable and durable than a turbo four. Honda and Toyota make V6's in the mainstream vehicles (Accord and Camry) that are faster than the F30 328i, cost less to produce, maintain and will likely outlast any German turbo four (non-diesel) currently on the market.
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