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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vargas Turbo Stage 2 / 3 update



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      12-27-2012, 01:21 PM   #23
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I like the rear flange jigging tacked onto the engine stand: innovative.
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      12-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #24
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It would be great if the stage 3 was compatible with some of the aftermarket FMICs like the Helix or others. I think a lot of people in the market for this are already FBO.It would help keep the price down and as a result more people would go this route.
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      12-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #25
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Keep up the good work!
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      12-27-2012, 02:00 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juicer
It would be great if the stage 3 was compatible with some of the aftermarket FMICs like the Helix or others. I think a lot of people in the market for this are already FBO.It would help keep the price down and as a result more people would go this route.
Not sure where the info came from that it wouldn't it be? It will be compatible with every front mount intercooler and all stock and aftermarket exhausts that use the standard dual 2.5" inlets. We are well aware most people are FBO. Building a kit that doesn't utilize as many of the existing upgrades as possible doesn't make much sense from a business or implementation standpoint.
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      12-27-2012, 02:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Not sure where the info came from that it wouldn't it be? It will be compatible with every front mount intercooler and all stock and aftermarket exhausts that use the standard dual 2.5" inlets. We are well aware most people are FBO. Building a kit that doesn't utilize as many of the existing upgrades as possible doesn't make much sense from a business or implementation standpoint.
But again you dont think it would be too restrictive? All the parts were meant for the stock turbos and I would feel that the piping would be to small
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      12-27-2012, 02:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cleex024
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Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Not sure where the info came from that it wouldn't it be? It will be compatible with every front mount intercooler and all stock and aftermarket exhausts that use the standard dual 2.5" inlets. We are well aware most people are FBO. Building a kit that doesn't utilize as many of the existing upgrades as possible doesn't make much sense from a business or implementation standpoint.
But again you dont think it would be too restrictive? All the parts were meant for the stock turbos and I would feel that the piping would be to small
No we do not. People are running dual 2.5" aftermarket exhaust with over 600HP. This discussion is rather moot, if you are in the market for a kit like this you are not running a stock exhaust system. This kit is capable of supporting between 600-900HP depending on turbo options. To reach anywhere near these numbers MANY things needs to be upgraded. That goes without saying.
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      12-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #29
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No we do not. People are running dual 2.5" aftermarket exhaust with over 600HP. This discussion is rather moot, if you are in the market for a kit like this you are not running a stock exhaust system. This kit is capable of supporting between 600-900HP depending on turbo options. To reach anywhere near these numbers MANY things needs to be upgraded. That goes without saying.
That is the truth, fuel pump, suspension and most important LSD possible tranny upgrade and 1/2 shafts if there is one. I Have RB's and break traction at over 100 mph without a LSD LOL!! With these.....wow!!

Looks great man!!
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      12-27-2012, 03:35 PM   #30
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Not sure if it has been discussed before...what's the differences between Vargas S2 and RB turbos in terms of configuration/specification and performance?

I'm in the market of upgrading twin and I would like to wait and see the S2 performance before making decisions.
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      12-27-2012, 03:40 PM   #31
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Not sure if it has been discussed before...what's the differences between Vargas S2 and RB turbos in terms of configuration/specification and performance?

I'm in the market of upgrading twin and I would like to wait and see the S2 performance before making decisions.
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      12-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #32
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That is the truth, fuel pump, suspension and most important LSD possible tranny upgrade and 1/2 shafts if there is one. I Have RB's and break traction at over 100 mph without a LSD LOL!! With these.....wow!!

Looks great man!!
Check your alignment, something is wrong. I drove a friend's E90M3 with 683whp and 450wtq, and his has no problem hooking at 60. Hitting an expansion joint and seeing the DSC light flash doesn't count.

Tony, good progress, looking forward to seeing these continue to develop!
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      12-27-2012, 03:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
That is the truth, fuel pump, suspension and most important LSD possible tranny upgrade and 1/2 shafts if there is one. I Have RB's and break traction at over 100 mph without a LSD LOL!! With these.....wow!!

