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      12-26-2012, 06:35 PM   #1
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E92 335i - Track Suspension Advice Needed

The Car: 2007 e92 335i 6MT with sport package

The Goal:
This is my daily driver so I want to maintain a comfortable ride as much as possible. I currently attend autocross events about 7-8 times a year and plan to start doing track days probably about twice a year.

The Plan (so far):
First and foremost I'm getting a new set of tires in the spring and am going with either Dunlop Star Specs or Hankook RS-3 non-runflats. Which brings up my first question. Will switching from run-flats to non-runflats mess with the ride quality at all? I feel like it will be alot less stiff and decrease handling performance if left alone.

Next thing on my list is to upgrade to M3 Front Control Arms (Tension Strut and Lower link)

Then, Either M3 front and rear sway bars or the one that hotchis offers. Would like to hear opinions on which one you guys feel would give me what I'm after.

Eventually, would like to do M3 Rear subframe bushings, rear guide rod, and rear upper links but will probably hold off on these for now.

Now the tricky part that I have no idea where to even begin. What suspension to get. I dont want to spend over $1k on the suspension (not including all the bits mentioned above) so I think any coilover kits would be out of the picture, and would most likely be looking for a spring & damper combo.

Any advice is welcome and if I left something out let me know

Thanks!

BTW, I have searched around and thats why I decided on the M3 control arms at the very least, I couldnt find any real definitive answers on any of the other components. Saw a lot of stuff for E90's but not E92's and am not sure how much difference there is between the 2.
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      12-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #2
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why not a used set of coilovers.....?? theres lots in the FS section for 800-1250.

shocks/spring combo's will never compete with a good set of KW v2/3's
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      12-27-2012, 08:29 PM   #3
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Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't really consider that as an option. After looking into it seems the KW V2's will best suit my needs. I'll keep my eyes open in the classifieds.

How's the rest of the plans sound? Any suggestions as far as sway bars go?
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      12-27-2012, 10:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC441 View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't really consider that as an option. After looking into it seems the KW V2's will best suit my needs. I'll keep my eyes open in the classifieds.

How's the rest of the plans sound? Any suggestions as far as sway bars go?
1. Camber plates, light weight wheels and and 255 or 265 square set-up
2. LSD and subframe bushings
3. Suspension (dampers, springs, bits)

Sway bars can decrease your performance if not chosen correctly with the rest of your suspension. They are just one of the variables in the suspension system. Take your time and read read read and talk to people at HPDEs. It is better to drive your car as is at one or two HPDE and then make improvements based on that baseline.

GL
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      12-27-2012, 10:50 PM   #5
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I would skip all the M3 bits and go right for better dampers/springs. TC Kline might be within range.

Consider Michelin Pilot Super Sports. A tad expensive but they really are "super" in every way (except maybe in the snow ). Hankook RS3 sucks in non-dry conditions. PSS is also quieter and lasts longer.
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      12-27-2012, 10:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTurNaL 330i View Post
1. Camber plates, light weight wheels and and 255 or 265 square set-up
2. LSD and subframe bushings
3. Suspension (dampers, springs, bits)

Sway bars can decrease your performance if not chosen correctly with the rest of your suspension. They are just one of the variables in the suspension system. Take your time and read read read and talk to people at HPDEs. It is better to drive your car as is at one or two HPDE and then make improvements based on that baseline.

GL
You can fit 255's in front? I thought most I could go without rolling the fenders was 235.
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      12-27-2012, 10:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ421 View Post
I would skip all the M3 bits and go right for better dampers/springs. TC Kline might be within range.

