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      12-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #23
Got_Diesel
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Originally Posted by duramax View Post
ULSDF is the main problem in my opinion and research. Their has been a lot of premature injector failure do to the lack of lubricity in the fuel. In my duramax, I add a half quart of 2 stroke motor oil every tank. Optilube XTP for the D every tank since new.
I've heard of doing this as well. Does this affect the DPF?

I have a friend with a Mazda RX-8 and he adds premix to his fuel as well.
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      12-21-2012, 03:44 PM   #24
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I've heard of doing this as well. Does this affect the DPF?
DON'T DO IT. It will damage the DPF. Those solutions are for the diesels that were built in earlier years, not models that have all of our emission equipment.

Note that he mentioned in his post that he puts an additive in the tank of his d, not the 2 stroke oil.
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      12-21-2012, 06:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Got_Diesel View Post
I've heard of doing this as well. Does this affect the DPF?

I have a friend with a Mazda RX-8 and he adds premix to his fuel as well.
+1 to diner; just make sure to do your research on this engine & related emissions equipment before committing to your additive regimen (if any).

That Mazda is a whole different animal, partner. The problem with the newer rotories lies in the apex seals and the ignition system, promising is meant to help with the former. The engine uses the oil in between the apex seal and the rotor to seal off the "chambers" from each other. The same chamber goes from intake, to compression, to combustion, to exhaust as the rotor rotates/oscillates. It revs to 9000 rpm in no time, has basically no torque, has the most HP/L of any naturally aspirated production car engine ever(about 185hp/L), weighs less than an inline four, and is able to be placed completely behind the front axle for near-perfect yaw and weight distribution. It also has four spark plugs and no real emissions equipment other than the cat (which most guys remove or upgrade to high-flow anyway)...sounding different than your heavily computer-regulated, torquey, twin-turbo, HPCR diesel with urea injection and DPF yet?
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      12-22-2012, 10:20 PM   #26
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+1 to diner; just make sure to do your research on this engine & related emissions equipment before committing to your additive regimen (if any).

That Mazda is a whole different animal, partner. The problem with the newer rotories lies in the apex seals and the ignition system, promising is meant to help with the former. The engine uses the oil in between the apex seal and the rotor to seal off the "chambers" from each other. The same chamber goes from intake, to compression, to combustion, to exhaust as the rotor rotates/oscillates. It revs to 9000 rpm in no time, has basically no torque, has the most HP/L of any naturally aspirated production car engine ever(about 185hp/L), weighs less than an inline four, and is able to be placed completely behind the front axle for near-perfect yaw and weight distribution. It also has four spark plugs and no real emissions equipment other than the cat (which most guys remove or upgrade to high-flow anyway)...sounding different than your heavily computer-regulated, torquey, twin-turbo, HPCR diesel with urea injection and DPF yet?
Yessir! Sounds like my good friend SayNoToPistons. Revving to that 9100 or so is loads of fun, sounds great, so smooth and linear. And yeah he has no cat lol. It shoots flames too. So awesome. Fuel economy sucks though.
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      12-23-2012, 07:53 AM   #27
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Yessir! Sounds like my good friend SayNoToPistons. Revving to that 9100 or so is loads of fun, sounds great, so smooth and linear. And yeah he has no cat lol. It shoots flames too. So awesome. Fuel economy sucks though.
Yeah, they all shoot flames once you straight pipe unless you lean out the fuel mixture. I used to average about 15mpg with mine. I save enough in gas each month relative to the 8 that I pay for the d in gas savings alone, but I do miss the handling (before anyone gives me grief for that: my 8 had a 275 square setup and the car weighed just about 1k lbs less than the d).

...about those fuel injectors...
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      12-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #28
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My former rotor.
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      12-23-2012, 09:53 AM   #29
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So is the consensus that we should all look into adding some type of cetane booster to our fuel to help prevent premature injector failure? At least here in the states where the cetane level is much lower than say our Canadian neighbors. Also, how is it that you know what the cetane level is where you fill up?
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      12-23-2012, 08:51 PM   #30
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FYI, this is a decent link on the ratings of Diesel by brand (see bottom of post)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...74&postcount=1

I'm no diesel expert, but I'm not sure how much the cetane rating really has to do with injector failures. It would seem to me that if we were rating cleanliness, lubricity, and cetane of fuel as possible causes for injector failures, cetane would be number three out of the options. That said, it never hurts to address any/all possible causes.