Looks great man!!
Check your alignment, something is wrong. I drove a friend's E90M3 with 683whp and 450wtq, and his has no problem hooking at 60. Hitting an expansion joint and seeing the DSC light flash doesn't count.

Tony, good progress, looking forward to seeing these continue to develop!
m3 comes with a killer lsd. thats why
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      12-27-2012, 04:06 PM   #34
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m3 comes with a killer lsd. thats why
LSD has nothing to do with it...it doesn't create magical grip. On a flat, straight, well paved road, a LSD isn't doing squat. It only helps when one wheel is being oversped under load and the other isn't. I'll make a more relevant comparison. My car makes very similar TQ numbers to what RBs put down (491). And with PSSes, open diff and stock rear suspension, I never had a problem putting down power at 60mph, even 40mph, as long as the temps are above 40. If you are getting "wheelspin" at 100mph, 60mph, you are either feeling the flimsy rear toe arms/subframe bushings and perceiving their weakness/floatiness as wheelspin, a colossally screwed up alignment, an inability to drive, you hit a massive expansion gap, or some combination thereof.

Now back on topic.
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      12-27-2012, 04:35 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6
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Originally Posted by longliven54 View Post
m3 comes with a killer lsd. thats why
LSD has nothing to do with it...it doesn't create magical grip. On a flat, straight, well paved road, a LSD isn't doing squat. It only helps when one wheel is being oversped under load and the other isn't. I'll make a more relevant comparison. My car makes very similar TQ numbers to what RBs put down (491). And with PSSes, open diff and stock rear suspension, I never had a problem putting down power at 60mph, even 40mph, as long as the temps are above 40. If you are getting "wheelspin" at 100mph, 60mph, you are either feeling the flimsy rear toe arms/subframe bushings and perceiving their weakness/floatiness as wheelspin, a colossally screwed up alignment, an inability to drive, you hit a massive expansion gap, or some combination thereof.

Now back on topic.
I have baby 245s on my 135 that's on 100% e85, needless to say I'm getting an LSD, and hopefully some wider wheels and rubber
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      12-27-2012, 04:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post
LSD has nothing to do with it...it doesn't create magical grip. On a flat, straight, well paved road, a LSD isn't doing squat. It only helps when one wheel is being oversped under load and the other isn't. I'll make a more relevant comparison. My car makes very similar TQ numbers to what RBs put down (491). And with PSSes, open diff and stock rear suspension, I never had a problem putting down power at 60mph, even 40mph, as long as the temps are above 40. If you are getting "wheelspin" at 100mph, 60mph, you are either feeling the flimsy rear toe arms/subframe bushings and perceiving their weakness/floatiness as wheelspin, a colossally screwed up alignment, an inability to drive, you hit a massive expansion gap, or some combination thereof.

Now back on topic.
+1 The man knows what he's talking about.
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      12-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #37
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Great work Tony...

Again to my previous question because I'd be interested in further custom tunability and parts....

I'd assume it would be just as easy to run a single pipe DP so that I could attach a custom straight through exhaust.

Single pipe is usually less weight and more open flowing without getting a open/close valve at the DP. The pipe your running on that current DP looks to be a 4", but I could be wrong.

I'd imagine you'd see some nice gains even at maintaining a 3" straight through pipe instead of tapering to meet the stock exhaust.

Just asking out of my own curiousty.
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      12-27-2012, 04:48 PM   #38
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i would hate to be the person trying to install those 5 bolt downpipes!! why not vband for easier install?
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      12-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post
LSD has nothing to do with it...it doesn't create magical grip. On a flat, straight, well paved road, a LSD isn't doing squat. It only helps when one wheel is being oversped under load and the other isn't. I'll make a more relevant comparison. My car makes very similar TQ numbers to what RBs put down (491). And with PSSes, open diff and stock rear suspension, I never had a problem putting down power at 60mph, even 40mph, as long as the temps are above 40. If you are getting "wheelspin" at 100mph, 60mph, you are either feeling the flimsy rear toe arms/subframe bushings and perceiving their weakness/floatiness as wheelspin, a colossally screwed up alignment, an inability to drive, you hit a massive expansion gap, or some combination thereof.