Consider Michelin Pilot Super Sports. A tad expensive but they really are "super" in every way (except maybe in the snow ). Hankook RS3 sucks in non-dry conditions. PSS is also quieter and lasts longer.
I was actually considering the Michelins at first but heard the Star Specs and RS3's perform better at AutoX. Since this is my daily maybe I'll have to reconsider though if the rs3's really are crap in the wet.
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      12-27-2012, 11:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC441 View Post
You can fit 255's in front? I thought most I could go without rolling the fenders was 235.
Sure you can just get camber plates. It is the single best mod for track. You will add a ton of grip in front and can even use the same wheels to run R comps down the road, also 255 square. This is exactly why you need to attend HPDE first and learn what is possible and makes sense. Also, you should check out Tracking section and Apex wheel threads.
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      12-28-2012, 02:20 AM   #9
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LSD before suspension I think.
Completely different car at autox after the LSD, had to relearn a few things and how I drove.
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      12-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTurNaL 330i View Post
Sure you can just get camber plates. It is the single best mod for track. You will add a ton of grip in front and can even use the same wheels to run R comps down the road, also 255 square. This is exactly why you need to attend HPDE first and learn what is possible and makes sense. Also, you should check out Tracking section and Apex wheel threads.
Any suggestions on the Camber Plates? Wont this cause the front tires to wear unevenly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
LSD before suspension I think.
Completely different car at autox after the LSD, had to relearn a few things and how I drove.
I'd love one! Just don't have the funds to justify spending that much on one mod. It will probably come eventually just not at the moment.
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      12-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NokTurNaL 330i View Post
It is better to drive your car as is at one or two HPDE and then make improvements based on that baseline.
I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC441 View Post
You can fit 255's in front? I thought most I could go without rolling the fenders was 235.
Sure you can. I'm currently running on 255 square on 8.5" wheels, AND on stock suspension. I recently just went to Laguna Seca, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785024. It was a lot of fun.
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      12-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwong View Post
I agree with this.



Sure you can. I'm currently running on 255 square on 8.5" wheels, AND on stock suspension. I recently just went to Laguna Seca, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785024. It was a lot of fun.
Oh man I am jealous...can't wait for spring to arrive. Nice driving there!
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      12-28-2012, 07:51 PM   #13
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I am in a similar situation. I'm planning to start with the M3 control arms/torsion links plus rear subframe bushings. I was considering camber plates, but am concerned about NVH issues, as I won't compromise daily driver functionality. Is there an upgrade for the top bushings, without going to camber plates?
I think I'll leave sway bars until I fit an LSD. I like the idea of a square setup for autox - perhaps on 17s.
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      12-28-2012, 08:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC441 View Post
Any suggestions on the Camber Plates? Wont this cause the front tires to wear unevenly?
Not as long as your toe is set properly. You'll get very very little uneven wear. But as soon as you take the car to the track or auto-X, you'll kill the outsides of the tire anyway, totally negating any of the tiny wear on the insides that you'd get from running more negative camber.

so just get an alignment and don't worry about it
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      12-28-2012, 10:14 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manxman1950 View Post
I am in a similar situation. I'm planning to start with the M3 control arms/torsion links plus rear subframe bushings. I was considering camber plates, but am concerned about NVH issues, as I won't compromise daily driver functionality. Is there an upgrade for the top bushings, without going to camber plates?
I think I'll leave sway bars until I fit an LSD. I like the idea of a square setup for autox - perhaps on 17s.
I have Vorshlag plates and did not notice NVH impact. Also consider Ground Control plates. Either one is fine.

I have Apex ARC-8 17/9.5 square, super light @ 17lbs and concave.

GL
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      12-28-2012, 10:18 PM   #16
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Does anyone like the 265 235 staggered setup at track, I am rigging 235 square nitto invos and feel like I can use a little more rear traction, even with an LSD.

This thread belongs in the tracking section.
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      12-29-2012, 02:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwong
Sure you can. I'm currently running on 255 square on 8.5" wheels, AND on stock suspension. I recently just went to Laguna Seca, http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=785024. It was a lot of fun.
Are these 18x8.5? Also what's the offset. I currently have VMR V718 wheels that are 18x8.5 ET35 in front and 18x9.5 ET33 in rear. Will these fit with 255's on the front? I know they will in the rear since that's what's on there now.
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      12-29-2012, 11:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotorocious View Post
LSD before suspension I think.
Completely different car at autox after the LSD, had to relearn a few things and how I drove.

LSD is huge. Unless OP turns no corners.

What I did is expensive, but yields a delightful daily driver and track performer. Do in stages if you wish - LSD before rear M sway, please!

Remarkably smooth handling with unending grip, 2.5 camber, if you can tolerate tire life. You should learn how to do precision alignments! Equip available from racing sites - highly recommended - you may want diff setup for street than track. Camber plates a great blessing.

