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      12-22-2012, 03:10 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterM View Post
Both the Camry and Accord were faster after 0-60 (FWD vs RWD) and delivered better fuel economy in the particular tests I posted. Here is a review of a manual V6 Accord and it is truly faster than any F30 328 test I have seen to date:

Accord V6 Coupe manual
0-60 5.6
0-100 13.4
1/4 mile 14.0 @ 103 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...al-test-review

F30 328i manual

0-60 5.6
0-100 14.3
1/4 mile 14.3 @ 100 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad-test-review

F30 335i manual

0-60 5.3
0-100 13.0
1/4 mile 13.8 @ 103 mph
It is even worse than that.

5-60mph or real life acceleration is much better on the Accord/Camry V6 than a 328i. 6.0-6.1s for them versus 6.5-6.6 for the 328i.

Also fuel economy doesn't have as much impact as fuel cost and again the N20 loses here. A 328i costs MORE in fuel than all V6 versions of the Accord/Camry/Altima.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....32612&id=32904

I have no idea why anyone should be impressed with the N20.
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      12-22-2012, 03:41 PM   #134
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      12-22-2012, 03:55 PM   #135
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Post this with a January 2014 date below the bar code and I will be impressed.

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      12-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #136
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This sums it all up from your side.
Those two should not even be compared...
I already explained, I find E90 is heavy steering just for heavy sake, the way a guy goes over board in shaking your hand some time. I think the E90 has a bit more feel that comes through(compared to F30 Sport setting). Will I mind if they update the software for the EPS so it allows less electric feedback on my F30, nope-would be a good thing.

Does it make me less of an enthusiast than you who might love the E90 steering?

I love the E36 steering I have(especially with the Raid smaller airbag wheel), it communicates more than my F30, is heavier, but not as heavy as the E90. I don't think I often see people complain about E36 steering.
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      12-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #137
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Lets put in this way, the F30's steering is like a ugly baby, only a mother can love it

You guys know what the funny thing is, all these past years, these same F30 owners are laughing at and putting down Audi and Mercedes' steering and now that the F30's steering feels the same as Audi and Mercedes, all of a sudden, these light steering now feels comfortable, commutative, less effort, more precise
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      12-22-2012, 04:47 PM   #138
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Lets put in this way, the F30's steering is like a ugly baby, only a mother can love it

You guys know what the funny thing is, all these past years, these same F30 owners are laughing at and putting down Audi and Mercedes' steering and now that the F30's steering feels the same as Audi and Mercedes, all of a sudden, these light steering now feels comfortable, commutative, less effort, more precise
I would not say that lol.

I feel the F30 is less communicative than the E90, E36,and can't remember if I drove an E46. That is fact.

I would also say that I have never heard of a EPS replacing a hydraulic system and heard that it INCREASED communication.

I still get communication from the F30(especially as I only drive the car on SPORT), it's not at the level of my E36. Nor is the effort as high.

It doesn't make the F30 steering BAD.

I still find the F30 steering superior to the competing cars in the segment. I have not driven the ATS which likely has one upped the F30 from what I have read.
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      12-22-2012, 05:58 PM   #139
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I can't remember if it were a November or December article from C&D, but they did an interesting test between EPS and HPS using two similar BMWs. A 528i with EPS and a 535xi with HPS. It was a blind test with many senior editors, and to their own surprise they actually preferred the feel and response of the EPS system. They had complained about the EPS in the BMWs for years. There were also many instrumented tests done to show that the data actually reflected their own impressions.

As you can tell, most people are biased, based on what they have. I've driven my family's 335i e90 and I actually prefer the feeling of my 335i f30 with the VSS. IMHO.
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      12-22-2012, 08:43 PM   #140
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I test drove the F30 328i x drive sport line yesterday. I like the way it drives, but I don't quite like the rear. I did not fall in love with the car. The interior was too plain as well. I would not buy it. I think it's my time to part ways with BMW and move onto an Audi A5!
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      12-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #141
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I think the E90 is very hard to beat. It has a great balance of old world craftsmanship and modern car technology. The F30 is more modern looking, but that is not always a good thing.
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      12-23-2012, 12:03 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
Those are all minor problems, still not too bad for a new design. No major TSB or recalls and no wide spread problems. I would say the f30 is pretty reliable as far as a new German design is concerned. German cars will never be as relaible as Japanese cars, I accepted that a long time ago and still rather drive German car than Japanese.
Yeah I guess I haven't come to terms with it yet.

I pay more.
It looks better.
It drives faster.
It handles better.

Yet it can't not make noises and creaks like an Acura?!?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboi, if Acura could make a car that was sexy and sultry, and option laden as a BMW, I would've stayed with it...but alas, they never will, they make their money on economies of scale. BMW, on options of scale
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      12-23-2012, 10:54 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I would not say that lol.

I feel the F30 is less communicative than the E90, E36,and can't remember if I drove an E46. That is fact.

I would also say that I have never heard of a EPS replacing a hydraulic system and heard that it INCREASED communication.

I still get communication from the F30(especially as I only drive the car on SPORT), it's not at the level of my E36. Nor is the effort as high.

It doesn't make the F30 steering BAD.

I still find the F30 steering superior to the competing cars in the segment. I have not driven the ATS which likely has one upped the F30 from what I have read.
The sport line and M-sport is not too bad, its the base, modern and luxury that is too soft and loose. Competitions such as Audi and Lexus have alot more experience with EPS than BMW, their EPS are actually getting better and better. I have had quite a few Audi in the pass and the last one I had, the EPS was as good if not better than BMW's.
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      12-23-2012, 10:59 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
Yeah I guess I haven't come to terms with it yet.