I suspect that one thing we can do to help is keep your dealer on top of the fuel filter changes. They don't seem to be the best at remembering to fulfill their service obligations in the 50k mi service package outside of those specifically reminded by the onboard computers service recommendations.
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      12-24-2012, 01:41 AM   #31
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Cetane is less of a factor than lubricity. Canadian diesel must meet a maximum 460Ám wear scar rating. US diesel only has to meet a 520Ám maximum wear scar rating. I believe European diesel specifications allow only a maximum of 350Ám wear scar.

Smaller wear scar is better, meaning that on a test rig, the fuel with greater lubricity will result in a smaller scarring on the test surface.
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      01-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #32
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Quoting myself...30 days and 7k miles later. Injector 4 is now toast. Don't like where this is headed.

Anyone know the root cause of these failures for our cars? Here is an interesting article for anyone wanting to learn more about diesel fuel injector failures...

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1...l/viewall.html
Deed, what brand diesel were you mostly using? Or was the brand not that important to you when filling up?
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      01-01-2013, 07:36 PM   #33
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My former rotor.
Forgot to mention b/c we were Thread jacking, but nice
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Originally Posted by DnA Diesel View Post
Cetane is less of a factor than lubricity. Canadian diesel must meet a maximum 460Ám wear scar rating. US diesel only has to meet a 520Ám maximum wear scar rating. I believe European diesel specifications allow only a maximum of 350Ám wear scar.

Smaller wear scar is better, meaning that on a test rig, the fuel with greater lubricity will result in a smaller scarring on the test surface.
Yeah, this is kind of what I was figuring without knowing the details. I wish there were any definitive testing of the effects of additives (I.e. diesel Kleen) on the wear scar indicators.


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Deed, what brand diesel were you mostly using? Or was the brand not that important to you when filling up?
+1
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      09-20-2013, 12:37 PM   #34
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I was told after having my cylnder head cleaned and replacing the intake manifold that I may have to replace all 6 injectors, I'm already paying $5500 out of pocket to fix the carbon buildup and now I have to pay another $2500 for new injectors, when I asked if we could test them and replace the bad injector(s) with a flow bench I'm told no way to test, have to replace all 6 at $400 - $500 each, and was told that they would try to work with the injectors on the car already, they test drove 70 miles and gave it back to me, I paid $5505 and drove 39 miles and the engine failed. They say (bmw dealership that performed the work, the bmw store in cincinnati, ohio) that it was the #6 injector that failed dumping fuel into the cylinder and causing a hydro-lock, bent rod, cracked block and now I need a new motor. $16,000 - $17,000
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      09-20-2013, 02:06 PM   #35
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I was told after having my cylnder head cleaned and replacing the intake manifold that I may have to replace all 6 injectors, I'm already paying $5500 out of pocket to fix the carbon buildup and now I have to pay another $2500 for new injectors, when I asked if we could test them and replace the bad injector(s) with a flow bench I'm told no way to test, have to replace all 6 at $400 - $500 each, and was told that they would try to work with the injectors on the car already, they test drove 70 miles and gave it back to me, I paid $5505 and drove 39 miles and the engine failed. They say (bmw dealership that performed the work, the bmw store in cincinnati, ohio) that it was the #6 injector that failed dumping fuel into the cylinder and causing a hydro-lock, bent rod, cracked block and now I need a new motor. $16,000 - $17,000
My god you got slapped hard with the early adopter fee!

How many miles do you have BTW?
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      09-21-2013, 12:55 AM   #36
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I was told after having my cylnder head cleaned and replacing the intake manifold that I may have to replace all 6 injectors, I'm already paying $5500 out of pocket to fix the carbon buildup and now I have to pay another $2500 for new injectors, when I asked if we could test them and replace the bad injector(s) with a flow bench I'm told no way to test, have to replace all 6 at $400 - $500 each, and was told that they would try to work with the injectors on the car already, they test drove 70 miles and gave it back to me, I paid $5505 and drove 39 miles and the engine failed. They say (bmw dealership that performed the work, the bmw store in cincinnati, ohio) that it was the #6 injector that failed dumping fuel into the cylinder and causing a hydro-lock, bent rod, cracked block and now I need a new motor. $16,000 - $17,000
this sounds too terrible to be true. I'd be on the phone with BMWofNA right now.
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      09-21-2013, 08:20 AM   #37
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My god you got slapped hard with the early adopter fee!

