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      12-26-2012, 06:32 AM   #1
DarkAnt335i
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My change from 335i to Porsche C2s

My experience going from 335i to C2s



MY 335i
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The 335i is a fantastic car, it did have its problems though with about 9 trips back to BMW in the 11 months and 11k miles i had it.

For me the it was a lovely motorway cruiser and extremely quick point to point in fact probably quicker than that c2s across town. I found it extremely comfortable and with the modification i made it was relatively competent on the track BUT not massively challenging to drive quickly unless it was wet . Even with the Mods it never felt quiet as detailed as some lower powered sports cars i had been in/driven.

11 months was the longest i had owned a car in the past 6 years and i was happy relatively happy with it.

The reason i ended up selling it in the end was because although it had a full AUC warranty, when the battery started draining everyday i took it to BMW about 3 times before they said they knew the battery was dead but i had to pay for it because it didn't give them an error code. So even though the battery was covered and it was dead I HAD TO PAY FOR IT, because no code was thrown. That was it for me, i don't mind that it had a few issue which had been sorted but when they wanted to charge me for no reason, i had had enough.




My Pig
Aero zero lift body kit
355bhp
295 ft/lbs
Sports exhaust
Colbolt blue
Ocean blue leather
Active suspension


When i picked up the Porsche i still couldn't believe it was mine. It was and still is a dream car for me(and the wife ) and being able to achieve buying it at a relatively young age was quiet nice. Although i really want to GT3 its just not suitable. For me its truly stunning from every angle.

But before i get into how amazing the car is. 2 days after i bought it approx. 300 miles it broke down. 3 weeks of Porsche telling me it was my fault and quoting 3k to check the engine followed by 12k to replace followed by the total bill of 21k for engine and cat replacement. Finally after my protests to the Porsche dealership, Porsche UK and finally a review by Porsche Germany 1 week later they agreed to pay the bill. I haven't gone into to much detail as the full 26 page log is here; http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=78710.

So my initial happiness was marred by a horrid 4 weeks with no car and the possibility of have to find between 8k rebuild or 21k replacement. When i finally got the call to let me know i was getting a complete new engine and cat i was happier than when i initially bought the car.

Anyway after getting the car back i have to say the last 1000 miles have been amazing. The car couldn't be more different to the 3. The car brings a smile to my face overtime i look at it, I find any reason to drive it.

Compared to the 3 the pedals are HEAVY all 3 of them, the gear change seems slow and deliberate and the shifter feels heavily sprung.

The steering is very very fast to the point that, initially, when making fast direction changes its quiet easy to over steer the car(i mean that in the sense of putting in more steering angle than is needed). It's quiet a strange sensation, not having weight over the front. Something i am more used to now. Even with no weight it still somehow gives a lot of steering feedback to the driver and is well weighted.

Surprisingly there is so much less understeer than than 3 series and compared to our 1 series it feels like understeer doesn't exist at all. Before driving the Porsche i honestly thought i had dialled out most of the understeer with the ARBS and the alignment. Also it is much more comfortable around town than the 335i. I would say the 3 is better as a motorway mile muncher though.

The noise is amazing, the sports exhaust is a must on these. Not even sure how to describe it.... Deep, off-key, throaty. The induction noise and exhaust note are fantastic at any RPM. For me the V8 M3 sounds better but only after 6500rpm-ish.

The grip is unreal and is something i am still having to get used to. I can brake massively later and accelerate much earlier than in the 3. You really have to tell yourself ' YES YOU CAN APPLY THE POWER NOW' this particularly applies to the wet. You have to be a little more progressive with the throttle but you not held back in the same way as you are with 425ft/lbs in the 3.


Internal space is fine for me and the wife. We have managed to do all of our usual stuff in this car no problems. It fits a normal large suitcase in the front + 2 small cases on the rear bench.


Point to point across town in normal traffic the mapped 3 is probably quicker. After 80mph or so the Porsche is leagues ahead of the 3. The brakes offer much more in terms of stopping power, the steering is amazing, its not in anyway nervous at the higher speeds. Something that i didn't feel the 3 was until driving the Porsche

What i miss in the 3 is turbo power across town. IMO turbos are great on road cars. It gives so much tuning potential but more importantly it makes them so much easy to drive day to day.
Not having to drop 1 maybe 2 cogs before over taking is nice.
The only downside to that was with the JB4 the boost came in hard and early in the rev range and made wet driving extremely challenging. Obviously if its not mapped i'm sure the problem is less. Oh and the brake feature o the cruise control was nice

I wouldn't say a porsche is for everyone. It requires more effort and concentration to drive quickly than other cars. It has some quirks and takes time to get used to. It's not even much quicker than cars like the 335i in normal driving BUT its somehow very special

So for me the 'forced' change and the 4 weeks of stress are all worth it. The Porsche hasn't disappointed in anyway.