Now back on topic.
I agree for the most part but with all due respect, there are not many flat straight and well paved roads in this country. In fact, I dont know of any LOL.

My 335i spun 40 rolls like it's job, and sometimes on uneven surfaces it would break loose shifting into 3rd.

Keeping that in mind, my Vette with a real LSD doesn't have any problems. Once you drive a car with a real LSD you wonder why you waited so long if you had the opportunity to upgrade.

The car is much more predictable and consistent, and you dont need to worry about finding that perfect road if you want to hook up well.

When it does get a little loose, it's easy to dial back in as it's not throwing power around to one wheel or the other.

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      12-27-2012, 05:42 PM   #40
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Dont rush Tony , its winter now

At least that is my situation... its really tempting to go all crazy and aim for the stage 3 , but I am afraid your cost alone will not be enough to keep the car reliable

Transmission upgrade for everyone with AT and serious clutch upgrade for the MT...
Shafts needs upgrading
Dual oilcoolers maybe ?
Fuel supply upgrade ?
What else ?

I think I will be happy with the stage 2 , but I really want the stage 3 ...
but when will it end ?

I know I spent 20 000$ on various mods and upgrades on my car ... and more is ongoing.... my girlfriend stopped being jealous of other girls that I talk to , she have her enemy # 1 , my car , gets way too much attention she says ... calm down I say , almost done
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      12-27-2012, 07:54 PM   #41
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will it fit an XI thats my only question
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This..
That...
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      12-27-2012, 10:25 PM   #42
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can this kit be installed with the engine and cradle still in the car ? also and estimate on kit pricing ? looks beastly !
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      12-27-2012, 10:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
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But again you dont think it would be too restrictive? All the parts were meant for the stock turbos and I would feel that the piping would be to small
Dual 2.5" can flow a lot more than people who market 3" downpipes on here have lead a lot of people to believe. I believe the # was 250cfm of flow per 100hp. In theory using estimated values dual 2.5" should flow 463hp with absolute ease, but the upper limit of what it can flow without impeding performance significantly is higher. There's too many other factors like thermal expansion, types of bends, max rpm which can skew these #'s.
As a side note my buddies car runs mid 9's on dual 2.5" in a car with similar weight to ours, so it seems to be doing well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post
LSD has nothing to do with it...it doesn't create magical grip. On a flat, straight, well paved road, a LSD isn't doing squat. It only helps when one wheel is being oversped under load and the other isn't. I'll make a more relevant comparison. My car makes very similar TQ numbers to what RBs put down (491). And with PSSes, open diff and stock rear suspension, I never had a problem putting down power at 60mph, even 40mph, as long as the temps are above 40. If you are getting "wheelspin" at 100mph, 60mph, you are either feeling the flimsy rear toe arms/subframe bushings and perceiving their weakness/floatiness as wheelspin, a colossally screwed up alignment, an inability to drive, you hit a massive expansion gap, or some combination thereof.

Now back on topic.
Refreshing post Too many people on this forum glorify an LSD without understanding how it works and what it's actual purpose is, especially with the wavetrac genre.

Side note: 335i Rear subframe bushings = made of spaghetti

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Keeping that in mind, my Vette with a real LSD doesn't have any problems. Once you drive a car with a real LSD you wonder why you waited so long if you had the opportunity to upgrade.
:
Seeing that you mention REAL LSD, do you consider the popular choices for the n54 a REAL LSD?
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      12-27-2012, 10:54 PM   #44
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That...
Extremely doubtful it will fit an XI or RHD. Its a squeeze to fit as is. Also you should not have to remove engine to install. We suggest subframe removal for ANY turbocharger swap, stock, upgraded, anything. The job can not really be done properly leaving it in place let alone someone trying to do it their driveway. For this kit it will need to be installed by a qualified technician. This is not a project you want to do in your garage or driveway. With that said we are taking every effort to make sure it installs as easy as possible.
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