.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 12-29-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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      12-29-2012, 02:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
LSD is huge. Unless OP turns no corners.

What I did is expensive, but yields a delightful daily driver and track performer. Do in stages if you wish - LSD before rear M sway, please!

Remarkably smooth handling with unending grip, 2.5 camber, if you can tolerate tire life. You should learn how to do precision alignments! Equip available from racing sites - highly recommended - you may want diff setup for street than track. Camber plates a great blessing.

.
I really want an LSD just cant afford it at the moment. $1600+installation is a little out of my price range even though I know it would help tremendously. Maybe in summer if funds permit. I'm due for new summer tires when spring arrives as mine are pretty worn out. That being said I really like the idea of going with a square set up as so many have suggested and think I am going to go that route first and add other bits as I gain experience.

One thing I noticed was that Vorshlag sells different camber plates depending on if you are running stock suspension or coilovers. That being said does it make sense for me to just suck it up and get the KW V2 Coilovers I want to get eventually and the corresponding camber plates now? Would hate to have to buy a second set of camber plates down the road when I buy the coilovers.

Thanks for the advice so far guys, really great insight here! Keep the knowledge coming!
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      12-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #20
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What are the exact goals for the car? I can tell you right now if you want a successful platform for autox the 335i isnt going to compete well in any class. It can't fit enough tire, it's too heavy, and the competition is too high (STI, Evo, etc.)

Vorshlag camber plates have great reviews, generally favored by those doing double duty (street + track). Ground Control plates offer a wider range of settings but tend to be noisier.

If I were you I'd wait to do your suspension tuning all at once. Learn to drive the car as it is... Save money for disposables like tires, brakes, fluids etc. once you've got that figured out and it's truly the car that's holding you back then drop money on everything and tweak to your liking. If you're like me you'll realize the 335i isn't going to meet your goals and youll buy a dedicated car... If you're a junkie like me ;-)
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      12-29-2012, 06:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoosyJoos View Post
What are the exact goals for the car? I can tell you right now if you want a successful platform for autox the 335i isnt going to compete well in any class. It can't fit enough tire, it's too heavy, and the competition is too high (STI, Evo, etc.)

Vorshlag camber plates have great reviews, generally favored by those doing double duty (street + track). Ground Control plates offer a wider range of settings but tend to be noisier.

If I were you I'd wait to do your suspension tuning all at once. Learn to drive the car as it is... Save money for disposables like tires, brakes, fluids etc. once you've got that figured out and it's truly the car that's holding you back then drop money on everything and tweak to your liking. If you're like me you'll realize the 335i isn't going to meet your goals and youll buy a dedicated car... If you're a junkie like me ;-)
I suppose my goal is to have a car that is fun to drive as a daily driver that can also hold its own in autoX or on the track, afterall this is just a hobby of mine. This past summer I attended 6 AutoX events and I can honestly say by the end of the season I feel like I am getting close to the limit of the car. At first I would constantly understeer in corners, but as I gained experience I learned to control the understeer by both braking more and "shimmying" the wheel (slightly straighten out, turn in, slightly straighten out, turn in, etc). I want the car to go where I tell it to go, i feel like there is so much power under the hood waiting to be used but it just can't with the current setup.

When I first bought the car I was so stoked about all of the power that could easily be added to the engine, but after going to those autoX events I realized the car needed help in the handling area first and foremost.

A dedicated track car would be awesome, but I feel like that will end up costing me even more money than the few mods I had in mind for my car. I'm only looking to spend about 6k in mods at the max. To get a track car I'd have to spend close to that or more on just the car and would still need to modify that as well. Also, the fact that my fiance would flip her sh!t if I said I was getting another car (as a toy), and still have my motorcycle


To sum up this rant.... Will the wheels I have fit if I get 255/35-18 square with the addition of the camber plates? Can't wait for the summer to get here so the fun can begin!
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      12-29-2012, 06:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC441

To sum up this rant.... Will the wheels I have fit if I get 255/35-18 square with the addition of the camber plates? Can't wait for the summer to get here so the fun can begin!
My car with 245/35-18 fronts (PSS) fit really well on stock suspension with et38's. with camber plates and the right offset 255 or 265's should be no problem.
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