In terms of .
The Porsche was obviously a lot more to buy initially.
Servicing is actually similar to the 3 as its every 20k or 2 years. I will be doing an oil change in-between the official services, as i don't like the thought of 20k mile old oil in a car. Service parts are similar except the brakes which are expensive in comparison. But that will only cost about 70.
Insurance went up 160 a year. Tax is less @ 270. Even with a new engine the MPG is slightly better over 1000 mixed miles i'm averaging just over 20MPG whereas the 3 was about 18-20MPG.

Last edited by DarkAnt335i; 12-26-2012 at 06:38 AM.
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      12-26-2012, 06:37 AM   #2
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I miss my Porker - I had a PSE on my C4S Cab, sounded fantastic. Your car looks fantastic. I will have another one day, next time it will be a Turbo cab.

What was wrong with the original engine? Was it RMS failure or cylinder wear? The lesson here s making sure you have an OPC warranty!
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      12-26-2012, 06:40 AM   #3
DarkAnt335i
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It has got OPC warranty. It was bought from Porsche. The problem was they claimed it had been over revved during my ownership hence the warranty was void. But infact when they calculated back it may not have been me that over-revved it at all as it was done on the day i picked it up. I collected at 4:30 that day. After the review it turned out that the damaged had nothing to do with over-revs anyway. If you get a chance have a read through the 911 post.

Scored bore and piston and something to do with a small end bearing. Oh and cat had burned through.

The wife wants the turbo next. I want a GT3 but the Turbo is probably the right choice.
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      12-26-2012, 07:00 AM   #4
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Did you also post up the horror story on Pistonheads? I remember reading it a few months ago and was shocked to read what had happened.

Your 911 is stunning and in the exact spec that I'd go for.
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      12-26-2012, 07:00 AM   #5
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So did you over rev it? You said it MAY not have been in your ownership :-)
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      12-26-2012, 07:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i View Post
It has got OPC warranty. It was bought from Porsche. The problem was they claimed it had been over revved during my ownership hence the warranty was void. But infact when they calculated back it may not have been me that over-revved it at all as it was done on the day i picked it up. I collected at 4:30 that day. After the review it turned out that the damaged had nothing to do with over-revs anyway. If you get a chance have a read through the 911 post.

Scored bore and piston and something to do with a small end bearing. Oh and cat had burned through.

The wife wants the turbo next. I want a GT3 but the Turbo is probably the right choice.
Sorry, I did realise you bought from an OPC, it is just a general point I was making about the peace of mind from having an OPC warranty.

When I get a chance I will read your thread on 911uk.....
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      12-26-2012, 07:51 AM   #7
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Within a month of buying my Porsche I was being quoted 1500 for a new clutch and flywheel. They paid, but my experience was sullied and I won't be quick to trust Porsche again.

It's a shame really, as I love them. Great looking car you have.

Matt
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      12-26-2012, 07:51 AM   #8
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Good to hear it was fixed.

I can only imagine the panic facing that kind of bill.

Whatever happened to rev limiters?

Surely a 911 engine should be able to handle some stick?

Sounds to me that the previous owner might have known there was something wrong and got rid of it since it only lasted 300 miles more.
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      12-26-2012, 09:00 AM   #9
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Thanks.

No I 100% did not over rev it. What they claim is a mechanical over rev 'miss-shift' occurred. Timed at 7 ignitions which apparently equates to .006 of a second. So the reason i say may is, when it was put like that I said although I have no recollection of missing a shift how can I be 100% when it would be inconceivable to me. Essentially I would have to of gone from 3 at say 95mph back into 2nd by mistake but then dumped the clutch and disengaged the gear all within .006 of a second. Very unlikely. On top of the fact i knew i hadn't missed a shift or driven the car particularly hard? I do know is the car was driven to the 'detailers' before I collected the car and I argued how do i not know it was them?

The issue of durability was another argument I made. How can .006 over rev cause such a failure, even if it was me that did it. They actually agreed but said their terms state no warranty if there are any revs in range 3+ regardless of who did it. Thankfully after much discussion the had the techs look at the internal damage + the fact a vario-cam sensor had failed and a cat and worked out it was damage sustained over time rather than .0006.
I had actually spoken to some Porsche specialist who also agreed Porsche were trying it on. The problems with the engine are well know issues with bore/cylinder wear and are not related to over revving at all.
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      12-26-2012, 09:02 AM   #10
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Brilliant review!!!! .....We need more of this on here!!!!....

Lovely car!!!...
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      12-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #11
DarkAnt335i
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Thanks.