I pay more.
It looks better.
It drives faster.
It handles better.

Yet it can't not make noises and creaks like an Acura?!?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboi, if Acura could make a car that was sexy and sultry, and option laden as a BMW, I would've stayed with it...but alas, they never will, they make their money on economies of scale. BMW, on options of scale
I use to be a big Acura / Honda fanyboy many years ago. Acura as a brand name really have lost their identity in the sport luxury sedan segment. Frist they got rid of the NSX, then they came up with that hideous looking cooperate front grill, no V8 engine, no 8 speed transmission and no customer service. Its almost like they have given up on being an serious player in the sport luxury sedan segment.
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      12-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The sport line and M-sport is not too bad, its the base, modern and luxury that is too soft and loose. Competitions such as Audi and Lexus have alot more experience with EPS than BMW, their EPS are actually getting better and better. I have had quite a few Audi in the pass and the last one I had, the EPS was as good if not better than BMW's.
You said M-Sport and Sport is not bad. That is key lol. As long as we have those, they are giving more vanilla driving experiences that may bring in non BMW buyers. It's good for BMW.

I have not driven a VAG product that has BETTER steering than my F30. It might exist, but I have yet to drive it.
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      12-23-2012, 04:48 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
I can't remember if it were a November or December article from C&D, but they did an interesting test between EPS and HPS using two similar BMWs. A 528i with EPS and a 535xi with HPS. It was a blind test with many senior editors, and to their own surprise they actually preferred the feel and response of the EPS system. They had complained about the EPS in the BMWs for years. There were also many instrumented tests done to show that the data actually reflected their own impressions.

As you can tell, most people are biased, based on what they have. I've driven my family's 335i e90 and I actually prefer the feeling of my 335i f30 with the VSS. IMHO.
How do you do THAT blind test???
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      12-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #147
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My CA was talking about the dealership he works at. I'm sure the F30 is doing well around the country. I test drove every line, and the brakes felt soft. I guess I need to drive the msport for that "BITE" feeling of the brakes.
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      12-24-2012, 02:49 AM   #148
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How do you do THAT blind test???
You know, you blindfold everyone and let them loose on the track. Makes for a really in depth review. A little messy though.
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      12-24-2012, 02:50 AM   #149
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My CA was talking about the dealership he works at. I'm sure the F30 is doing well around the country. I test drove every line, and the brakes felt soft. I guess I need to drive the msport for that "BITE" feeling of the brakes.
I can't get enough of the bite and squeal combo. It's intoxicating.
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      12-24-2012, 03:06 AM   #150
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I have driven plenty of F30 328i non sport basic loaners. They did not impress me as much as my current E92 335i. However, my car is fully loaded and has sport package so it is not actually oranges to oranges comparison.

However, their are few things I am not so impressed with one is the start and go feature it is like a stumbling bumbling system that is better kept off. The electric steering is too light and a bit devoid of steering feel that makes me feel not connected to the car.

I am so glad that my E92 335i has no lame dead feeling electric steering. The second issue I have is for some reason the materials used on dash do not feel as upscale and a bit more plasticky looking in comparison. Also, the brakes feel horrible thanks to fuel saving economy tire tread pattern.

On the flip side you can't ignore the weight reduction, larger interior room, and greater fuel economy.

I am hoping the 4 series coupe addresses some of these issues the most important being the feel, and feedback from electric steering.


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It did not feel like an upgrade to me, generally I am a newer is better consumer, but I was underwhelmed. The car felt big, steering was not great, and it felt a little disconnected. I actually bought out my lease on my e90, still deciding on what to do after winter, do ED on an f30, or keep the e90 until sometHing new comes out, like the M2. Am I the only one that has this opinion?
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      12-24-2012, 10:19 AM   #151
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I had an F30 335i loaner for a week and it was kind of fun to drive for a big car. Unfortunately I did not like it as much as my current e92. I say unfortunately because I hope to get into something new in a year or two and this isn't it.
But when I am in the market for a new 5 Series with really ugly headlights, I will definitely consider the new 3 Series.
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      12-24-2012, 10:48 AM   #152
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Speaking of 5-series, I recently compared an F10 to an F30, and the legroom is the same in both cars, both front and rear. The F10 is definitely wider, and overall is a larger car, but if legroom matters to you like it does to me, the F30 is right up there. Looking forward to taking delivery of my M-Sport Line in March.
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      12-24-2012, 10:55 AM   #153
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Speaking of 5-series, I recently compared an F10 to an F30, and the legroom is the same in both cars, both front and rear. The F10 is definitely wider, and overall is a larger car, but if legroom matters to you like it does to me, the F30 is right up there. Looking forward to taking delivery of my M-Sport Line in March.
Legroom was an issue in the past when shopping the 3.

If the F30 had hydraulic steering still, so much of the whining would be non-existent
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      12-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #154
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I had a long test drive on an F30 335i (Sport, DHC etc) - in the first few seconds I realized that this car is not for me - totally lifeless/inert steering - felt like a Camry steering as far as feel is concerned. That to me was the one big issue. The other is the brake feel - no comparison to the E90. Of course I don't like the ASS feature as well, but then I hear that can be disengaged, so not that much of an issue. Liked the interiors, except felt that actual material quality was poorer than the E90.

Guess will just have to wait for the next iteration, unless BMW tunes the EPS better in the next year or so.
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