How many miles do you have BTW?
Just an fyi..his car was bought used with over 70k on the odometer. A BMW dealership didn't sell him the car either.
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      09-21-2013, 11:14 AM   #38
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So is the consensus that we should all look into adding some type of cetane booster to our fuel to help prevent premature injector failure? At least here in the states where the cetane level is much lower than say our Canadian neighbors. Also, how is it that you know what the cetane level is where you fill up?
Even in Canada I still use additive. It makes a big difference in starting, idling, fuel economy and soot reduction.

My regens are almost once every 2 tank now except when the cooler weather hits and then I can't avoid those, but they are less frequent.

Now that I am using additive, I will continue. Our fuel is better, but still not good enough to meet the requirements listed in the owners manual.
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      09-21-2013, 11:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by moejav View Post
I was told after having my cylnder head cleaned and replacing the intake manifold that I may have to replace all 6 injectors, I'm already paying $5500 out of pocket to fix the carbon buildup and now I have to pay another $2500 for new injectors, when I asked if we could test them and replace the bad injector(s) with a flow bench I'm told no way to test, have to replace all 6 at $400 - $500 each, and was told that they would try to work with the injectors on the car already, they test drove 70 miles and gave it back to me, I paid $5505 and drove 39 miles and the engine failed. They say (bmw dealership that performed the work, the bmw store in cincinnati, ohio) that it was the #6 injector that failed dumping fuel into the cylinder and causing a hydro-lock, bent rod, cracked block and now I need a new motor. $16,000 - $17,000
In my car there was nothing wrong with the injectors or engine. Its the DDE. Call BMW NA. I had all my injectors replaced. problems continued. Had engine replaced. problems continued. DDE replaced. problems gone....so far
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      09-21-2013, 11:39 PM   #40
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had first injector replaced by BMW at 48k
Then intermittent ses light from 50-60k

went back in for violent idle at 63k.
3 months at BMW for diagnostics.
6 new injectors
New DPF
New Intake Manifold
New Cylinder Head
All covered under 7/70 emissions warranty plus BMWNA Goodwill for Cylinder Head

Now she runs like a beast... SOLID.
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      09-22-2013, 05:15 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
Even in Canada I still use additive. It makes a big difference in starting, idling, fuel economy and soot reduction.

My regens are almost once every 2 tank now except when the cooler weather hits and then I can't avoid those, but they are less frequent.

Now that I am using additive, I will continue. Our fuel is better, but still not good enough to meet the requirements listed in the owners manual.
Gee, mine does the same thing: fewer regens, better idle, starting, fuel economy, and soot reduction (there never was any), just without additive. Must be a coincidence.
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      09-22-2013, 09:34 AM   #42
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Gee, mine does the same thing: fewer regens, better idle, starting, fuel economy, and soot reduction (there never was any), just without additive. Must be a coincidence.
I see soot on the tips when I do primarily short trips, and the colder the weather the more that accumulates.

When I did my Santa Barbara trip, I had no soot buildup on the tips on the entire trip back. They were cleaned down in SB.
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      09-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #43
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I see soot on the tips when I do primarily short trips, and the colder the weather the more that accumulates.

When I did my Santa Barbara trip, I had no soot buildup on the tips on the entire trip back. They were cleaned down in SB.
So the short trips still cause soot, or the additive eliminated that too?

I've always been looking to improve the fuel but never found any scientific evidence. Maybe this is one way to look for it. I'll try cleaning my tips of the crud, which seems to be a way to tell if there is a problem (turned yellow before I needed new catalytic converters!) so maybe it does something.

What cetane booster do you use and in what dosage?
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      09-22-2013, 08:37 PM   #44
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It appears that the fuel injector + DDE failures are not related to the carbon build up issues in our 335D.

My 2010 D first had a fuel injector failure which was replaced.
But after driving for 30 miles the CEL reappeared and it went back to the dealer.
This time the dealer discovered carbon build up so the intake manifold was replaced and the cylinder head was cleaned off carbon build up.

I drove another 30 miles and the CEL came back.

I told my dealer that other Ds had to have the DDE replaced to fixed the CEL and provided print outs of forum posts.

This time BMW agreed to replace the DDE.
Since then the CEL never reappeared.

I was told to expect carbon build up in another 50~60,000 miles!
My D was not covered by warranty as the issues happened at 65,000 miles.
The total costs was over $13,000.00.
At my request my dealer worked with BMW and out of good will BMW covered over $9,000.00 of the costs while I paid $3,800.00.

I drove my D for over 3,000 miles without further incident.
But I wasn't comfortable that the D will be trouble free from here on so I traded it in for a 2013 E350 BlueTec.

For the E350 BlueTec I started using AMSOIL Diesel Injector Clean additive in the hope to avoid carbon build up issues.
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