All I need to do now is convince the wife she doesn't want the 1series anymore so I can trade it in for the M.... so I can provide an m3 vs c2s vs 335 vs 1 series review don't think it will happen somehow.
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      12-26-2012, 09:23 AM   #12
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Great read. However, I reviews like these are bloody dangerous as you start to think about what car you fancy next...
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      12-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #13
DarkAnt335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina-d3 View Post
Did you also post up the horror story on Pistonheads? I remember reading it a few months ago and was shocked to read what had happened.

Your 911 is stunning and in the exact spec that I'd go for.
Thanks

No, must be a similar story. I've only owned the car for 5 weeks only got it back last Thursday. Also I only posted on the 911 forum
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      12-26-2012, 10:23 AM   #14
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Nice car, I read through your post an that must have been pretty scary. I know a couple of people that work for Porsche and those 997 gen 1's are known to be a bit fragile. Have to admit I am glad I have a pdk gen 2 although I will be selling mine next year. Someone will get a cracking 997 gen 2 for very good money :-)
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      12-26-2012, 12:53 PM   #15
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Good write up Ant and glad your finally sorted.

Like you I'm feeling an itch no my 335 is on its way out. Seen a really nice 997 PDK http://www.sascron.co.uk/porsche-911...pshire-2525675

Also thinking about a more sedate e350 coupe but always wanted a B3 and do love the 640d... I'm on my third BM in a row, so feeling a change is needed and the 911 has always been an itch.....
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      12-26-2012, 01:18 PM   #16
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Ant, I just finished reading your thread on 911uk - scary stuff! Very good news that Porsche paid out. I was most amused by the guy who thinks touching the limiter on the way up means you're a boy racer with no mechanical sympathy who's clearly trying to kill the engine...
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      12-26-2012, 02:12 PM   #17
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is this a cue for some gratuitous 997 pictures?

(oh how I miss this machine...)



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      12-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #18
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Thanks for a great review!! Seems it feels similar as my E46 M3 compared to my previous 335d, it's a sports car and feels like it in every way.

I have not read your link but I presume the car wa previously over rev'd and spun a shell ruining the engine?

Surely you would have heard the knocking before you bought it?
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      12-26-2012, 03:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblee View Post
Ant, I just finished reading your thread on 911uk - scary stuff! Very good news that Porsche paid out. I was most amused by the guy who thinks touching the limiter on the way up means you're a boy racer with no mechanical sympathy who's clearly trying to kill the engine...
Is the maximum power on a 335i like 5-5.5k though Sean, so you are eating time revving to your limiter, on something like an M3 maximum power is actually made just before the limiter (like mine 8k and lim 8.1)
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      12-26-2012, 04:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i View Post
Thanks.

No I 100% did not over rev it. What they claim is a mechanical over rev 'miss-shift' occurred. Timed at 7 ignitions which apparently equates to .006 of a second. So the reason i say may is, when it was put like that I said although I have no recollection of missing a shift how can I be 100% when it would be inconceivable to me. Essentially I would have to of gone from 3 at say 95mph back into 2nd by mistake but then dumped the clutch and disengaged the gear all within .006 of a second. Very unlikely. On top of the fact i knew i hadn't missed a shift or driven the car particularly hard? I do know is the car was driven to the 'detailers' before I collected the car and I argued how do i not know it was them?

The issue of durability was another argument I made. How can .006 over rev cause such a failure, even if it was me that did it. They actually agreed but said their terms state no warranty if there are any revs in range 3+ regardless of who did it. Thankfully after much discussion the had the techs look at the internal damage + the fact a vario-cam sensor had failed and a cat and worked out it was damage sustained over time rather than .0006.
I had actually spoken to some Porsche specialist who also agreed Porsche were trying it on. The problems with the engine are well know issues with bore/cylinder wear and are not related to over revving at all.
Very poor service by Porsche!...I hate it when dealers "try it on".
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      12-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
Is the maximum power on a 335i like 5-5.5k though Sean, so you are eating time revving to your limiter, on something like an M3 maximum power is actually made just before the limiter (like mine 8k and lim 8.1)
Yep, indeed - no need for me to go anywhere near the limiter on my car. The guy on the Porsche forum was having a go because Ant said he hit the limiter a couple of times - IMHO it's fine to run up to the limiter every so often, so long as you're not doing it on every single shift.
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      12-26-2012, 05:24 PM   #22
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Thanks for the write up Ant comparing the 335i to the Porsche. I am pleased you got it sorted. I have been wanting to know what fellow members think between the two.

From my limited experience comparing a 911 and an Alpina B3 BT has been on the track and I confess that I was a little underwhelmed with the 911 Carrera road holding, I expected more, especially to what the press say about them. I found that the Alpina was faster through the corners and acceleration (it could be the two 911 drivers which were on the track same time as me were totally crap drivers ).

It may be that the Alpina has the upper edge as comparing the 335i to the Carrera Porsche.

Don't get me wrong the Porsche 911 is a fantastic car, however I need a coupe with 4 adult seats so this limits my options.
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